It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by veetwindfw
I have been lurking for a bit but I saw this thread and it's dear and near to my heart. Having been through the economic strife of the 70's 80's and now at present, I can tell you that folks blame the same things, and have the same habits. The only difference is the present day issue of personal debt. When I grew up in the projects in the 70's, no one had a credit card. Everyone had a tab at their favorite grocer and if they wanted a high ticket item it was layaway.
Parents didn't cave into little Jimmy for that $299 XBOX at $60 per game, and little Sally certanly didn't get the $450 dollar iPhone. Us kids were taking jobs as baggers at the grocers for tip money. Hell if we would had McDonald's all of us would have worked there. None of us got allowances. I didn't have the latest Baby Phat or FUBU clothes, but my mom always made sure my clothes were cleaned and pressed.
I guess since I was a kid I was instilled with the point that you made your own breaks, no one was going to do it for you. I grew around kids who were living in rent control yet their parents had lincolns and nice Oldsmobiles. At least 70% were on food stamps and welfare. Their parents would sit on the stoop and drink 40's and play dominos all day. My dad would point to them and tell me, you don't want to be like that because once Papi Sam was feeding you, you become too lazy to help yourself and you grow to like it. That was the 70's...sound familiar? We also had 'community organizers' that would just tell everyone that they should complain for more 'benefits"...again sound familiar?
Fast forward now..I worked hard, picked my shots, made some whopper mistakes but I blamed myself for them..not the goverment, not wall street, not Target or Apple, I did the research and picked a career that would always evolve [electronic engineering], I went to community schools always, never asked the goverment for any help, not ever a minoirty grant. If I didn't have the cash for something, I just didn't buy it or I saved until I could. I make a comfortable living. I only buy used lease return cars and keep them for at least 10 years. My cell phone is three years old. My wife went to community, took her while but she went to university and got a Master's, loan free. My kid is going to the local community college, has a 20+ hour a week job and has a Virgin Mobile pre-pay phone. I didn't suggest any of that, it was her decision.
I have a very nice house, I only bought what I could afford and moved to whre I could afford it, with a big down payment after saving for 10 years.
In summary, if you make your own decisions, you only have youself to praise/blame for your own success/failures.
Learn how to express yourself in full comprehensive language with no 'you kno wha- am sayin?" thrown in every three or four words. Look people in the eye when you speak to them. That shows pride in yourself as well as determination. This economic panic happens every 10-20 years, but it's the same folks that level things off again.
If you're mad at corporations? Stop paying for iTunes. Stop buying those $140 reebocks on foot locker credit.Do you really need the MWIII game? The economy is supposed to be really bad, yet Best Buy is packed today!
I was visiting home in lower east side a couple of weeks ago[I'm from Baruch Housing]NYC and went to see OWS,there were alot of folks with $4 Starbucks and iPods. More sleeping than protesting [it was 11AM]Nuff said on that observation.
If you're reading this and you don't have a job and it's between 9AM-5PM on a Monday..ask yourself if you shouldn't be somewhere else. Maybe volunteering at a school or taking some free webinars on technology?
Originally posted by Infrasilent
While I do have a great deal of sympathy for those struggling financially, I make a small exception for those trying to get out from under student loans. This is why:
In high school, I got excellent grades, had a job working 20 hours a week, and still managed to complete nearly a years worth of college coursework (Advanced Placement) before I ever applied to a university.
My peers derided me endlessly for my decision to attend a Cal State institution, because I grew up in an affluent area and no one could understand the fact that I wasn't going to spend in the tens of thousands of dollars per year simply for tuition. (I was generally considered one of the smart kids in school and apparently my decision did not sit well with them.) The deal with my parents basically was: we can pay for you to go to a cal state and anything else is on you.
I CHOSE to go to a cheaper, less "prestigious" (whatever that means anyway...) university because I could get a free ride, and if anything were to happen to my parents or their ability to pay I could conceivably support myself and continue my education.
At the end of the day, STUDENT LOANS ARE A CHOICE. No one forced anyone to get them. "SOCIETY" has nothing to do with it. Anyone who took them sure as hell made it harder on the rest of us though, because their retarded acceptance of ever-more ridiculous amounts of debt increased the cost of education for EVERYONE.
That said, I don't think the government has a right to hound people until the end of their days about these loans. If the economy has changed in such a way that one can't ever expect to pay, there should eventually be some way out from under them (like bankruptcy and settlement).
These loans are nothing but enslavement of the intellectual.
Originally posted by Propulsion
I call it living to ones means. People want their cake and eat it too. Can’t have everything in life because someone else has it. If you want something, than do what it takes to obtain it. Don’t expect anyone to give it to you for free. I so dislike the pity trips! Stand up and take control of your life! I went from an I.S. position that paid me 90k a year to a warehouse position unloading trailers for close to nothing. I don’t run around pouting like a baby! I had 130k in student loans. Paid them all off! There was a time in my life where I was down and out living on streets! I chose not to be there and made changes! In my opinion, some people are just too lazy! And then they cry about it when things don’t work out the way they want them too! I know everyone is not the same, but I also know everyone can do or be anything they want in life! My grandmother made a career change when she turned 62 years old. She hated her prior work and wanted to find happiness. She has no regrets...edit on 19-11-2011 by Propulsion because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SmArTbEaTz
Originally posted by Infrasilent
While I do have a great deal of sympathy for those struggling financially, I make a small exception for those trying to get out from under student loans. This is why:
In high school, I got excellent grades, had a job working 20 hours a week, and still managed to complete nearly a years worth of college coursework (Advanced Placement) before I ever applied to a university.
My peers derided me endlessly for my decision to attend a Cal State institution, because I grew up in an affluent area and no one could understand the fact that I wasn't going to spend in the tens of thousands of dollars per year simply for tuition. (I was generally considered one of the smart kids in school and apparently my decision did not sit well with them.) The deal with my parents basically was: we can pay for you to go to a cal state and anything else is on you.
I CHOSE to go to a cheaper, less "prestigious" (whatever that means anyway...) university because I could get a free ride, and if anything were to happen to my parents or their ability to pay I could conceivably support myself and continue my education.
At the end of the day, STUDENT LOANS ARE A CHOICE. No one forced anyone to get them. "SOCIETY" has nothing to do with it. Anyone who took them sure as hell made it harder on the rest of us though, because their retarded acceptance of ever-more ridiculous amounts of debt increased the cost of education for EVERYONE.
That said, I don't think the government has a right to hound people until the end of their days about these loans. If the economy has changed in such a way that one can't ever expect to pay, there should eventually be some way out from under them (like bankruptcy and settlement).
These loans are nothing but enslavement of the intellectual.
Okay that's good for you brainy smurf but not everyone is "advanced" and if we want an education we have to subside to taking a student loan. My mom was a college professor, EMT, ER nurse, volunteer fireperson and a paramedic, and she STILL could not afford to send me to school because she was raising me and my sister on her own. So for an "educated/advanced" dimwit like yourself to call people who want to better themselves retarded is way out of line.
Who cares that your parents said they would pay for you. Not everyone has the same opportunities as everyone else. I believe that is what the OP was trying to get across before you put your 2 cents in. You can't force people to understand things and make them smart. Some people just get things better than others. It's no one's fault. It's life. Yeah loans are slavery but so are credit cards and working 40 hrs a week.
The cliche of work hard to get where you want to be doesn't apply to everyone... some of my friends work 80-90 hrs a week and have no life. How can we live if we are working to work every minute of our lives?
Walk a mile in the other man's shoes before you cast down your judgement... At least then you can speak from experience instead of out of your @$$...
Originally posted by IblisLucifer
reply to post by Infrasilent
Mark my words the next bubble is student loans if you think the home mortgage industry was shady then you don't know much about student loans which follow you beyond the grave and bankruptcy cannot eliminate it. This with the fact that higher education which is for the most part basically a party kids just out of high school who are accumulating vast amounts of debt for a bachelor degree that may as well be a high school diploma because their are people with masters degrees working at Starbucks. More defaults will happen and erode the system with larger firms (like Goldman Sachs) taking over smaller one and making a killing betting against the bubble.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by whaaa
You seemed to be under the impression that corporations are expressly set up to hurt working men. For a product to sell at a reasonable, profitable market price, all the costs of production have to be taken into account, such as the cost of raw materials, electric required to power machines, etc. If the business fails, the product may not have been priced to sell competitively, or there may be other factors. When the cost of raw materials goes up, so must the cost to produce an item. When the cost of labor goes up, so does the product. Now, suddenly prices at the grocery store goes up.
Originally posted by FrenchOsage
reply to post by IblisLucifer
People are lazy in general, the fact is some are just better "Tom Sawyer" then others
That of course is true. It has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. I find myself becoming more irritated with you who suggest things clearly not relevant than those who argue nonsense.
No, working 40 hours a week is not slavery-- it's life. Even "rich" people work 40 hour weeks. 80-90 hours a week IS slavery, but no one needs to work that long on minimum wage to get by-- UNLESS you have a great deal of debts to pay, children to feed, or are saving for a better future. In any case, that is a CHOICE.