Compelling and Convincing Evidence that Life was Created! What Say You?

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Wait...are you claiming Neanderthals didn't exist? Really?

And of course only a small % of modern humans share a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA given that that species died out over 30,000 years ago and was also geographically limited to defined regions. Kinda hard to keep those traits if none of them are around anymore...we also don't have thick hair all over our bodies anymore, even though our ancestors did.

edit on 16-11-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

Yes they do exit in the imaginations of "evolutionists" unless it's a mistaken identity, after all they are just using fragments of bones to construct what we know as "Neanderthals".

And again it's still an unproven theory full of speculations.

"..this lends credence to the theory that Neanderthals and humans interbred between 50,000 and 80,000 years ago, after humans left Africa."

Unless you're really convinced that they exist and mated with humans.

Funny how so many people on both sides of the fence (Creationists and Evolutionists) think they know it all
"If Earth is destroyed, the "universe" won't cease to exist".

I know that 99% of you would make this statement and feel pretty confident about it but let me ask you all, do you know everything about everything to state that as fact? If not, then how do you "know"? Or do you think that you know enough about the true nature of the universe and this reality to make such a statement (Which would be even funnier than the whole Earth is Flat theory).

At the end of the day, we have not even scratching the surface on what exactly "reality" is and since everything we do and say is based on our perception of reality, we are doomed to think that we "KNOW".


IT--

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by MrXYZ
or that people really can live inside whales

LOL, I had forgotten all about that little tale in the bible. I can remember thinking, even as a kid, how on Earth did Jonah survive without being at least partially digested? I think I asked my teacher who promptly changed the subject....

The bible is full of parables; fictional-tales to teach or explain something. In the new testament, many of Jesus' teachings were intentionally in the form of parables. The Sower of Seeds for example found in the gospels of Luke, Mark, and Matthew, or the Parable of the Good Samaritan found in Luke.

The Book of Jonah is thousands of years older than Jesus. He was a prophet of God and/or Allah and his story is taught in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Who knows what was lost in the translations over the millenia? Maybe he was trapped in the belly of the beast which was perhaps the brig of the ship he stowed away on?

Perhaps it was simply a parable?

Or perhaps truth really is stranger than fiction?

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Wait...are you claiming Neanderthals didn't exist? Really?

And of course only a small % of modern humans share a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA given that that species died out over 30,000 years ago and was also geographically limited to defined regions. Kinda hard to keep those traits if none of them are around anymore...we also don't have thick hair all over our bodies anymore, even though our ancestors did.

edit on 16-11-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

Yes they do exit in the imaginations of "evolutionists" unless it's a mistaken identity, after all they are just using fragments of bones to construct what we know as "Neanderthals".

And again it's still an unproven theory full of speculations.

"..this lends credence to the theory that Neanderthals and humans interbred between 50,000 and 80,000 years ago, after humans left Africa."

Unless you're really convinced that they exist and mated with humans.

Now I'm not sure whether or not you're joking

Just fyi, it's not only fossils, but also DNA that clearly confirms Neanderthals existed. That and migratory trends...

I really hope you're joking. If not, please do some research because it's going to be hard taking you serious if you ignore basic facts like that

reply to post by edog11


Maybe you can tell us if the universe is destroyed will the earth cease to exist ? I site

Pasquels wager
Occums razor and
Murphys law.

At the end of the day, we have not even scratching the surface on what exactly "reality" is and since everything we do and say is based on our perception of reality, we are doomed to think that we "KNOW".

We don't know one millionth of 1% of anything...--Thomas Edison

I always find these thread fun to read, it's always like 2 blind people arguing over what color the sky is. Neither has solid tangible proof and can only go on what they have been told. Christians believe that God created everything because the bible tells them so. Scientists believe everything is a random coincidence but have zero proof either way and can only assume that it's random because they reject the Christians proof. Sadly I fear science will never be able to answer this question. In all honesty I would like to know how it all works but I know I couldn't ever understand it ALL. Soooooooo, what to believe. An all mighty God infinite in wisdom, power, and grace whom out of love created us and gave us a planet and an universe to explore. ORRRRR, a random sequence of events not only made intelligent life on one planet in our solar system and for all we KNOW the entire universe possible. I think that the question both sides should ask is why are we so poorly designed to live on this planet? I myself believe in God, that being said I love science and the pursuit of scientific proof and understanding of the world. I don't follow a religion, I live my life with standards, I'm kind to others and I make it a point to do the right thing. I'm thankful for my blessings and all that I have in my life and in some cases don't have. I don't spend my Sundays in church, or sing hymns to the lord, however I do pray to give thanks, and ask for the occasional thing here and there as well as ask for forgiveness. I'm interested in the answers scientists seek, as I said I love science, I crave the understanding of how things work. Science is noble work no matter how you spin it.
What came first the chicken or the egg? A more interesting question arises. Which came first—the commitment to naturalistic evolution and the necessity that animals arose from different animals, or the data to support it? ( www.icr.org... )

something fun to read

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by primus2012

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by MrXYZ
or that people really can live inside whales

LOL, I had forgotten all about that little tale in the bible. I can remember thinking, even as a kid, how on Earth did Jonah survive without being at least partially digested? I think I asked my teacher who promptly changed the subject....

The bible is full of parables; fictional-tales to teach or explain something. In the new testament, many of Jesus' teachings were intentionally in the form of parables. The Sower of Seeds for example found in the gospels of Luke, Mark, and Matthew, or the Parable of the Good Samaritan found in Luke.

The Book of Jonah is thousands of years older than Jesus. He was a prophet of God and/or Allah and his story is taught in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Who knows what was lost in the translations over the millenia? Maybe he was trapped in the belly of the beast which was perhaps the brig of the ship he stowed away on?

Perhaps it was simply a parable?

Or perhaps truth really is stranger than fiction?

Which explains why it's so ridiculous for people to take the Genesis account literally. Like, woman made from a rib, talking snakes, only 2 (one male and one female), and so on...it's all demonstrably nonsense if you take it literally. Which is exactly what those ignoring the theory of evolution do by the way

Yuck... what a disgusting piece of narrow minded propaganda.

The point they make out of a cell's need for a protein that also must have created itself at some point is as moot as the famous philosophical question: "What came first, the chicken or the egg" ?

The answer is simply: They both evolved into what they are at the same time, slowly, step my step forming into their current forms, simultaneously. Why is that concept so hard to grasp ?

Oh, and the "chance of this happening" argument is utterly useless. For all we know, there are 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ^ 999999999999999 universes and or dimensions, so it's bound to happen in one of them, and people will evolve in that particular universe and make lame assumptions, while all the others universes are void of anything resembling life.

That, or the universe has come into existence and collapsed again 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ^ 99999999999999999999999 times, and this particular time, by chance, life evolved. Again "intelligent" life pops into existence and starts making stupid assumptions.

Originally posted by NtSaint
Scientists believe everything is a random coincidence but have zero proof either way and can only assume that it's random

Um, what?

Science is based on observable evidence. There are museums you can visit and literally see with your own eyes the fossils of our ancestors lined up, you can "watch" them evolving in a way through the fossils.

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
reply to post by Atzil321

 

Its absurd to think that the universe will exist after the end?
Because the bible states otherwise.
But what it does say is that a new universe and earth will be made, but to do that, this evil one under sin has to be destroyed first, Thats why Jesus is coming back, to collect His sheep, so that after the end of this world, and we in are a place eternal in heaven, He can recreate us a new earth, free from sin, never to sin again, because the tempter would have been locked up, and new physics universe will be made, even better than the one we are in now.

But why do you believe the Bible over say...The Bhagavad Gita or some of the other religious texts...many of which predate both Christianity and Judaism? Oh wait...I know! Because unlike most other Religions, your God threatens you with Eternal Hell if you don't worship him! Better not even investigate any of these other texts...or listen to anything that might threaten your faith, not even science! Why if you lost your faith then your 'God of Love' will arrange for you to burn for all of Eternity!!! Oh No!

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
reply to post by Atzil321

 

Who said the world is 4000 years old? I heard it was 4001

......


No but seriously dont doubt the universe is billions of years old, Im positive that the creation of the universe was before the creation of earth.

But what i do believe is that with God time is not a factor, he has always been and always will, But literally the creation of earth was in 6 days. because there are 6 six days to a week and one day for the sabbath so 7 is for God, so 7 days in time on earth.


But what i do believe is that the earth is older that 4000 years, because the generation from adam to noah was over thousands of years, if there were 9 or 10 generations of Man, average life span about 900 years, thats easily 10,000 years, before mans days were cut to 120, so from noah to Jesus, is roughly 6000-7000 years maybe more, and from Christ to us 2011 years.

But i seriously believe the universe was created just for man, so that we can exist.

Your logic confuses and worries me.

God must have created the world in 6 days because there are 6 days to a week??? are you serious. that is the most illogical reasoning i have ever heard. first of all there are 7 days to a week. The fact that you use the last day for the sabath is just YOUR religious belief which has nothing to do with science. Thats like saying god exists because i believe in it. Thats just ridiculous.

Alright creationists, have fun explaining this:

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
reply to post by Atzil321

 

Its absurd to think that the universe will exist after the end?
Because the bible states otherwise.
But what it does say is that a new universe and earth will be made, but to do that, this evil one under sin has to be destroyed first, Thats why Jesus is coming back, to collect His sheep, so that after the end of this world, and we in are a place eternal in heaven, He can recreate us a new earth, free from sin, never to sin again, because the tempter would have been locked up, and new physics universe will be made, even better than the one we are in now.

But why do you believe the Bible over say...The Bhagavad Gita or some of the other religious texts...many of which predate both Christianity and Judaism? Oh wait...I know! Because unlike most other Religions, your God threatens you with Eternal Hell if you don't worship him! Better not even investigate any of these other texts...or listen to anything that might threaten your faith, not even science! Why if you lost your faith then your 'God of Love' will arrange for you to burn for all of Eternity!!! Oh No!

edit on 16-11-2011 by bhornbuckle75 because: fixed something

lol religion and logic are like oil and water. cursed to never mix

reply to post by Nosred


No full fossil record exists as proof if you know of such a page please link it for me.. FULL record please.

Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by NtSaint
Scientists believe everything is a random coincidence but have zero proof either way and can only assume that it's random

Um, what?

Science is based on observable evidence. There are museums you can visit and literally see with your own eyes the fossils of our ancestors lined up, you can "watch" them evolving in a way through the fossils.

Or as an alternative I can go straight to the Bible and realise that no one would go to so much trouble to lie.

Pain staking was the job of a scribe and they took their work very seriously.

lol religion and logic are like oil and water. cursed to never mix

Obviously. Therefore it's easy to reason God isn't worried about what is logical to you or our eyes.

Originally posted by edmc^2
So where did the "'system' already in place" came from in the first place if noone put there in the first place?

Is it chance or accident?

Chance and accident, basically the same thing. But yes, matter forms from vast amounts of dust and gas, explodes, implodes, scatters about, reassembles, and repeats. By 'already in place' i was stating the obvious that the universe around us, existed before we came into existence... i thought that was rather obvious too.

Originally posted by edmc^2
Or was there an Intelligent Source since the "'system' already in place" - shows organization and design.

Same as above.
But no, the universe does not show organization and design. Nature is full of repetition, it doesn't mean it was created by something or someone. Physics are a set of rules that nature must fit into, if there was no repetition, the (-our) universe would simply cease to exist, because without a certain set of rules nothing would happen.

Originally posted by edmc^2
Unless your saying that what were basing our creations from are unintelligent systems?

But how could that be since it require intelligence to create a system?

know what I mean?

Here is one example:

A natural formation, that on first viewing can be perceived that it was built by someone or something with "intelligence" ie; humans. But that is not the case.

It all depends how you define "intelligent". Nature can be "intelligent", but not in a sense that it has a mind of its own and can summon objects or "people" on demand.

It doesn't require intelligence to 'create a system'. An obvious example here is our own solar system... it just happens to be that our sun is dense enough to clump together vast amounts of dust and gas until they form planets, as they get pulled around the sun, it may almost seem like a clockwork device of some kind, though in reality its just this way, because this is how the physics in our own universe happen to be.

If i were to spin a yo-yo on a piece of string in a full circle, again and again.. .when you view it, would you believe that the yo-yo is intelligent because it keeps following the same path? Or would you believe that the yo-yo is attached to a piece of string, and just happens to keep going around and round because it has no choice to do anything else, as the physics of this universe are dictating its actions.

Here's a question, is gravity intelligent?

reply to post by NtSaint


humanorigins.si.edu...

Even without the fossil evidence, comparison of sequences alone (DNA, RNA, and proteins) and molecular phylogenetics analysis are enough to debunk any creationist claims and prove evolution.

The process of evolution by natural selection saves (i.e., conserves) important DNA coding sequences over vast expanses of geological time. Molecular analyses show that the proteins responsible for basic cell organization and function have truly ancient Precambrian origins. A highly conserved sequence is a strand of DNA in a gene that contains a sequence of nucleotides that is highly similar (i.e., homologous) across a wide range of organisms. Such highly conserved sequences code for proteins essential for survival, and have their origins in a common ancestor. Natural selection retains the sequence since adverse mutations would likely impair survival or reproductive function in the species. Among the most commonly conserved genome sequences are those that code for the sites where small molecules bind to protein receptors, often initiating gene transcription of RNA, and subsequent protein production. For example, the figure to the right depicts the primary estrogen estrodial (the small green molecule) attached to the binding domain of the estrogen protein nuclear receptor (the red ribbon). The estrogen receptor is found to be highly conserved in all extant vertebrate organisms and is essentially to endocrine system functioning in reproduction, development, and throughout life.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
If it's impossible to get something from absolutely nothing, then we live in an eternal evolutionary recurrance, framed by a fully informed akashic field, and thus "God" is everything, everywhere and always now and forever. If then we can become fully present to the eternally unfolding present moment in conscious awareness, without judgement, then we are already in God now, with God in us. The question then to the materialist monist (matter is primary) atheists, involves the notion that the first/last cause in the ongoing creative process, already always, is consciousness as the very fount of creativity, of which we are it's highest expression as self consciously aware beings with freedom, and in this way we are "made in the image of God" where God is the self aware being or ground of being and becoming underlying the outward physical appearance of a differentiated "world". Also, within a monistic idealist framework (consciousness, not matter is primary), all the quantum paradoxes are resolved satisfactorily, the only "issue" if there is one then being that the choosing self must therefore reside within a non-local, quantum holographic domain, as an uncaused cause. Intent of the will which gives rise to creative action then, if founded on love as a first cause, is synonymous with the creative will of God where love is the reason for the cause (causation).

"My food is to do the will of the one who sent me."

Christian fundamentalists need to break with the brainwashing, and then become Christian mystics.

The sceptic and the atheist is further along than the fundamentalist literalist, but definitely not as far as the mystic who is interested in the knowledge of spirtual experience, in the awareness and appreciation of the truth and the life and the reality, as it really is, now. In other words we are IN the evidence already, and are it, and are surrounded by it, and this in this way God's glory is plainly seen and thus we have no excuse. The "difficulty" of the materialist atheist however is that of a contemptuous bias, prior to, investigation, who's only certainty is that of keep a person in everlasting ignorance.

It is only a fool who says in his innermost heart of hearts "there is no God". That is also absurd.

So it's not an either/or proposition, but a both/end, currently framed by ignorance, on BOTH sides of the "debate".

bump largely ignored post. This is a silly debate, ridiculous and unneccessary. Evolution can't be used as an axe to grind against the Christian understanding of God.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by edog11

 

Maybe you can tell us if the universe is destroyed will the earth cease to exist ? I site

Pasquels wager
Occums razor and
Murphys law.

At the end of the day, we have not even scratching the surface on what exactly "reality" is and since everything we do and say is based on our perception of reality, we are doomed to think that we "KNOW".

We don't know one millionth of 1% of anything...--Thomas Edison

edit on 16-11-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

No I can't. That's my point. I can't honestly tell you that ANYGHING is 100% sure since my conscious "mind" is currently unable to deal with infinite knowledge. Maybe the universe will cease to exist if Earth gets blown up, and maybe not. I at least admit that I don't know what "reality" is and that there are a lot of things that I don't "know".


IT--

reply to post by Nosred


Holy crap adaptation is real ? Are you kidding me i never would've guessed.
That 's ok honey, we'll find a fish that lives in lakes or streams or one that flys.