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Military training and it's effect on humans

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posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by BIGPoJo
reply to post by Raivan31
 


Yes, everyone has equal potential. Why is it that some choose to be military men while others slob around on the couch?


Illogical.

Civilians have jobs too.

How the hell would people pay their electric bills or even buy a couch if they didn't get up and go to work??

Your cult programming is irrational and misleading.

Either we are good military soldiers or we are lazy couch slobs?
Debunked!




posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by BIGPoJo
reply to post by Raivan31
 


Yes, everyone has equal potential. Why is it that some choose to be military men while others slob around on the couch? At least the service men are contributing to society, the other does little to contribute. Yes, we all have equal potential but its what we do with that potential that matters.

The fact is, there are countries around the planet that would eviscerate America if we did not have a military presence. If we did not have cops, criminals would eviscerate the innocent with little regard. If we did not have correctional officers prisoners would do as they wish. I would rather live in a world where people with authority feel authoritative rather than a world with zero authority.

Do you enjoy the feeling of having to fight life or death for your family on a daily basis? If it was not for the militant authority that exists today then you would be fighting for survival on a daily basis.


Well of course thats all true but it's not what i'm talking about. It's what is currently deemed nessecary to provide these ends that bothers me.
If we were all soldiers what then?

God! it's not like i don't honour and respect service men and women. i have nothing but respect for them, so much that it kills me to watch them go through what they do.

Being civillian does NOT mean being lazy or useless. there are many roles to be filled in society and humanity as a whole and i think people on both sides often forget that we are part of the same group and society. We are all brothers and sisters.

If i am a lazy useless civillian then how have i managed to earn the love and respect of military personnel?

You seriously think that we can't all (well some of us anyway) learn what is taught during those six to eight weeks?



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Raivan31
 


No, not everyone can cut the mustard. Do some research and see how many people drop out of the various training phases of each branch. The Marines are proud and few for a reason, they have a high drop rate.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by BIGPoJo
At least the service men are contributing to society, the other does little to contribute.


Contribute what? We don't bomb enough villages to rubble? We don't bust into enough homes with guns drawn? We don't shoot enough bullets at live human targets?

Yeah civilians don't contribute right?
They don't run electric power grids, water purification plants, they don't build furniture or create clothing. They don't build houses nor do they build cars or airplanes.. etc etc.

Your posts are the essence of indoctrination into a false belief system, again I can debunk every little statement you say. Easily.

Shall I continue with paragraph two of your post? Sure why not...



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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My oldest daughter is in the Air Force Reserve. She was active duty until she married her high school sweetheart, who went into the Army.

Her mind was too tough for them to break, although they tried. She remains above the fray and is using it to her advantage by getting a bachelor's degree. I talked her into going in 5 years ago because she needed discipline and direction, and the Air Force gave her that. I am amazed that she remains the same sweet girl I raised.

Her husband, however, has become completely indoctrinated into Army culture. Before, he was a bit of an annoying know-it-all, smart but also a smartass, typical of many smart young people today. Now that he is flying helicopters, he has become a real jerk, with the sense of being better than the civilians, as the OP says. He has ditched all his civilian friends.

My step-daughter and her husband have been in the Army for 10 years now, and I find them to be absolutely insufferable to be around. They have a "holier than thou" attitude and are raising their boys in the same way. I dread holidays when they are involved, because of the way they strut around.

There has been a member of my family in every generation that has served in military service (here and in Europe) all the way back to the French Revolution, so I'm not knocking military service. I do, however, have a problem with this current military generation's world zeitgeist, in which they think their service makes them better, more special, and more able to act like jerks without being called on it.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by BIGPoJo
reply to post by Raivan31
 


No, not everyone can cut the mustard. Do some research and see how many people drop out of the various training phases of each branch. The Marines are proud and few for a reason, they have a high drop rate.


Like i said, my best friend spent several years as a military instructor, he has a very high standard that he expected out of his recruits and very few passed. My Brother was one of the people that did pass. I know the story, short of having done the basic myself i know as much as i could (not technical details mind, i want to make that clear, no one has talked out of school to me, i wouldn't allow it)



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 


My guess would be that the reserve's training is no where near as tough as the main training. It may interest readers to hear that most career service men and women have an opinion of reserves as being one notch above civillians and several notch's below themselves.

Not to take away from your daughters achievements sir but this is fact and might help to explain a bit of why she turned out how she did. if they don't break you then you don't pass.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by Raivan31
 


If it has to be explained, then it wont be understood.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Raivan31
 


If it has to be explained, then it wont be understood.


Illogical.

The only way to understand something is through explanation.

Gotta be kidding me!



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Raivan31
 


If it has to be explained, then it wont be understood.


Illogical.

The only way to understand something is through explanation.

Gotta be kidding me!


To try to explain it to someone like you, it does no good.
Not only to have a GIANT chip on your shoulder from the get go, the hostility blinds you to anything that I would present.
SO, no thanks.

To the OP? PM and we can discuss this.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Raivan31
 


If it has to be explained, then it wont be understood.


Illogical.

The only way to understand something is through explanation.

Gotta be kidding me!


To try to explain it to someone like you, it does no good.
Not only to have a GIANT chip on your shoulder from the get go, the hostility blinds you to anything that I would present.
SO, no thanks.

To the OP? PM and we can discuss this.



Ad-hominem cop outs do not suffice.
You cannot prove any points, you can only pretend that you could prove it had I not been "someone like me".

Perhaps there would be no chip on my shoulder if you actually had substance to back up the assertion?



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Raivan31
 


If it has to be explained, then it wont be understood.


Illogical.

The only way to understand something is through explanation.

Gotta be kidding me!


To try to explain it to someone like you, it does no good.
Not only to have a GIANT chip on your shoulder from the get go, the hostility blinds you to anything that I would present.
SO, no thanks.

To the OP? PM and we can discuss this.



Ad-hominem cop outs do not suffice.
You cannot prove any points, you can only pretend that you could prove it had I not been "someone like me".

Perhaps there would be no chip on my shoulder if you actually had substance to back up the assertion?


Blah Blah Blah. All you prove is that you have a "Word of the Day" calendar on your desk.
Can't even spell it correctly. [qoute] Ad-hominem .

But again, I will not argue this with someone that is deaf to anything not in agreement to their viewpoint.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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Check out this link.
Howcultswork.com

Read through this whole page and try and find one part that doesn't perfectly emulate the military.

And watch closely, nearly every resistance to this truth will be met by one or more of these logical fallacies .

This is quite scientific even, because it can be repeated and measured by anyone curious to investigate this matter in any detail.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I can see where you are both coming from and in your own ways you are both right.

It cannot be explained it has to be experienced. you have to be there yourself and know what every moment feels like. you have to take part in the bonding (some aspects of which make me feel a bit sick in regards to my lost lover, those who have done the training will understand what i mean by this)

please don't argue about it with each other, it's a complicated situation and can't be easily understood by anyone. it's like a trauma or traumatic event, only those who have experienced it really 'know' what it's like.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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Welcome to the world where greed controls.

There's always someone who's taking advantage, using people for their own means and wealth.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I do love the fact that you are vocally against the Military, yet have a Navy Vessel firing deck guns as your avatar.

So, I say sure sure, and what ever to you.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Blah Blah Blah. All you prove is that you have a "Word of the Day" calendar on your desk.
Can't even spell it correctly.
But again, I will not argue this with someone that is deaf to anything not in agreement to their viewpoint.


Wait I spelled it correctly didn't I?

Ad Hominem

Are you saying I misused the hyphen? That would be incorrect punctuation rather than spelling.

Deaf to what viewpoint? I wouldn't know because you won't tell me.
Forgive me for taking that as an indication that there is no legitimate argument against it in the first place.
It would be one of the hardest possible feats to disprove the allegation that the military is a cult.

1) If you insult someone as a debate tactic , it is an ad hominem fallacy by definition.
2) Retorting this fallacy by saying "You must have a 'word of the day calendar' is a Thought-Terminating Cliche combined with yet another form of ad hominem.

A thought-terminating cliché is a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance. Though the phrase in and of itself may be valid in certain contexts, its application as a means of dismissing dissent or justifying fallacious logic is what makes it thought-terminating.

edit on 15-11-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I do love the fact that you are vocally against the Military, yet have a Navy Vessel firing deck guns as your avatar.

So, I say sure sure, and what ever to you.



Ad hominem.

That picture is a description of what is happening to you.
Your shores are bombarded to smithereens.

Surrender now while you have a chance.


/end metaphor



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


But but but, that is a Military vessel.
So, I assume then you are commanding it? By way the US Navy?

You are a joke. Period.

Again, the only person in this whole thread that attacks others.

I can't wait for tomorrows word of the day from Muzzleflash.

Maybe "conundrum".

The OP is looking for a discussion, not a "Bash the Military" thread.



posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by macman

Blah Blah Blah. All you prove is that you have a "Word of the Day" calendar on your desk.
Can't even spell it correctly.
But again, I will not argue this with someone that is deaf to anything not in agreement to their viewpoint.


Wait I spelled it correctly didn't I?

Ad Hominem

Are you saying I misused the hyphen? That would be incorrect punctuation rather than spelling.

Deaf to what viewpoint? I wouldn't know because you won't tell me.
Forgive me for taking that as an indication that there is no legitimate argument against it in the first place.
It would be one of the hardest possible feats to disprove the allegation that the military is a cult.

1) If you insult someone as a debate tactic , it is an ad hominem fallacy by definition.
2) Retorting this fallacy by saying "You must have a 'word of the day calendar' is a Thought-Terminating Cliche combined with yet another form of ad hominem.

A thought-terminating cliché is a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance. Though the phrase in and of itself may be valid in certain contexts, its application as a means of dismissing dissent or justifying fallacious logic is what makes it thought-terminating.

edit on 15-11-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)


C'mon man, i tried to explain this. it's an experience thing.
Also i think it might be fairer to say that cults use military training techniques rather then the other way around.

Please man, don't get angry about this. I know it sucks, hell i'm the OP so i think i can justify that sentiment. It's always the anger that stops these things from being understood. It seems counter-productive but switch off the emotional aspect for a bit and look at this from a different perspective.

but if you wanna argue i can't stop you, but i would ask that you try to stop yourself, the anger doesn't resolve conflict, only a desire to understand the reasons will resolve it.





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