Income Disparity in America - Shocking!

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

There is an easier fix. You make the rich and the Multi nationals pay tax in the on the profits made locally and fine them for human rights violations that they carry out in your own country under your nose.

If they outsource labour to a cheaper country then their products can no longer be sold in your country.

There's an old saying that I am sure you know. 'Charity begins at home.' so does honesty

Some how you just made my logical explanation on how to fix a small part of the problem, jumbled it up, and spit it out making no sense. did you even understand my statement?

First off if there were human rights violations in america those companys would be shut down. We already have the 2nd highest Corporate taxes in the world, you dont need to tax them any more. Just do what i say and you would balance the equation. no more jobs being shipped over seas because the result would be the same labor cost in both nations.

But remember, cost of all good will go up :-). you guys ready to pay more for your blue ray and hybrid cars?

I've never earned more than $32,000.00/year in my life. My household income has not been more than 60k a year (and that was for a short time) then I was on my own again. I now work for $8.25 an hour. I have always owned a decent house and my present house is almost paid for. My vehicles are paid for. I made the choice to spend my money responsibly. I did not splurge on overpriced cars, houses, clothes and such. I have nice furniture and everything I need and want. I also made the choice to live in areas where housing prices were affordable. I chose to grow my food when I could and cook most of my food from scratch, avoiding overpriced meals. I chose not give my children the newest and best of toys and electronic devices, giving them the opportunity to develop as active and social children who now as adults support themselves. It's all a matter of choice.

Instead of looking at the total sum of money brought into the home, look at how the money brought in is spent. I see so many people overspending. Most have enough to live comfortably yet can't stop wanting and spending more and more.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Your blaming China for the wrong doing of the multinationals. I am not saying they dont have human rights issues because they do, big ones but they are not alone.

Our politicians applauded the 'Arab Dawn' whilst violently cracking down on peaceful protest at home.

With tax relief. Public money payouts and sweetners from the public purse most if not all the top companies pay nothing and some get rebates even though they actually paid no tax at all.

If you can't see the human rights being broken right infront of your own eyes, or the outsourcing of labour to cheap countries like China whilst putting our own people on the dole then me and you live in different worlds.

BTW your post in the real world made no sense at all

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Your blaming China for the wrong doing of the multinationals. I am not saying they dont have human rights issues because they do, big ones but they are not alone.

Our politicians applauded the 'Arab Dawn' whilst violently cracking down on peaceful protest at home.

With tax relief. Public money payouts and sweetners from the public purse most if not all the top companies pay nothing and some get rebates even though they actually paid no tax at all.

If you can't see the human rights being broken right infront of your own eyes, or the outsourcing of labour to cheap countries like China whilst putting our own people on the dole then me and you live in different worlds.

well if you noted I said this would fix a small problem, we all know there is a large problem

BTW your post in the real world made no sense at all

Im sorry, maybe you should take some econ classes to help you understand the way things work. Or how about you tell me what the real world solution is. sounds like you have all the awnsers.

reply to post by camaro68ss


If you truly believe that putting some sort of embargo on China and link it to human rights issues is a logical solution I say go with it and see where it gets your country. A country China holds the deeds for.

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

If you truly believe that putting some sort of embargo on China and link it to human rights issues is a logical solution I say go with it and see where it gets your country. A country China holds the deeds for.

haha, who cares if china holds the deed. what are they going to do, attack us with there 1 1970's aircraft carrier. lol give me a brake. you give them to much credit

O and please tell me how your going to make the world a better place? all you have is "thats not going to work"

The root of the problem is the private ownership of the means of production, capitalism. The solution then needs to be the opposite, that being the workers collective ownership of the means of production, and the public ownership of resources.

The distribution of labour, and resources, should be decided collectively, by the community. Not by a 'private owner', whose decisions are for their own benefit, but effect all of us.

Capitalism and capitalist organization (top down authority/government/state), creates centralized power that becomes more and more removed from the community it claims to represent. The more centralized this power becomes the more powerless we become.

We are told capitalism is making money, it isn't. It is people making money using their capital to exploit labour. It is exploitative because 'the worker' has to produce more than his wage, in order for the owner to make money. If 'the worker' owned and controlled their own labour, they would receive the full amount for what they produce. The 'owner' is unnecessary, the workers produce the wealth, the owner simply exploits. We can fix this by organizing, but people seem to fear that, because we are conditioned to fear that. The capitalist elite are extremely organized, that is their power. That is how so few can exploit the many. When the people organize, scary things can happen for the capitalist class...

struggle.ws...

Originally posted by ANOK
The root of the problem is the private ownership of the means of production, capitalism. The solution then needs to be the opposite, that being the workers collective ownership of the means of production, and the public ownership of resources.

The distribution of labour, and resources, should be decided collectively, by the community. Not by a 'private owner', whose decisions are for their own benefit, but effect all of us.

Capitalism and capitalist organization (top down authority/government/state), creates centralized power that becomes more and more removed from the community it claims to represent. The more centralized this power becomes the more powerless we become.

We are told capitalism is making money, it isn't. It is people making money using their capital to exploit labour. It is exploitative because 'the worker' has to produce more than his wage, in order for the owner to make money. If 'the worker' owned and controlled their own labour, they would receive the full amount for what they produce. The 'owner' is unnecessary, the workers produce the wealth, the owner simply exploits. We can fix this by organizing, but people seem to fear that, because we are conditioned to fear that. The capitalist elite are extremely organized, that is their power. That is how so few can exploit the many. When the people organize, scary things can happen for the capitalist class...

struggle.ws...

O yeah, I remember that show, it was called USSR. I remember it being canceled in the 80’s. Socialism has failed time and time again. What goods or Inventions did the USSR come up with under the umbrella of socialism? How’s Greece doing or Italy doing with the Socialist party as the majority in there house right now?

Capitalism is not perfect, but socialism is worse. Look at every time it’s been implemented, its failed, and its failing in Europe as we speak!

reply to post by Gridrebel

Instead of looking at the total sum of money brought into the home, look at how the money brought in is spent. I see so many people overspending. Most have enough to live comfortably yet can't stop wanting and spending more and more.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head, you drove it home! Keeping up with the Jones is what gets way too many people in over their head. Live within your means, is not taught to children as a whole, either in school or at home. I see folks who aren't satisfied with what they have, they want what everyone else has. It just doesn't work that way.

I have what I have because I worked hard, put up what I could, and only bought it if I could afford it. My friends told me to loosen up a bit. My wife and I dug in and held our ground. This is something most today won't do. They ask for equality and a fair wage, yet are they really going to be happy with that? And what is a fair wage anyway? The same as the boss or owner? And what happens next year when you feel you need more?

I wish I had the answer, But I'm not sure anyone will ever please everyone. Gridrebel, you said it so well. Thank you for bringing up the most valid point yet.

reply to post by camaro68ss


In other words you don't care about injustice.

The person who got your MacCoffee, emptied your trash, put up with your darling teenager in biology, took care of your infant while you worked, all these people made squat while we pay actors, CEO's and those that don't really contribute real worth to our society tens of millions of dollars.

Your attitude and apathy along with most of the other misguided people is why the world is partly in the mess we are in.

Some have so much they couldn't spend it in a thousand lifetimes and meanwhile 30,000 children starved to death today and

Every DAY 5,760 more children become orphans
Every YEAR 2,102,400 more children become orphans (in Africa alone)
143,000,0002 Orphans in the world today spend an average of 10 years3 in an orphanage or foster home

www.hfgf.org...

You need to possibly rethink and maybe like the tin man in the Wizard of Oz ask for a heart.

Paul Krugman noted in November 2011 that all American redistribution of income away from the bottom 80% has gone to the highest-income 1% -- and that a report looking only through 2005 found that almost two-thirds of the risihg share of top 1% income went to the top 0.1% (the richests one-thousandth), who saw their income rise more than 400% from 1979 to 2005.

Krugman added that the top 0.1% is not heroic entrepreneurs -- instead, corporate executives, executives in nonfinancial companies (Wall Street executives), lawyers and realestate kings.

'We are the 99 percent' is a clear message. It is unfair and, in fact, digusting that the American political economy is run for the benefit of a plutocracy. I don't see how that can be misunderstood," said Todd Gitlin (president of the former Students for a Democratic Society in the mid-1960s) at the Occupy Wall Street protest Oct. 5, 2011, according to the Oct. 10 Seattle Times.


Fifty percent of all American workers earned less than $26,364 in 2010, fewer jobs were available and overall pay was trending downward, except for the wealthiest, with the number of people making $1 million or more rising 18 percent from 2009, according to an Oct. 21, 2011, Seattle Times article citing Social Security Administration data.

CEO pay has multiplied, with the median value of salaries, bonuses and incentives for the CEOs of 350 huge American corporations rising 11% in 2010 to $9.3 million, according to a Wall Street Journal study that was cited by the Cascadia Weekly on Aug. 31, 2011. Bonuses rose 19.7% too -- and these increases do not include stock-option rewards.

The top 0.1% of U.S. earners grabbed more than 10% of U.S. personal income (including capital gains), and the top 1% grabbed more than 20% (in 2008, the lastest year figures are available), the June 21, 2011, Seattle Times reported. The big earners are executives and managers (even in boring areas like the milk business). Since 1970, executive pay has increased 430%, far above a 250% increase U.S. corporate profits -- and wildly above the 26% increase in wages for ordinary workers.

A dozen U.S. businesses -- with profits of $171 billion over the past three years -- paid a NEGATIVE $2.5 billion in federal taxes. Boeing had $9.7 billion in profts over this 2008-10 period and had a total federal tax rate of -1.8 percent. In the decade ending in 21010, Boeing's profits were $29 billion, yet it paid MINUS $948 million in federal taxes, according to the July 3, 2011 Seattle Times' Danny Westneat (citing a Citizens for Tax Justice study).

The average federal income tax rate for the 400 most super rich (average income of $345 million in 2007, the most recent year for IRS data) was 17%; it had been as high as 26% in 1992, according to an Associated Press story on Page 1 of the April 18, 2011, Seattle Times.


The richest 1 tenth of 1 percent of Americans is only 13,000 households and earned more than 11 percent of the nation's total 2007 income, according to columnist Bob Herbert in the Sept. 15, 2010, Seattle Times. The top 1 percent of earners has seen its share of America's income increase from 9 percent in the 1970s to 10 percent in the 1980s, to 19 percent in the late 1990s -- and to 23 percent in 2007, the most recent year complete data is available.

The super-rich get super-richer, according to the Aug. 23, 2010 New Yorker, which reported that between 2002 and 2007, the top one percent of rich Americans have seen their share of the national income double. And, within that group, the top 0.1 percent have seen their share of national income triple -- by themselves, they earn as much as the bottom 120 million people in America.

Rest of article and source: hope.journ.wwu.edu...

Your reply was hearless, thoughtless and flippant.

reply to post by zeeon




Yes I've been trying to wake Americans up for ages on ATS about this..............but most don't care or simply haven't the time.

However, with OWS, and this injustice beginning to affect more and more people are beginning to care now that the brown stuff is hitting their fan.

Starred and flagged.

I hope you can wake up a few more than my previous post on this.

A big F&S to zeeon for the OP! The situation regarding income disparity and opportunity here in America is utterly disgusting and this is why the OWS movement sprang up in the first place and also, the reason it's not going away any time soon.

What's even scarier than the income disparity statistics provided in this thread, is the realization that even when faced with these facts, some will continue to defend the current system, as is. Un-friggin-believable!

Doesn't anyone realize just how many of our current problems are directly associated with the disappearing middle class? This is really much bigger than just fair wages and benefits. What happened to the days when most families could afford to exist here in America as "Single Income" households? What happened to having a parent at home when the kids got out of school to provide proper parental supervision? Why do we blame teachers for poorly educated kids who, (due to lack of parental supervision) are unruly, sometimes even quite belligerent and often associated with gangs?

Just recently, my grandson who is in the 1st grade, participated in his second science fair of which I sadly report that only 23 of 700 students participated. This was due to lack of parental involvement. When his teacher set aside her Saturday, (9:00 a.m. till 9:00 p.m.) for parent/teacher conferences, guess how many parents showed up? Three, that's right I said 3. Out of 30 students, each having two parents, only 3 could find the time to consult with their child's teacher about his/her education. Yet somehow, it's all the teachers fault and we should eliminate collective bargaining to solve the problem, Really?

When both parents are forced to work, (sometimes multiple jobs each) they no longer have the time to properly raise their children and the impact on society is literally immeasurable. So, when employers refuse to pay a "living wage" and benefits to their employees, not to mention full time employment which is almost a thing of the past, they cause irrefutable harm to society in general, the cost of which is passed on to the taxpayer. The end result is a generation of less educated children, higher drop-out rates, gang violence, joblessness and an ever increasing burden on the social safety net. In essence, they're causing the very things they're bitching about!

This is really about GREED and those who would value money over people. Didn't someone once say that "The love of money is the root of all evil?" Looks like they were right!

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Heartless, hahaha. I guess your in the Socialist camp as well? Again i said Capitalism is not perfect but its the best we got!

Now lets look at socialism, one being placed onto the American people slowly but surely, A once thriving and growing country now being brought down by the shackles of socialism! You call Capitalism greedy, I call socialism a nightmare and an end to humanity as a whole if we keep going down this path. You cry for the few, well under socialism the many will be crying in hunger!

This socialist path is enslaving this nation! Granting entitlements and hand outs. Did you know that 47% of Americans no longer pay taxes!!! What happens when we reach 51% and the many enslave the few to higher taxes. Ill tell you, those still working will stop because why work if im going to get food stamps and cash every month from the goverment? What happens after, less and less people pay taxes and more and more people get hand outs.

Look at greece, going up in flames, look at Europe as a whole, going up in flames under the Socialism flag. Now take a look at america. Now 100% debt to GDP ratio. 15 trillion in debt with no mathamatica way to pay it back. Your socialist ideas have inslaved this country in debt! and once this county falls economically because of it, then we will see how many people are crying in the streets in hunger. It will be 300 million more then the amount now!

Again Capitalism is not perfect but its alot better then the path we are heading down now! the path of the whole county in hunger.

reply to post by camaro68ss


No I'm not in the socialism camp but somethings need to be changed.

And when you were a kid and sat down at the table with one pie and ten people...........one person cutting 3/4 of the pie leaving the rest could not be called fair or just.

I've worked for a CEO of a fortune 500 company....................he did not work near as hard as those below him, the real workers.

There will be no reaching you and I don't mean any disrespect - you're just not ready to see the injustice of it all.

We have enough resources, food, clothes, housing for every single person on the planet............however as long as most people go along with a few having almost everything while most starve, go homeless and sold into child sex slavery because they can't even eat...................you simply are of a totally different mindset then me.

Greed is not okay in my book.

reply to post by camaro68ss

I guess your in the Socialist camp as well? Again i said Capitalism is not perfect but its the best we got!

I love you boil everything down to socialism and capitalism. You only see things in black and white. We start talking about equality and you start calling everyone socialists and communists, it's quite frankly disgusting. This has nothing to do with Government hand outs, the OP was clearly talking about the vast gap between average income earners and high income earners. It doesn't matter if America was a capitalist country or a communist country, the Government would still give hand outs. We are not talking about what the Government does with their tax money, we are talking about the economic system which standardizes how business is conducted. Capitalism is obviously designed in a way that will result in extreme inequality, a blind man can see it.

the only way to combat wealth disparity is first to eliminate or completely restructure the stock market.

when corporations are in debt to investors in the form of stock, the employees suffer. they are paid the bare minimum for their work, and in some cases grossly underpaid.

this is to ensure max. profits for shareholders. the ceo's in theory are hired by the shareholders to max. profits.

his 17 million dollar salary comes with no non-sense expectations. they easiest way to max. profits is to lower or eliminate salaries.

cap shares. it's ridiculous to have companies selling shares like candy and having 100 million shares between thousands of people.

shares should have a min. guaranteed return and divided according to that. less investors, the less pressure to meet giant returns and to keep everybody happy.

you should only be an investor in a company and not a owner. when your return promises have been met the stock should expire, with an option to rebuy with the same guarantees.

the company, regardless of salary, should divide 51% of it's stock with all it's employees equally. if you're the mail guy or the ceo, everybody gets the same stock.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

You say 'start your own business' but who the hell has the resources to do that when there is such an absurd amount of inequality and the competition already rules the entire gameboard! Only those who are already rich have the chance to 'gamble' with business. It's one big rigged game designed to make the rich richer and milk the working class like cattle.

edit on 15-11-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

I did. I had to. I was laid off two years ago. Our income went from around $140,000 to $40,000 overnight. (My husband was laid of a year later) I chose something that I already knew how to do and had most of what I needed to do it. It has taken me two years to grow to a reasonable amount of income but still nothing compared to what I was making. Right now I'm clearing about $2k a month. I have one person that works with me. I try to treat her very fairly.

I had a person previously that worked with me. At that time I paid by the hour and on certain jobs paid them for their lunch hour even though they weren't working it. I felt it fair since the job was in an area that made anything but eating out difficult. Since they had to buy their lunch I felt it was fair to pay them for that hour. How fair can you get?

Notice I said previously worked with me. That's because she decided to milk the job to make sure it took longer than lunchtime so she could get paid for that lunch hour. That's what happens when you try to treat people fairly. Most just take advantage of it.

Because of that I now pay by the job. I determine how long the job should take and pay based on that. The hourly rate is the same but I can longer be milked by someone working the clock.

The business I started - a cleaning & minor maintenance service. I already had all the equipment and enough supplies to get started. I designed and printed my own flyers and cards. I drove around and stuck flyers in mailboxes. Starting working for friends. The word has spread and I have about 16 clients now. One is a residential high rise where we do the common areas. Hopefully, with recent news, that is going to grow into multiple residential properties.

As to the amount of money, doing my best to pay everything. Usually late but most gets paid. Trying to sell my car now so I can catch up on my house.

You can do it. I know cleaning other peoples homes, mowing lawns, installing french drains - none of that is glamorous but it pays.

In addition to that I also farm out what few computer skills I have. I build websites for friends, fix their computers, whatever I can do.

It just takes effort and time. I doubt I will ever be one of the 1% but maybe I can get back to where its not so hard to pay the bills.

Sorry tried to get it outside the quote but didn't work

edit on 11/15/2011 by TXTriker because: silly typing

Income disparity? You want communism instead?

I can earm more because as I save I can use that money to make more money. It's not my fault others don't.

The poor could have more if they didn't by unneccesary things, oh yes they do. Successful people who have gone broke did without the things others demand so they ca build up again and become succesful once again.

It's abotu sacrifice. Few sacrifice and I say the rich deserve their wealth if they worked to earn it (inheritence or lotteries are not valid here)

There are heaps of people who were once poor and made themselves rich. What the poor want is for others to make them rich.

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by camaro68ss
start your own company if you dont like the wages.

What, so he can employ his own team of slaves and keep most of the profit for himself? Capitalistic business is stupid, it's the whole problem imo. The people at the top (shareholders) take everything and hand out the minimum possible amount they can to their employees (the people actually doing all the work). Yes, capitalism does offer the opportunity for some people to be mega-rich...but do you know what the consequence of that is? In order for a small amount of people to enjoy exceptionally high wages, the majority of people must accept exceptionally meager earnings.

your so ignorant of business it’s not even funny. haha, his own team of slaves. Those slaves you are referring to have a choice to work for him or not. your view of capitalism is wrong. We have not had capitalism in this country since FDR raped this country of its freedoms and over stepped the powers of government. Everything wrong today can be traced back to him.

Shareholders gamble and dump there money into a company to get a return. Yes they should make out on the winnings. its there money. if your "slaves" dont want to work for the wages then leave.

If you want fair wages, move to china, i hear Communism is a gas

edit on 15-11-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

Actually those slaves don't have anymore choice to "work" than they do to "eat"...jobs are directly linked to survival on the most basic of levels due to things such as property tax that make things like "opting-out" impossible without persecution of the law and ultimately incarceration.

The logic that anyone can start a business is false and misleading because if everyone did the whole system would fail.

People are forced to work and being forced to work (to live) is slavery from any perspective.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl


Occupy the Voting Booth

Voting booths don't work when it is money that buys politicians