It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why do wicca's call themselves witches?

page: 4
0
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 06:19 PM
link   
aren't we sort of beating a dead horse talking about people borrowing beliefs/holidays or doing bad things in the past?

I mean really, go read history and you can easily see how things were adapted.
Who cares?

If you take my birthday and rename it "playstation day" and decide to play games that one day a year just to ruin my party, does it really matter a thousand years from now? It doesn't make playstation day less valid! I am happy for the person whose life is better because they needed a game break, faith is beautiful no matter where it comes from, we need to be able to cherish it in any person who can use it for good.

I understand if you want to feel like something was stolen, but then again, could it possibly have been stolen from someone else before that?

Your arguements are sounding as petty as denying someone who isn't Chinese the right to eat pasta. If you aren't French you can still drink the wine, let whoever celebrate whatever they want if it's good for them. Try smiling and thinking of them as Pagans who don't know it if you need to.


As far as bad things being done by larger religions, yeah, it happened. One of the strengths the Pagan community has it that it is resiliant and can bounce back, so I don't mean to be harsh, but get over it. Please.
Don't retaliate, use the knowledge to affect change and possibly prevent further problems. Persecuting Christians back isn't going to get us anywhere, it would most likely make us do it back, but then who the hell do we think we are to have that right? This makes us no better if we persecute them now.




posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 09:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Don't forget the damage the church did to the advancement of humans. They banned everything. Banning books started with the church.


THE CHURCH
Is the church the same as christianity?
No.
The church may have copied anyone, and may have done everything wrong, but what does the church have to do with me?
I know better, and I know christianity is very far from "the church" you so thankfully use to flame christianity. Don't even expect me to justify any retarded things "the church" did.
I do not know why they did it. and frankly I don't want to know either.
I just know they were wrong.

[edit on 4-9-2004 by Jakko]



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 09:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by WolfofWar[/i
theres just two links of hundreds, look it up, stop embracing your closed minded ignorance of your own religion. And I'm not even going to bother to going into how brutal and evil the churches past was during the middle and dark ages, it was more like a terrorist group then a religion.


Hey ignorant being, this was about Christianity, not about all the links you can find about "the church", this was about the core and meaning of christianity.
Stop using peoples mistakes as excuse to flame christianity and focuss on whats really there.
Your links focuss on `the church` and catholics, instead of what its all about.
Did you even look at my links?

[edit on 4-9-2004 by Jakko]



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 05:01 AM
link   
Jakko I have to agree with you. Some of you guys in here are just picking at old bones! So what if a few fanatical bums did bad stuff. Humans are just that--human, and there are cases of persecution and brutality in ALL religions and I mean ALL religions.You are ALWAYS gonna get the occasional fruitcake who will ruin everything in the name of their god or what they believe.

And guys lets just STOP spouting useless facts about how"bad and evil" Christians are because of past history. Its PAST history done by PEOPLE, and Christianity is about CHRIST. If you strip away all all the useless facts and mistakes, and past horrors and predjudices, and just get down to the real core of Christianity--its about love. Thats it. LOVE.

Start looking at what the religion is all about instead of how unstable people have warped it.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 07:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by Seeking Soul
Its PAST history done by PEOPLE
Start looking at what the religion is all about instead of how unstable people have warped it.

Part of the problem here that non Christians have with the "religion" is the fact that "most" people who follow this religion, do not adhere to it's tenets, only the ones they want to, and the fact that when you give the "facts", whether old or not, most Christians will argue about their validity....because most of them do not know their own religion.....as to the "religion", yes people have warped it....but no, you can't say the evil done by this religion is all in the past.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 08:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by LadyV
Part of the problem here that non Christians have with the "religion" is the fact that "most" people who follow this religion, do not adhere to it's tenets, only the ones they want to


Most people?
Most people you met Lady, not most people I met.
I met christians who are not perfect either, but who try to be and who do not condemn anyone because they know they are sinfull as well.


and the fact that when you give the "facts", whether old or not, most Christians will argue about their validity....because most of them do not know their own religion.....as to the "religion", yes people have warped it....but no, you can't say the evil done by this religion is all in the past.


He wasn't saying it's all in the past lady, you keep on twisting peoples words in order to make your point.
Your use of "most" shows how prejudiced and subjective you are. I know you can't help it that events in your life led to your opinion about Christians today, but your way of saying it makes you look rather ignorant.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 08:56 AM
link   
LadyV, no disrespect meant, but I do resent your use of the word "most" so often in your generalizations of Christians. The Christians I'm associated with tend to be very honest people, who, though they do make mistakes (everyone does) try their hardest to adhere to most things in the bible.

I agree with your statement that you shouldnt be selective about the commandments/biblical rules, but there will always be aspects some christians dont agree with eg: that homosexuality is morally wrong. THere's a big difference, I believe, between blind faith ( simply accepting everything the bible or your preacher tells you at face value) and enduring faith, where you have a moral responsibility to know the most you possibly can about your chosen religion, and take it warts, bumps, crappy history and all, and try to do your best with it.

However I do concede that Christianity does tend to produce quite a few holy-rolling fruitcakes
Unfortunately it seems, that because of your chosen belief system you tend to get quite a lot of these people trying to forcefully convert you or demanding that you be burnt at the stake.

For this,i apologise, on behalf of all the christians that arent that way.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 09:10 AM
link   
Anyways, back on subject.


Originally posted by LadyV
The difference is, we understand the laws of the universe that throw these happenings upon us, we understand the laws of cause and effect.


I find this interesting, how do you understand this? And why does understanding this make you a witch?
What started or labelled what you are as being "witch"?
Is this a new religion? Were followers of these ideas always called witches?


We do however, understand that the universe is and has to be both negative and positive, male and female in order for it to flow at an even keel!


That sounds pretty new age-ish to me. Of course there is truth to it, but such "wisdom" is so obvious, that it doesn't take a religion to understand this.


We do not get angry and cast spells or hexes on others due to the fact the we practice responsibility, and ethics, and while the "Rule of Three" is a "Wiccan" rule, most Witches do believe in the old adage, "What goes Around, Comes Around".


Sometimes people get mad, and I bet witches get mad as well. What happens then? Is there a "dark division" of witches? A group of them choosing the "wrong" path?
As you allready so elegantly pointed out, all religions, including Christianity, have fruitcakes and morons that are just out to cause trouble.
Is this also the case in witchcraft/wicca and in what ways does this happen?



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 09:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jakko


Most people?
Most people you met Lady, not most people I met.
I met christians who are not perfect either, but who try to be and who do not condemn anyone because they know they are sinfull as well.

Not "most" YOU meet? Perhaps that's because you are not pagan. Perhaps try telling them something they don't want to hear.........try telling them your pagan/a Witch. That statement makes you come across as the ignorant one.

Now, I have to leave for work



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 09:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by LadyV
Perhaps that's because you are not pagan.


I know how they respond to people who are like you Lady, you're not the first pagan ever I meet.
Not everyone is as bad as the hypocrits you met Lady.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 11:07 AM
link   
Jakko, maybe you should try it out though. Go to a christian group or something, with people you dont know of, and say your a Pagan or a Wiccan. It would be interesting to see their actions. I know I'm an Agnostic, and I get alot of crap from Christians aswell, how I'm turning my eyes from god, how I'll burn in hell for refusing jesus blah blah blah.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 11:06 AM
link   


and Christianity is about CHRIST

you mean Paul's version of Christ. which is not what Jesus taught.

and please i have had "missionarys" stand at my door and tell me
" you are not a pagan. you are just rebelling." because I know more
Bible history that they do i only think im a Pagan.

what a crock.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 11:11 AM
link   
is it possible to be a witch without being a pagan



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 01:57 PM
link   
Wow Jakko, you sure are funny. "We don't hate. Damn pagans! What the hell is wrong with you! Come to god or we will kill you! We don't hate."

Tell a group of christians you are a pagan, witch, jew, pebble person(they didn't have a clue what I was talking about), druid, hindu, buddist, so forth and see what they say/do. I bet all your kindly christian "freinds" will have some things to say/do to you. And the church is christianity. What do you think it is? Buddism?



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 02:26 PM
link   
wiccans are the ones who are into the planet. witches are the ones who use magick and other such things to cast on other people without them even knowing about it.

or they can do something good however. but then again how can something bad be used as good?


wiccans/witches dwell on the ability to summon from the earth, magick or things which come from beings who arent even the ''divine.'' therefore, in my opinion are lost. for not confronting the real ''entitiy'' for whichever they wish to have.

which is mostly why most witches/wiccans are plaqued with bad luck. just a little something i noticed. i wont get into the teen/witch/vampire thing. there is no knowledge in that topic. just lonely kids with nothing to do with their miserable time which is dehydrated from freedom or anything in particular that will make a person feel ''good.''

hope i shed ''some'' light on a topic that was bouncin offcourse!



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 02:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

and please i have had "missionarys" stand at my door and tell me
" you are not a pagan. you are just rebelling." because I know more
Bible history that they do i only think im a Pagan.

what a crock.


Yup, me too -- if I was lucky. I've also gotten the "Devil quoting Scripture" line or had mysterious things happen to my possessions like punctured tires on my car, and have had crap said about me at work to the effect that I was a Devil worshipper just because I wore a pentagram. Nor did it help that the idiot spreading lies about me killed his stupid self by driving while drunk, as then his cronies claimed I cursed him.

What's funny is that I've never had a problem with priests, ministers or rabbis, only nutcases who think they're better Christians than anyone else and think it's their duty to persecute me in the name of Jesus. Go figure.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 02:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
wiccans are the ones who are into the planet. witches are the ones who use magick and other such things to cast on other people without them even knowing about it.


That's a broad generalization, and from my experience both personal and in the pagan community, an incorrect one as well.


or they can do something good however. but then again how can something bad be used as good?


You can use nuclear power to level a city and ruin the earth, or use it to keep the lights on in thousands of homes. Is nuclear energy evil in and of itself? No. It's the intended use that makes it "bad" or "good".


wiccans/witches dwell on the ability to summon from the earth, magick or things which come from beings who arent even the ''divine.'' therefore, in my opinion are lost. for not confronting the real ''entitiy'' for whichever they wish to have.


There are many aspects to the Divine. In my belief system, you and I are part of the Divine, as is everything else. The Divine manifests itself in innumerable ways, be they positive or negative from one's perspective.

You also seem to have little or no experience with the way magic works or with witches/Wiccans/pagans in general. If you think that witches just cast spells on people for their own personal gain or only operate via spirits or entities, then you are are in error.


which is mostly why most witches/wiccans are plaqued with bad luck. just a little something i noticed. i wont get into the teen/witch/vampire thing. there is no knowledge in that topic. just lonely kids with nothing to do with their miserable time which is dehydrated from freedom or anything in particular that will make a person feel ''good.''


More broad generalizations. In my experience with the pagan community, good luck and bad is distributed in the same proportion as with any other religion. Look at all the Christians in the poorest parts of a city -- are they "bad" people too? The "bad luck means you're a bad person" perspective is an extremely narrow one, and has been used as justification to keep millions in poverty & misery since the beginning of time. And what about the victims of the recent Florida hurricanes? Were all of them "bad" people too because they had the bad luck to lose everything they owned? Such a view promotes apathy towards the suffering of others, and I fail to understand how it makes one a "good" person for believing it.

[edit on 6-9-2004 by Hecate100]



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 05:14 PM
link   
I would say definately, there are magic practicioners who are Christian, Jewish, etc. I've actually run into quite a few Jewish witches...

Hard question to answer because both of those words sort of have fuzzy lines... Yes if "witch" is a magic practicioner, no if "witch" means wiccan (there are some who do believe this, no if "witch" means a pagan magician (i've heard that one too)

It has some confusing points- a pagan Kabbalist would be a witch, but since it is a line of Jewish mystacism, do you really want to consider a Jewish Kabbalist a witch or just Jewish? It could be argued to be different, because if you ask 100 people what a witch is, you'll probably get 99 different answers.

Witch, in European and US cultures tends to be associated with pagans... You could also be an athiest or agnostic and easily be a witch.

There a still older tribal cultures (and even developed ones too) who also take the word witch to be a group of people (none of which really exist) who are causing all the bad things that happen in the society... In their terms you could be anything you want and still considered a witch. It is not uncommon in such groups for it to be considered a subconsious talent too. (people are excommunicated periodically for witchcraft and they accept that it must have been them)


Originally posted by skerley
is it possible to be a witch without being a pagan



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 07:04 PM
link   
Well, i think personally that since Wicca is a pagan religion and it relates to magick, they prefer to call themselves witches. I wouldn't be saying this if i didn't know about the subject, but i really do know. A witch normally has no religion. And if they do, it's most of the time Wicca. That's why wiccans call themselves witches, and so forth. From my point of view.
It is true that most people who call themselves Wiccans are metal heads with tatoos and wear black. But they are not real Wiccans. Real ones don't say anything and keep they're philosophy to themselvses.
I wear black, spykes, and piercings but you know what? I don't tell anyone about myself and what i do. I'm a happy person and i only dress like that because it's the way i feel most comfortable in. So there! Toma la morangos!!!

[edit on 6-9-2004 by nimue]



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 02:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Wow Jakko, you sure are funny. "We don't hate. Damn pagans! What the hell is wrong with you! Come to god or we will kill you! We don't hate."


Shhh, you're being ignorant once again.
Read my posts.




top topics



 
0
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join