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Why do wicca's call themselves witches?

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posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 02:52 AM
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and wiccans are different because they dont dwell on the ''craft.''




posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by topsecretombomb
and wiccans are different because they dont dwell on the ''craft.''


exactly.
Isnt there black witch craft



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 08:36 AM
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I wasn't insulted, actually was laughing while I was thinking about it.
I know the group you mean.


Originally posted by nimue

Yes, you are right. I admit i said that. That was not what i meant though. I was refering to those metal heads who go around and call themselves Wiccan and do nothing. Just talk. i didn't mean to give you a hard time. No fighting... I'm sorry if i insulted you, not what i meant.
ok?

[edit on 7-9-2004 by nimue]

[edit on 7-9-2004 by nimue]



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 08:44 AM
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*commences banging head on wall*

Some people divide "good" into "white" and "bad" into "black" (which sometimes includes a grey too...

So black magic isn't really something that exists but a classification we can choose to put certain actions into.
Sort of like how colors aren't so much something that is how something is, but a reflection of how we percieve and interpret something. (light and vibration and how we see it)

Honestly, I don't believe in dividing magic up this way because everything you do has side effects... I could cast a good luck spell on you and if you win the lotto, that means someone else had to loose for you to win.

Similarily, if someone is cursed with some sort of bad luck, likely someone else would get the good that had been coming for them.

Make sense?

So to me it doesn't really matter what you are going to do, you need to realize all the possible effects and know that it is what you want to occur. It is a huge responsibility and the classifications like "white" or "black" tend to downplay the significance, you are toying with the universe here, not playing chess. (unless you're playing enochian chess which is a completely different subject, and isn't just a game either)


It is also an easy way to get people off your back too... NO, i'm good, see- white magic, not black magic...

Besides, what sort of euro-centric society decided that white=good?!?


Originally posted by infinite

Isnt there black witch craft



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 09:21 AM
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There is NO bad magic....only the energy......it's like electricity....it can cook your food, light up your home, or used in an electric chair to kill someone...energy (which is all magic is) just "is" . It is it what one does with it....all "magic" is, is energy, being manipulated, which science is now learning....as to insults....yes, I was insulted to be told spirits are controlling me!
as to marriage....if they weren't "happy" marriages with healthy, good relations, I wouldn't of brought them up
I feel my family is very blessed in that way as most marriages I see around are very sad.....Do we have a lot of money....no, will I, do I, cast for money, no...it would be improper for me to do so. I have what I need, pay the bills, a little put back, I live comfortable enough for me...though I am in no way a materialistic person but I have my car, he has his truck, we have our own computers....blaa, blaa, blaa...I love my work and I am doing what I want to be doing in the field of animals. I'm happy, we have the typical problems of life. Too many people see Goths and/or the wanna bees and "think" they are seeing true Wiccans or Witches...they aren't...chances are you have seen many, but you didn't know it because we look, dress, are, like everyone else other than our belief structure. No....we don't "dwell" on the craft.



[edit on 9/8/2004 by LadyV]



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 09:47 AM
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LadyV: oh ok! So are you saying that Wicca is more like a lifestyle and/or belief system than a craft?
I think why people in general (particularly Christians I concede) discriminate against Pagans is because they think you spend all your time running round and messing with black magick to get what you want and putting curses on people. Its hard for people to see the core of a religion and what it stands for instead of seeing all the fruitcakes that pretend to be part of it (in your case wanna bee wiccans, in mine overzealous holy rollers)

James the Lesser Point taken about about the rappers,king fu artists etc etc but it....erm.....well it SHOULDNT be that way should it? I hate it when a few nutrcases spoil everything for everybody. But such is life I spose


oh, but tell Bunny not to worry, Fluffy's more interested in the pancake than bunny himself



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 09:52 AM
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I find it truly amazing the ignorance I see on this board.

Are we watching too many reruns of hocus pocus, hmm?

It's amazing some of you people are throwing negative ideas you have about it out there, instead of actually opening yourselve's to a more postive point of view so you can at least have some balance...



LadyV,

I have a few books on different kinds of practices, while I believe not all books on it are fact, they are interesting nonetheless, I have used herbs for certain healings out of the book: "green witchcraft".. Which is very interesting.

My roomate came back from cuba a few years ago ( I don't practice anymore) but she had a real bad energy attached to her from seeing a more or less satanic psychic, I felt it as soon as she came home... It was frightening but I had a cleansing stick, I used my trusty book to say a prayer and while I was cleansing her I could feel the energy taking the place of the negative energy, I cast the negative energy out of my apartment and she was fine. She even looked sick when she came home.. I didn't feel really comfortable with that as you could imagine... yuck.

Another time I was wrongfully accused of something and there was a spell I could use to channel my energy to that person so that they would find the truth. I didn't cause harm or anything just merely wanted that person to figure out I was right all along and she was wrong because she was lied to and had drawn a misconception like a lot of people on here have...
Later on that week she realised she had been wrong, and well, thats all I ever wanted... Cleansing the air makes things alot smoother.

Chinese medicines, dravidic people, Indian people, vikings, witche's, norse people all had their ways of using nature and energies for healings...

These are ancient practices and it's really shameful and frankly i'm embarrassed for some of you...
To see adults on here shouting these practices down just because a bunch of you have been spoonfed nothing but lies and misconceptions... You think the ignorance would of stopped there, but no, you guys are still carrying the torch high and proud. Arrogance is deadly ignorant

A lesson in objectivism really wouldn't hurt...

Edited for grammatical errors.

[edit on 8-9-2004 by TrueLies]



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLies

To see adults on here shouting these practices down just because a bunch of you have been spoonfed nothing but lies and misconceptions... You think the ignorance would of stopped there, but no, you guys are still carrying the torch high and proud. Arrogance is deadly ignorant

A lesson in objectivism really wouldn't hurt...


True Lies
I believe most of the animosity or ignorance on this board has already filtered out.Everyone had a few misconceptions but most regular contributors are at peace (almost anyway)

Not everyones as unobjective here as you may think.



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV
There is NO bad magic....only the energy......it's like electricity....it can cook your food, light up your home, or used in an electric chair to kill someone...energy (which is all magic is) just "is" . It is it what one does with it....all "magic" is, is energy, being manipulated, which science is now learning....as to insults....yes, I was insulted to be told spirits are controlling me!
as to marriage....if they weren't "happy" marriages with healthy, good relations, I wouldn't of brought them up
I feel my family is very blessed in that way as most marriages I see around are very sad.....Do we have a lot of money....no, will I, do I, cast for money, no...it would be improper for me to do so. I have what I need, pay the bills, a little put back, I live comfortable enough for me...though I am in no way a materialistic person but I have my car, he has his truck, we have our own computers....blaa, blaa, blaa...I love my work and I am doing what I want to be doing in the field of animals. I'm happy, we have the typical problems of life. Too many people see Goths and/or the wanna bees and "think" they are seeing true Wiccans or Witches...they aren't...chances are you have seen many, but you didn't know it because we look, dress, are, like everyone else other than our belief structure. No....we don't "dwell" on the craft.



[edit on 9/8/2004 by LadyV]



Oh i see, forgive my ignorance

Thank you for explaining thou


*gives LadyV a bag of cookies*

[edit on 8-9-2004 by infinite]



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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What is the point of a question ??? Then use your knowledge to ask good questions; such as; has anyone here ever casted a spel on anyone that worked and if so are you a Wiccan or a Witch?

Also why would you compare Christians to anyone else .... the christian army is the largest army in the world that destroys their wounded. You see someone .... mess up or .. "SIN" .... oh god forbid ... talk to that person ... but any how .... Wiccan I always thought was the religion or practice that Witches .. practiced ... LoL .... I am really interested in what it really is .. so I am goign to go to that site i saw... thanks for the Good Info peace ..



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by bet555
What is the point of a question ??? Then use your knowledge to ask good questions; such as; has anyone here ever casted a spel on anyone that worked and if so are you a Wiccan or a Witch?


Well, you don't really cast a spell "on" someone. Say a friend asks me to do a spell so she'll get a job. A really juicy job offer or two gets printed in her local newspaper, but it's really up to her to do the work -- calling the company, doing a good interview, etc. It's a matter of influencing the creation of opportunities. The same with a love spell -- when doing one, you're really working on yourself, making yourself open and accessible for romance. It doesn't mean you're controlling the will of another person, as that would bring with it the seeds of destruction for any possible relationship. (What use would it be if one could control a potential mate so easily, anyway?)

Wicca is a religion, while witchcraft is what it says -- a craft. Some Wiccans are witches, but not all witches are Wiccan. I'm an eclectic Witch who draws from a variety of practices, and haven't been Wiccan for almost 20 years. For some it's a starting point, while for others it's a lifelong commitment. Some claim that Wicca is the only "moral" magical path, but the ethical & moral code of 99% of the witches I know (Wiccan or no) is higher than that found in any religion.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV
Taken from my website:
There seems to be a lot of confusion going on about the differences between Witchcraft and Wicca.......and with good reason. Some "Wiccans" call themselves "Witches", while most "Witches" will not call themselves "Wiccans". To further confuse, there are some wiccans that do not want to be associated in any way with witchcraft, Witches that think Wiccan is a farce, and all the while, most people don't have a clue that Witchcraft and Wicca are different!

I wish I could post them here, but I have them in columns on my site and so in being that I am tired and lazy...you can view the differences here at my site explaining the differences between the two..

I call myself Wiccan, as I adhere to the tenets of the religion. I am also a Witch....as my mother was, her mother before her, and her mother before her...........though mosd call it more of a Witch/Shaman type of practice

Part of my site you need to read the differences:

www.geocities.com...

[edit on 8/30/2004 by LadyV]


I make my own path, but from the contrast on that site it looks like the difference is Witchcraft is more real and Wicca is more full of fluff and hype and put together to sell all these snake oil props to gullible people at want to live in a fantasy fairly realm..... any ways interesting contrast
Thanks for sharing



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by Netchicken
For the same reasons that the druids who turn up at Stonehenge claiming "ownership" or heritage to the site despite being totally non historical entities.

They do it for the ego kicks


Besides if they just said they were wannabe role players, who would take them seriously?

Your response to this question doesn't ring in the spirit of denying ignorance...but presents itself just opposite. It is also quite apparent by your response, that you have no idea what you are talking about! While I will admit that there are a lot of "wanna bees" around, Wiccans and witches are as serious as any other faith, and/or belief system. Most Americans form their view of Wicca from such nonsense dribble as TV's "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" or "Charmed," with their witches and curses, good and evil garblety goop. Wiccan worship focuses on respect for the Earth and its inhabitants with the main tenet of the faith being, "An it harms none....do as thou will" This includes not harming the self. This may be a subject, in the spirit of denying ignorance, sense you are a Moderator on site which uses that term as a sort of logo.....you may want to study and enlighten yourself on.



I would say Wicca is harmless, but at the same time people getting sucked into all that fluff and fantasy become inactive in reality and are just floating around in their little fake bubble of reality… but I guess anything to a extreme will mean being inactive… I guess indulging to much in conspiracy would be no different then indulging oneself too much into new age drivel… got to strike that balance to have a active healthy life……



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
LadyV, I think he was being sarcastic. But from the people I've seen that are "wiccans" in my highschool, theyre just screaming for attention by trying to be different and rebeling against the system so people will pay attention to them. Its called Avril Lavine Syndrom, most, if not all, the "witches" I know are just starving for attention by setting out to be different.





So far, of all the wiccans I know (about 15 of them) what netchicken says it true about them, and I'm sure most of the populous of the wiccans are just attention starved people (probably mostly girls) that wear all black, talk about vampires, and starve for constant attention upon them.


Yeah it appears allot of Goths and the like do stuff to stand out and feel original and special....... Funny how south park did a episode on the Goth crowd and how they all parroted each other in ways while talking about NOT being followers.... .

Guess you know just be yourself and learn to be more aware so you make your own decisions and know where why and how you make your decisions and just be yourself and don’t' concern yourself with what other chose to do is the best way to be original.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV
I am beginning to be applaud by this thread as it shows once again how little the public actually understands.. Jakko
, I find your your remark, "or even worse; a witch"? To be insulting. I would suggest sense you are ignorant on this subject, that you do some personal study.....I'm wondering now, why you U2Ued me telling me "my wisdom" was needed on this thread last night....to insult me? I am no "wacko" I am highly respected within my field employment, I am the manager of the Pet Salon I work at, I was a nurse for several years....many of those of my faith work with animals or in the medical field. Those of us that are true...are like everyone else....we don't run around showing off and spouting off at the mouth....I would suggest that most of those YOU are describing are "Goth girls". not witches and they are saying they are witches to fit into some type of "fad" like the commercial on lap tops with the Goth girl and the girl in pink at dorm...LOL ask them for some history and what is the true meaning of the pentagram....and watch them start stuttering...

Agian, I will copy something off of my site:
I had to add this page to my site because I keep coming across people who tell me they want to be a witch because they want to be able "cast spells" or make someone "love" them or they want to be "special" or "impress" someone. This type of talk upsets me, really bothers my husband (also a witch), and annoys other witches as well!

So what is it "to be a witch"? Well, for starters, it is a way of life, a state of being. It is who and what you are. It is not about making someone love you, running around saying, "I'm A Witch", or trying to prove to people that your something "special". Being a witch is something within you. You breath it, dream it, you live it! To be a witch means in part, that you have taken responsibility for your own life and many of the things that surround that life.

To be a witch, is to be a part of all that surrounds you, of the creatures that you share your world with. It is to be one with all things of nature; the trees, the sky, the earth, the oceans. To feel with them and to understand that you are connected with all things, "as above, so below" all things are tied together within our world. What you do to "it/them" you also do to "yourself/us". To understand and live this...is to be a witch.

To be a witch, is to have respect for all of nature. It is to hear her cry in the storms or her laughter on a warm breeze. It is to understand and feel the unseen world around you. The world that is always there, hidden to those that choose not to see it.

To be a witch is also to understand that we can change the energies around us through the use of our own energies to bring about the desired end result. It is to understand the power of prayer...YES we pray, probably more than most religions. Who do we pry to? Well, that depends on the witch. I personally pray to the "The Lord and Lady" , the mother earth and our father who is in the heavens, for there is both male and female.

In being a Witch, we acknowledge there or other beings, we do not worship any entity as superior, and though we may recognize the existence of other entities , we believe in the equality of all beings in the Universe, seeing them as different, separate, but never superior or inferior. We may call the Goddess and the God as representatives of the creative force of the Universe, but will usually call on other spirits as well, each being seen as a separate and equal entity. We believe there is a Spirit World or Other World where these other entities reside. Most do not see this as actually separate from this world, but rather a part of it that is usually unseen. Thus, the spirits who are contacted during ritual are already there but may be conjured or evoked to facilitate communication.

WHAT IT DOES NOT MEAN
TO BE A WITCH

Being a witch does not mean that we are special, on the contrary, we are like everyone else, We get married, have children, wreck the car, have disagreements, get depressed, get fired, have insecurities, argue with the neighbors, love our families, and adore our pets. In other words we have all the same ups and downs that anyone else does. The difference is, we understand the laws of the universe that throw these happenings upon us, we understand the laws of cause and effect.

We do not sacrifice anything, human or animal. We do not worship a devil or Satan. We do however, understand that the universe is and has to be both negative and positive, male and female in order for it to flow at an even keel!

We do not get angry and cast spells or hexes on others due to the fact the we practice responsibility, and ethics, and while the "Rule of Three" is a "Wiccan" rule, most Witches do believe in the old adage, "What goes Around, Comes Around".

Being a witch is not like The Craft, The Witches Of Eastwick, or Sabrina. It is nothing like Hollywood portrays it to be. Our Pentagram/pentacle IS NOT used upside down (inverted), but only right side up The inverted pentagram is used to represent Christianities Satan. WE DO NOT USE AN INVERTED PENTAGRAM.





I think all the things you described are very positive and respectable and things to be encouraged, and with are totally spate from all these many silly "occultists" parading around and stuff.......

Hm… I just noticed you are banned… you seem pleasant form this thread at least … I wonder why…….?



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 01:16 PM
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Well, I'll tell you one thing, Wicca is indeed witchcraft, and witchcraft is indeed Wicca. Forget the Gardner hoax and all that crap, you see Witchcraft is just paganism in a highly modified form. Voodoo for instance- slaves wanted to hide their religion from their owners, so they pretended to instead worship Mary and Jesus, and Saints, when they were really worshipping the African versions of Babylonian deities (ie: Oxala=Baal became Jesus, Iemenjar=Ishtar became Mary, exus=devas became demons, and the African Mot became Satan) Though the names received a thin Catholic venir, the theology didn't change. Why you often find people into the biz who say they worship "Jesus" but also have no problem worshipping "Satan", why reincarnation is found so prominently in parts of latinamerica (ie: Haiti), simply because they DON'T adhere to Christianity and are not simply acting in "rebellion" or having some philosophical issues with the faith, they are instead following a counterfeit under the table paganism. Same with Wicca, which is probably just a Northman paganism most probably.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:48 PM
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Witchcraft is a state of mind body and soul, with as little religious dogma attached as possible. It is also something that is a complete and individual experience. It doesnt have to and should not be the same for everyone, it is very personal. It is whatever your way of making your intent known in the universe. If that invloves tools, herbs candles and anointing oils so be it, it helps some prepare the state of mind needed to make the Magick work. It is whoever you are, manifested from good intent.

It is being one with the earth and the universe. It is a communication with other spirits, souls and Gods. It is hard to explain to someone the difference you feel with nature when you really are becoming one with it. I have always been a nature lover. See the difference is to be a nature lover is seeing nature as being different than your self. I feel nature, see it, smell it and am empathetic and respectful of both it and myself.

The craft has been given a bad rap because a competing religion was bent on replacing it, and destroying it. Wicca was the PC way of bringing the Craft back. If you are true to what the craft is and follow it and keep changing your whole life, one with nature, and familiar with the inner self and your intent and virtues were good it wouldnt matter that you called yourself Wiccan, you are also a Witch.

The reason you have a lot of young flaky teens doing it are usually for the wrong reason and are a result of the lies and disinformation by other religions and Hollywood. Because of this false image, the lunatic fringe become attracted to it. It is hard to find someone that got into it for the right reasons, because of this. I sure would like for this trend to go away!



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
The reason you have a lot of young flaky teens doing it are usually for the wrong reason and are a result of the lies and disinformation by other religions and Hollywood. Because of this false image, the lunatic fringe become attracted to it. It is hard to find someone that got into it for the right reasons, because of this. I sure would like for this trend to go away!


Although I agree with that, i wouldn't say "usually for the wrong reasons".
Many teens will see the hypocrisy in their parent's religion and seek another way, many of the other paths are so distant from their culture or are so dogmatic and dependent on subservience to a single guru, god, or doctrine, that to follow such would be willing enslavement.

Wicca, witchcraft, ceremonial magick, ritual magick, candle magick, whatever, all seem to be actions one has to willfully participate in by choice, often actions that do not require the judgments of another group, and its very hard to argue with anything having to do with the natural order of life.

Some of these things when looked at logically or scientifically, a background and ability most teens don't have, are totally preposterous. But when considered in context of the power of symbols, for instance a cross, a star of david, a swastika, or a pentagram which all have an undeniable influence on people, one can see how the elements presented by the various occult teachings carry their own influence to the individual.

The majority of teens don't have mentors to guide them, they have to choose for themselves what they will believe and how strongly they believe in it. Its wrong to be judge-mental and call them poseurs, flakes, wacko's and wanna-bees. The true term is neophyte and initiate, their stage along the path of enlightenment has just begun, as all who ever sought to move beyond beast began before them.

I hope that anyone who has read this thread now understands that "witch" is only a derogatory term when its used as an insult to a person or their faith, just as a number of other words in our language can be manipulated to such effect.

I also hope that the schoolies in the audience now understand that their classmates are trying to find their own way and not to judge them by what you think you know about their motives or the path they are following.

Love is the Law

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Legalizer]



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Legalizer
The majority of teens don't have mentors to guide them, they have to choose for themselves what they will believe and how strongly they believe in it. Its wrong to be judge-mental and call them poseurs, flakes, wacko's and wanna-bees. The true term is neophyte and initiate, their stage along the path of enlightenment has just begun, as all who ever sought to move beyond beast began before them.


I feel bad for using the word flake, that was judgemental and harsh. A lot of these kids discover the true meaning to the craft, and it changes them for the good forever.

Love is the bond

LGM



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 09:13 AM
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Thanks to everybody who participated in this thread. I did learn a few things. On a website I used to frequent, one the most divisive topics was Christianity and Wiccan. The Wiccans would bash the Christians and vice versa.

Both sides would call each other names and nobody got anything out of what little discussion there was. I don't call myself a Christian but I do have a set of beliefs that could be construed as Christian. Someone on the first page referred to Wicca as a religion or at the very least, a faith or a set of beliefs. I believe that each person has a core of inner beliefs/faith that make them who they are. I have always believed this to be true of Wicca as well but it was refreshing to see it actually admitted to. The anger that comes out in these discussions always surprises me because what holds a person together is this web of inner core beliefs that are personal and the glue of who that person is.

Wicca/Christianity, whatever it takes to get each of us through this muddled up mess we call a life.



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