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Why do wicca's call themselves witches?

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posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 11:03 AM
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Wasn't ment as an insult Lady, and neither was the u2u.
I think we all know the ignorant masses do find "witch" worse of a name than "wicca".

The u2u was send because I was aware of the fact that you do a lot in the witch/wicca field, and you were one of the few wicca people that did not seem like a total fruitcake to me.

Thanks for your extensive explanation.




posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV
Being a witch is not like The Craft, The Witches Of Eastwick, or Sabrina. It is nothing like Hollywood portrays it to be.

You mean all these years I've been wasting my time?!?


Our Pentagram/pentacle IS NOT used upside down (inverted), but only right side up The inverted pentagram is used to represent Christianities Satan. WE DO NOT USE AN INVERTED PENTAGRAM.


Not trying to open a can of worms, but most of the wiccans/witches/pagans I've encountered don't care which direction their pentagram is facing. It has always been Christians or misinformed people who used any direction of it to represent satan.
I would think it would be hard for a Wiccan to use an "upside down" (who decided which way that is anyways?) pentagram to represent a being most of them don't believe in anyways. Maybe you are saying this to separate accusations of satanism from wicca? I don't think this statement is very accurate though and since all it is really doing is spreading the wrong information it may not be as helpful as it first seems.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by blanketgirl



Originally posted by LadyV
Being a witch is not like The Craft, The Witches Of Eastwick, or Sabrina. It is nothing like Hollywood portrays it to be.

You mean all these years I've been wasting my time?!?


Our Pentagram/pentacle IS NOT used upside down (inverted), but only right side up The inverted pentagram is used to represent Christianities Satan. WE DO NOT USE AN INVERTED PENTAGRAM.



Not trying to open a can of worms, but most of the wiccans/witches/pagans I've encountered don't care which direction their pentagram is facing. It has always been Christians or misinformed people who used any direction of it to represent satan.
I would think it would be hard for a Wiccan to use an "upside down" (who decided which way that is anyways?) pentagram to represent a being most of them don't believe in anyways. Maybe you are saying this to separate accusations of satanism from wicca? I don't think this statement is very accurate though and since all it is really doing is spreading the wrong information it may not be as helpful as it first seems.


Your showing your ignorance my dear...Satanist have chosen the inverted pentagram, the points upward, to represent horns.....Wiccans/Witches do not believe in Satan to begin with...do your research before you speak.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Did you even read my post before you responded to it? Because you response not only sounds insulting, but proves that you didn't.

I was pointing out that most Wiccans don't care which direction their pentagram points, it's just the misinformed people who do.

It still isn't correct to say wiccans ONLY use one pointing up. I would think that statement itself would be showing your ignorance, is it only you who thinks it has to point up, or did someone actually tell you that? I've been reading and associating with pagans/wiccans for close to 20 years and nobody has ever cared which way it was unless they followed LeVey. Maybe you need to do some research before you start spouting things off and coming across in such a harsh manner accusing someone else of not knowing.



Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by blanketgirl

Our Pentagram/pentacle IS NOT used upside down (inverted), but only right side up The inverted pentagram is used to represent Christianities Satan. WE DO NOT USE AN INVERTED PENTAGRAM.


Not trying to open a can of worms, but most of the wiccans/witches/pagans I've encountered don't care which direction their pentagram is facing. It has always been Christians or misinformed people who used any direction of it to represent satan.
I would think it would be hard for a Wiccan to use an "upside down" (who decided which way that is anyways?) pentagram to represent a being most of them don't believe in anyways. Maybe you are saying this to separate accusations of satanism from wicca? I don't think this statement is very accurate though and since all it is really doing is spreading the wrong information it may not be as helpful as it first seems.


Your showing your ignorance my dear...Satanist have chosen the inverted pentagram, the points upward, to represent horns.....Wiccans/Witches do not believe in Satan to begin with...do your research before you speak.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 10:55 AM
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I too am a life long Witch....over 20 years myself.....and I do indeed continue to grow and learn, so yes, I have done my research. Many so called "Satanist" whether they follow LeVey or not, wear the pentagram upside down.....I personally in my years of learning, and in the years as a child being around my mothers associates, hare never known a Witch that wore the pentagram inverted.....perhaps we associate ourselves with very different types of Witches....



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 03:27 PM
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That tends to be true about what they wear, but the pentagram someone is wearing doesn't tell you how they actually feel about it's position. That in part has to do with appearances, you will find inverted pentagrams in goth hangouts and places where satanists tend to be, but if you go to a new age/pagan/wiccan gathering or place you only see the upright ones because they don't carry with them the negative association society has. (and we can point and say, "look, we aren't as bad as them!") It has been my impression that the upright pentagrams are used mostly for the sake of distinguishing ourselves in case of things like media or psycho-church groups who may show up, but the position doesn't stop it from wiccan use (can just have different uses to some)

The only people I've known to actually be specific that it had to be in a certain position or it wasn't the right symbol for them have been the satanists.



Originally posted by LadyV
I too am a life long Witch....over 20 years myself.....and I do indeed continue to grow and learn, so yes, I have done my research. Many so called "Satanist" whether they follow LeVey or not, wear the pentagram upside down.....I personally in my years of learning, and in the years as a child being around my mothers associates, hare never known a Witch that wore the pentagram inverted.....perhaps we associate ourselves with very different types of Witches....



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 04:45 PM
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I do understand what your saying, and will concede on the fact that Satanist, as far as "I" know, do insist on theirs being inverted. As to Pagans, again, I'll concede on that, as my experience is not so much with Pagans in general as it is Wiccans and Witches, which again, I have never known any to wear the pentagram inverted.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 08:34 AM
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okay.

I wasn't trying to argue, I know it's hard to differentiate without something to point to such as the pentagram that would give a noticable difference.
I do agree that Wiccans do wear it upright, but always found it to be more an issue of where they shop, trying not to be associated with satanists and for appearances sake.

Could you imagine trying to explain to somebody "uh, well, yes satanists DO wear the exact same symbol, but I'm not one, I'm something completely different..." It would be like breaking out a crucifix and saying it's to commemorate Baal, you would cause mass confusion and undo years of hard work trying to get society to accept differences.



Originally posted by LadyV
I do understand what your saying, and will concede on the fact that Satanist, as far as "I" know, do insist on theirs being inverted. As to Pagans, again, I'll concede on that, as my experience is not so much with Pagans in general as it is Wiccans and Witches, which again, I have never known any to wear the pentagram inverted.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 01:40 PM
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I was pointing out that most Wiccans don't care which direction their pentagram points


actually, from my experience, i have seen the inverted pentagram used by
Wiccans. it was used as a symbol of the 2nd degree, or second year of teaching.

this may have been a local thing i dont know and never asked. wasnt important.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 02:08 PM
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Hmmmm, Witches/Wiccans. Now, if you believe Christians, Witches are old warty evil devil worshipers that sacrifice babies and goats and fly on brooms. If you listen to Christians, Wiccans are people who are evil devil worshipers that sacrifice babies and goats and fly on brooms.

The truth as I know it? And as people have stated, they ae not one and the same. A Wiccan can be a witch, but doesn't have to be and vice versa.

Now, with Original Witchcraft, about 20,000 years old, is the birth of religon. Hurn the Horned God and the Goddess. Now, another Christian crap thing here, in the Bible Satan/lucifer is an angel with the feathers torn from his wings, but all pictures are of a Centaur with horns. This comes from the image of Hurn the Horned God/Pan from the Greek religon.(also older then christianity) This is what I know/told/read.

People who see witches as bad or something are caught up in the christian bull# used in the old days to get followers. Yep, Christmas? YULE! A Pagan/Druid?Witch holdiay to celebrate the Winter Equinox(sp?) Easter? OSTARA! Also a Pagan/Druid/Witch holiday but to celebrate the Spring Equinox. It is also where the Easter bunny came from, the Ostara Hare.

Hmmm, the Pentacle. I as I know it represents Spirit(top) then fire, air, Earth, and water(not sure the order). With it right-side up it is the Spirit over everything else, or the soul over material things. With it inverted it is the material world over the soul.

Not sure if any of that is correct, just what I read/saw/told and put together.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
if you believe Christians, Witches are old warty evil devil worshipers that sacrifice babies and goats and fly on brooms. If you listen to Christians, Wiccans are people who are evil devil worshipers that sacrifice babies and goats and fly on brooms.


Your ignorant, generalising, clueless rambling is getting old rather fast.
What some people in the past that called themselves christians said about these groups is totally different from what "Christians" in general say about these people.

Stop spreading ignorance James, this is not leading anywhere for anyone.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 06:58 PM
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Really Jakko, is that why the christians burnt witches and beheaded them and threw them off cliffs and drowned them? Is that why any and all christian hoolidays are stolen from the Witches that they tried to kill? Is that why witchcraft was illegal until the 1950's? Sounds like christians aren't ignorant and think that wiches are evil, they only tried to kill them for 1800 years.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by James the Lesser
if you believe Christians, Witches are old warty evil devil worshipers that sacrifice babies and goats and fly on brooms. If you listen to Christians, Wiccans are people who are evil devil worshipers that sacrifice babies and goats and fly on brooms.


Your ignorant, generalising, clueless rambling is getting old rather fast.
What some people in the past that called themselves christians said about these groups is totally different from what "Christians" in general say about these people.

Stop spreading ignorance James, this is not leading anywhere for anyone.

I get mail almost daily from site telling how evil I am, I am going to burn in hell, and any other number of ignorant letters! I have also been harassed IRL....you don't know what your talking about!



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 10:17 PM
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Christians are a very stubborn, arrogant group of worshipers. It's probably, firstly, the only religion (not including its related Judiusm/Islam, seeing theyre all one in the same) that claims that it is the only right religion. I mean, theres a high arrogance right there, one of the newest religions just pops up and says "yeah, we're the right ones," when you have Hinduism dating back 5,000 years before Judiusm and such. Then they go and decide if you arent with their religion, then your against it, and have 3 of the bloodiest slaughters of random people as the Christians embarked on their Cruscades, raping and pillaging and killing all that they deemed to be. Then we had the witch burnings, where they just declared random people witches and killed them in torturous and cruel ways. Not a very peaceful religion.


As for whether or not Some of the Paganistic rituals were picked up by the Christians, its obvious that the answer is yes. Christmas and Easter are the most prominant dates adopted by Christianity for their worship holidays, and the christmas tree was adopted from the Pagan Winter Solace practice. Infact, Christianity has changed and adopted new things so much, its not even the same religion it was started out to be. The original belief was that of one of many of the same general cult beliefs of a man that could walk on water, rise fromthe dead, perform miracles, and was supposedly the son of god [there were HUNDREDS of these loons during the roman times.] and Christianity itself was that of a Reincarnation based religion untill the Church was loosing money because people decided to practice and donate in their next life, so they changed it. Some of their core beliefs are the same, but much of, if not almost all of it was all adopted from other beliefs and popular religions of the times. And if anybody did a trace of research, theyd find the evidence to many of Christianities practices rooting back to Paganism, Druidism, Eqyptian, and other popular Non-modern religions.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 10:25 PM
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[WolfofWar]So true.....Jesus did not want to form a new religion. Christians can't even remember the fact that Jesus was Jewish, let alone not a cult leader. Christianity was not founded until after his death, hence the name. All of his teachings and parables and lessons were created to try and get Judaism back to the peaceful laws of god. Unfortunately, most Christians still are under the impression Jesus actually started Christianity.
...if he showed on earth today, he wouldn't even recognize his teachings in the Christians churches...pretty sad uh!?

[edit on 9/2/2004 by LadyV]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:54 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV
I get mail almost daily from site telling how evil I am, I am going to burn in hell, and any other number of ignorant letters! I have also been harassed IRL....you don't know what your talking about!


You allready shared that a ton of times, are you proud of it or something?
Of course there are narrow minded hypocrites in this world.
There are so many christians that it's very likely a part of them is just dumb.

You went on a generalizing tour a long time ago Lady, not all christians are like that you know.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:56 AM
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Oh and from what you have to say about Jesus, I see that you honestly do not understand a thing of Christianity.
Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah that the OT speaks of.
All the prophecies from the OT came true in the form of Jesus.

Christianity did not start when the Messiah arived or left, it was allready there when people were waiting for the Messiah.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:59 AM
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And Wolf, you's just so wrong.
Not only do you generalise and speak as if you know anything about the subject, you misunderstand history and miscommunicate everything Christianity stands for, while claiming you know how Christianity is based on other Pagan religion,s when those stories have been debunked long ago.

I am not going to defend Christianity again, I'm just going to say you're worse than the subjective dubious news channels that present news in a rather special way.

[edit on 3-9-2004 by Jakko]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 04:03 AM
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It was unpreventable, ignorant people rambling about Christianity even though they know nothing about it.
If you would like to continue doing it you can do so here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 04:29 AM
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Sorry I would have to concur with the others..
The rituals that were(and are) observed during the Equinoxes and Solstices as turning points in nature's cycles have been altered to suit the ancient Christian leaders needs. The issue of the pentagram being one way or another is dependant upon a given traditions (re:denominations) practices. This is unlike the use of a pentamorph whose usage is non-existant in Paganism since technically Satanism is a Denomination/Mythos of Christianity/Judiasm. The confusion between the pentamorph and the Pentagram was a perversion of Cern/Hern/Green man/Odin by the Christians. Additionally a right side up pentagram can represent the power of the human condition, particularly Reason.



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