We're in so much trouble...

reply to post by Masterjaden

Money is not what we envision it today...Money today is nothing more than a contrivance. It is contrived, made up of nothing. We need to go back to precious metal coin issuance PERIOD!!!!

I was expecting someone to come up with this reply, or at least insist on a return to the gold standard.

People who think the value of money ought to be based on its ‘intrinsic worth’ just don’t understand money.

Why are precious metals precious? Because human beings regard them as such. Their value lies not in their utility or scarcity (there is far more gold in the world, for example, than is needed for any practical purpose) but in the fact that human beings regard them as valuable.

There is no such thing as cash-convertible ‘intrinsic value’; it’s nothing but a consensual, shared delusion. In fact, all that is needed to make something valuable is for people to desire it. Anything will do and has done – tulips, nylon stockings, cigarettes. Precious metals are in no way unique in this regard.

Adopting a precious-metal currency (can’t you just see us all carrying bags of gold around? ) will indeed have social and economic effects – deleterious ones. For example, it will tend to cause an increase in muggings, burglaries and theft in general. It will also strangle economic growth, by limiting the supply of money. But it will not change the way money works. Money has always worked the same way, whether it was made of gold, cowrie shells or peanuts, and it always will. The nature of money is entirely abstract and has nothing – nothing whatsoever – to do with the nature of specie.

reply to post by Masterjaden


I agree with you. I imagine this isn't the first time, or last time, a civilization allows a very small number of them to exterminate most of the rest of them. Probably not even on Earth. I hear ya.

reply to post by thejlxc


The human race is bound to face endless trials, especially with our current forms of communication, 50 years ago for me to know how you felt and expressed your words would have taken a news paper, 8 months of sea travel and god help you that it was published. We overcome them, and generally always do(top of the food chain for a reason).

Its 2011 and we can instantly record a video in the UK, upload it onto a server and in 3 minutes somebody in the USA can be watching it happen. Our current age of technology is astonishing, im glad i live in an age where i can view the world even without moving from a chair (if i wish).

I feel i've gone off on a major rant about nothing, which brings me to my point... nobody will remember in 10 years what is said today, and even if it's something great, people will forget in 100 years, even gods are forgotten in 3000 years.

Our planet has been here for an estimated 4.5 billion years and humans think we're important, forgive me for saying, we are nothing but dust in the wind, another cycle on this rotating rock.

Live your life how you want and how you're friends/family will remember.

Eventually even our solar system wont exist anymore and all the monetary value in the universe wont save you from that,

Another age gone to time, what a great time to live!

I have read through all the posts from the beginning and agree that this is a timely thread, with so many intelligent observations. I feel that this particular book by Wilhelm Reich embodies much of what everyone has written so far.

THE MASS PSYCHOLOGY OF FASCISM By WILHELM REICH
In the rebellion of the masses of abused people against the empty niceties of a false liberalism (I do not mean genuine liberalism and genuine tolerance) the character layer of the secondary impulses was expressed. One cannot make the Fascist harmless if, according to the politics of the day, one looks for him only in the German or Italian, or the American or the Chinese; if one does not look for him in oneself; if one does not know the social institutions which hatch him every day. One can beat fascism only if one meets it objectively and practically, with a well-grounded knowledge of the life processes.... Clearly, international fascism will never be vanquished by political manoeuvres. It can only be vanquished by the natural organization of work, love and knowledge on an international scale. As yet, work, love and knowledge have not the power to determine human existence. More than that, these great forces of the positive life principle are not even conscious of their strength, their indispensability and their decisive role in the determination of human existence. For this reason, human society, even after the military defeat of party fascism, continues to hover at the brink of the abyss. The downfall of our civilization is inevitable if those who work, and the natural scientists in all branches of life (not death), and those who give and receive natural love, do not become conscious, in time, of their gigantic responsibility. Will human and social freedom, will self-regulation of our lives and that of our children come about peacefully or by force? Nobody can tell. But those who know the living function in the animal, in the newborn or in the true worker, be he a mechanic, a researcher or an artist, cease to think in those terms created by party systems. The living function cannot "seize power by force," for it would not know what to do with power. Does that mean that life will forever be at the mercy of political gangsterdom, that the politicians will forever suck its blood? No, it would be wrong to draw this conclusion. Free PDF available here: www.whale.to...

Why were stocks of this book (along with six tons of the printed works of psychologist Wilhelm Reich) burned in the United States On August 23, 1956, by U.S. court order?
It appears to me that as long as Fascism is considered the invention and possession of Hitler or the Nazi party of WW2, then the design flaw in the human psyche will continue to reproduce itself.
When Reich, who was a Jew, was ostracized, where was the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) to defend his rights?
Where was the Albert Einstein to lend his status as the so-called ultimate Jewish genius as an influential bargaining chip to the goyim authorities for justice? After all, Reich had previously sought Einstein's collaboration in reviewing the results of his experiments.
Einstein himself, on the pretext of creating the atomic bomb before the Nazi fascists did, lent his understanding of science to arm a different incarnation of Fascism itself.
Reich dies in a prison for producing a box lined with steel wool and Einstein is hailed as genius and saviour for his contribution to the creation of WMD's.
Yes, we are now in the grip of the last stages of a process that is like unto a Venus fly trap slowly closing on the fly lapping the sweet nectar inside oblivious to the impending danger. And the plethora of CCTV cameras will become the eyes of the voyeurs hid safely below ground as they watch neighbor fight with neighbor spewing out all the hostility Reich so eloquently describes thus:

In the superficial layer, the average individual is restrained, polite, compassionate and conscientious. There would be no social tragedy of the animal, man, if this superficial layer were in immediate contact with his deep natural core. His tragedy is that such is not the case. The superficial layer of social cooperation is not in contact with the biological core of the person, but separated from it by a second, intermediary character layer consisting of cruel, sadistic, lascivious, predatory and envious impulses.

reply to post by Golden Rule


INDEED.

Dr Phil Zimbardo . . . the prison experiment psychologist . . . [my paraphrase]:

'The monsters OUT THERE are not the problem. There aren't many of them. We can gang-up on them.

But if the monster is within each of us, that's a much bigger problem, indeed.'

The Bible:

The heart is deceitfully wicked. Who can know it?

Nothing but the Blood of Jesus avails against that problem.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Yes, BO XIAN, I read your previous post which pointed to Zimbardo's experiment which I hadn't previously heard about. Very interesting. I noticed he has written on a book which elaborates on the same subject, called: 'The Lucifer Effect'.

This transformation of human character is what I call the "Lucifer Effect," named after God's favorite angel, Lucifer, who fell from grace and ultimately became Satan. www.lucifereffect.com...

The general prisoner in the prison planet system is manipulated by fear and greed and so becomes a cog in the wheel of a self-governing system. Ambition in its real sense is a jockeying for attention towards those with more power of control. The displays of ambition send a signal to these "higher-ups" which read: "Look at me! I am ready to betray my fellow man and sell them down the river for a place at your table."

"All Agents defect and all Resisters sell out. That's the sad truth, Bill."

William Burroughs - Naked Lunch

In the end, as far as I'm concerned, the situation cannot be completely comprehended without asking the question: "Why such an elaborate entrapment? Why such a systematic closing of each and every avenue of escape? What is the prize for the perpetrators at the end?"

Wealth? Power? I believe these are just intermediate and finite pleasures for the elite (or anyone)

The Lucifer effect is like a self-perpetuating virus.

I asked a Christian the other day: (Don't you hold that) "Satan wants to harvest human souls - is that not correct that that is his supreme objective?"

"Yes, that's right."

"Why? So that he can torture them for eternity?"

"Yes, and out of revenge against God."

"But surely he would become bored after a short time with the torture and even revenge is sweet for only so long?"

The point I was trying to make was that it appears to be a conspiracy requiring such patience and requiring such a great passage of time that the final reward must be something quite stupendous.

I suggested that the human soul must be itself something so valuable, a power source so immeasurable that we cannot conceive of it.

He agreed.

reply to post by Golden Rule

The point I was trying to make was that it appears to be a conspiracy requiring such patience and requiring such a great passage of time that the final reward must be something quite stupendous.

I suggested that the human soul must be itself something so valuable, a power source so immeasurable that we cannot conceive of it.

An interesting idea.

I think the critical issue is that God is rearing up, training on this boot-camp orb

those to RULE AND REIGN WITH CHRIST

over countless ages and worlds . . . "know you not that you shal judge angels?"

Seems to me Satan would have some motivation to sabotage that plan every way he could.

However, I think satan's chief motivation is raw vengeance. It's the only way he can throw sand TOWARD God's eyes--by trashing God's favorite Creation.

Satan's bitterness and rage seem to know no bounds. Perhaps you've known people like that.

I'm glad so many of you have a spiritual victory going for you.

I hear precious little talk of how it's not true, or how it's going to change, or so on. Because people have given up on humans fixing this and now it takes [Insert Deity] to fix it. Only reinforcing my initial point more.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


I believe you my friend are correct in your plan. I wouldn't swat the hornets nest either... also I believe those that follow your type of plan will be the ones that eventually may ALL be on the same page and possibly be able to do something when it all settles. It scares the bejeezus outta me to think about someone like myself though... A single woman with not even one weapon left, this economy caused me to sell that last year. What in the world will someone like myself do in this situation???? Hopefully make it long enough to group together with others like yourself, keep that in mind when you are out there surviving whatever is about to befall us all!

reply to post by Astyanax


My point was that a fractional reserve system is ridiculous and should not be followed. It will ruin a society every time it is instituted. A central bank does the same thing.

In the digital age there is a need for some amount of virtual money, but it should be backed up with something real and tangible, If I have physical material, be it gold or silver or pancakes, then it has intrinsic worth that is much less likely to implode on itself and your in fantasy land if you think that there is more gold than could be used. You're confusing correlation with causation. We don't use the gold that we have as much as we could BECAUSE we've given it more worth not used, not because we don't have a use for it.

Jaden

America's been toppling all those countries to "give those people freedom"....LOL!


Maybe China will be our savior and give Freedom back to Americans. They could be the True White Brother of the Hopi Indians, remember their prophecy about it will be really bad if the True White Brother comes from the West.


George Washington needed France to finance/support making America Independent.
Lincoln needed Russia's entire Atlantic and Pacific Naval Fleets in Union Ports to defeat the South/Civil War.


Ron Paul will need China to restore America and get our freedoms back. It will be ugly....but our kids may be better off and would have roofs over their heads and jobs.

We're literally at the point where nearly anything is better than just letting it happen the way it is playing out now.

reply to post by apacheman


One of the top five best post on ATS I've seen in the past several years.

You're going to have a lot of people disagree, but most people are stupid and can't see see or admit that the reason we are in the mess we are in is because we are not following your advice.

:u p: :

reply to post by thejlxc


Great post my friend, you have relayed how a lot of good people are feeling at this time. The future looks bleak, the 1% have won in terms of greed and wealth and we all feel angry and cheated BUT!! They do not dictate to us as effectively as they once did. More and more people are figuring out that this "debt" is imaginary, its nothing more than another fear based tool, like terrorism or rumours of a Hillary Clinton sex tape.

However it ends at least 99% of the people didn't whore themselves to greed

S+F

reply to post by 5mok3r


I'd love to agree but the way it is right now. If 15 percent rose up, they'd be put down handily. Then it goes for a while, then another 15 percent rise up, and are put down. I agree if the "awakening" breaches 50 percent. THEN some crap would change in a hurry. But 50 percent? Not in America. Not yet.

Well said my friend. The sad fact is almost no one is willing to stand up for their rights. They are all waiting for the next person to make a move

Let's just call a do-over.

I'm very serious. Erase all debt, erase all wealth, do over. Everyone grab a house or keep the one you're in, keep whatever "stuff" you have, and start again. It's a debt-based economic mess, so the only way to fix it is with radical and immediate reform. It's all vapor anyway...we'll recover fast enough.

I do not believe a debt-based economy is the real problem, I just think it helps the controllers. In my opinion, so long as human beings allow governments to standardize and control economies there will be no peace and no freedom.

Even if we all traded gold or tulips, if the government is allowed to regulate what an ounce of gold or a single tulip is worth, what tulips can or cannot be imported or exported, or how gold is permitted to be mined, someone will always be able to buy-off government to do their bidding (ie. to place a stumbling block in front of the rest of us).

Economy is one of the key pillars of a civilized society. If you know what a civilized society is actually designed for, then it comes as no surprise that economy is designed to control the masses and benefit the few. In fact, I contend that civilized society, as it is currently designed, is intended to be a formula which benefits the few at the expense of the many.

The key pillars of a civilized society are: economy/trade, government, religion/morality, and the arts and sciences (including the dissemination of them, which is found in language and education). We are told that these things offer us protection, simplify our lives, and promote progress, but do they really? And progress for who? Is working 60+ hours a week just to pay rent/mortgage, electric, food, etc. with a constant fear of the government coming down on you for something really progress for the individual?

mandrake1975.hubpages.com...

Now, I'm not saying the idea of civilized society is bad, or that I am unhappy to have running water and electricity, but I am merely pointing out the cost there is to individual liberty by having this stuff SO LONG AS the formula for civilized society is maintained in the same manner and for the same purpose.

Who created the formula and how long has it remained unchanged? Sure governments have changed and so have economies, but they've always been run the same way and intended for the same purpose, which can be seen in the formula for creating, developing, and maintaining a civilized society. If the formula created by a few has remained unchanged, is it any wonder that a few greedy and power-hungry people have had rule and control over us for thousands of years, and continue to do so?

Central banks and debt-based economies are not the root of the problem, in my opinion. The root of the problem is that society itself is not designed for any of us to have the actual individual liberty that many of us desire. Society is designed for us to think we have individual liberty so that we keep working for and paying homage to the few at the top who rule the masses of society and care only for the preservation of that mass (not the individual) in order to maintain their cozy position at the top, and to progress without doing much of anything. In other words, the grasshoppers progress at the expense of the lives, time, and liberty of the ants.

Civilized society is not wrong, but I do contend the formula for it is not friendly to individual liberty by any means, nor was it ever intended to be. Doing just a little research on civilization through the lense of philosophy, sociology, and anthropology is all it takes to "get it". Many talk about how we are pretty much called sheeple in Plato's Republic, but few ask where the very formula being used by Socrates came from in the first place. They say we've been controlled for thousands of years, but they neglect to say how exactly. Well, here is the answer.

That is my take, take it for what it is worth to you. We're in a lot of trouble because we've always been in this situation. Nothing has changed about the game, only how the rules are played.

reply to post by HillbillyHippie1


Look. If the rules were changed, as you say, on Purpose for all the wrong reasons, by the people I am talking about, it's still their fault. They changed education, control the media, wage war of any and all kinds unchecked, bring drugs into our country and then put us in jail for it, and child abuse rings, and on and on. There certainly are people to blame. With names, and addresses. Real people.

I do not feel you are right entirely, but I can see how you see that.

reply to post by thejlxc


Thank you for the post, the debt is very important and goes back to one key instance that could have helped at least America be possibly debt free and that was the election of 1984. Mr Walter Mondale was beat in a landslide election losing all but one state but America didn't realize the mistake they made. Walter Mondale was part of the original liberal democrat movement increasing taxes for nearly everybody. This was an unpopular idea and likely isn't the best idea during a recession however, when reagan was running for reelection the economy had stabilized and was heading to decent growth - though not like the Clinton years - and taxes could be raised. Unfortunately Americans don't like taxes and weren't willing to cope with the fact that their 200 billion dollar deficit would eventually become 15 trillion due to the neoconservative movement for less taxes and the neoliberal movement of more spending and higher taxes on the wealthiest individuals, which probably still couldn't balance the budget even in the Clinton years. The abandonment of traditional liberalism has led to the government being unable to increase revenues and cut spending during economic expansion. Ultimately America fell for the charms of mr. Reagan and the sound bite "I will not let my opponents youth be a part of this election" instead of looking at the records and the long term health of the country