OP/ED: The Republican Convention: It's 1968 All Over Again.

Skeptic Overlord: thanks for pointing out something that my work schedule caused me to miss on the news, and thank you for presenting it in an extremely fair light. I strongly doubt that any major news source would have refrained from either painting the protestors as dangerous radicals or the police as jackbooted thugs trying to stop any and all free speech.

Sadly the truth isn't THAT far from the second option, IMHO. They are crossing a very serious line by trying to tell Americans when and where to protest. I think i've been pretty patient with the government, because I understand that there are outside threats, and I honestly just dont believe that those challenging this government can adequately defend us from those outside threats. This is too far though: this has nothing to do with protecting against real threats. Now we've gotten into paranoia against our countrymen- the bedrock of any good Stalinist Regime.

They could bring in a couple thousand national guardsmen with Bradley Fighting Vehicles and Apaches- the whole 9 yards. I wouldn't bat an eye if an AC-130 was circling overhead with orders to uncreate the entire city block at the first sign of a riot. (well, maybe my left eye would sort of twitch, but i'd understand it).
There's a big difference between telling people that violence will not be tollerated and telling people that trying to get their message across will not be tollerated. All most of these people want to do is gather in a great big group to show everyone out there who feels the same way that there are enough of them to win if they all do their part for this election.
That's great, even if I do think that they're a bunch of far left wackos. Between far-left wackos who get out and accomplish their goals, and far-left wackos who hope their goals will come in the mail along with their welfare check, I prefer the former- so good for them.

I've said it before and I continue to believe this, even though i admit that nobody who says such a thing can be taken too seriously until the time comes for him to back it up- the way things are going, I'm going to end up against our government too, and I'm not gonna go all the way to the East coast just for a peaceful protest. I'm not saying I'll blow up anything. I'd be OK with something simple and fun that would ensure good media coverage for starters- like kidnapping wolfowitz and making him do that hillarious slobbering on the comb thing that he was caught doing in F-9/11.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
This is 1968, again. Thirty-six years ago, an angry populace felt compelled to make their voices known over what they believed to be an unjust military action by the U.S. Government. Echos of the reported Vietnam atrocities are seen in the abu gharib prison torture and abuse situation.

Sorry, that analogy doesn't even come close.There's no comparison between Abu Ghraib and the atrocities that happened in Nam. I suppose some hold the two to be equivalent, and use it as a reason for outrage. But the situations back then were different, the intensity was higher, the severity of the actions was higher, and the policies were different.

Today, those who committed the acts at Abu Ghraib are being prosecuted, while one of those who committed Viet Nam atrocities is running for president.

And to tie a police action to a political party isn't intellectually honest. It's almost like some are blaming this incident, too, on Bush. Raymond Kelly and Michael Bloomberg are responsible for the NYPD, not the people at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Indeed, the attributes of individual items influencing the current situation are different. But we can't deny the big picture similarities: a split nation -- a controversial war -- distrust in an administration -- a major political convention. Haunting.

Well let see what a quarter of a million people most of them protestors will do to the city of NY on wed.

Originally posted by marg6043
Well let see what a quarter of a million people most of them protestors will do to the city of NY on wed.

Don't have to wait that long Marj - the biggest day of protests is tomorrow from what they can tell, if we make it past that , it might be okay.

[edit on 28-8-2004 by Relentless]

Thanks relentless,

You brought up some good points to this thread, and I agree with you, I will be glue to the TV tomorrow and to ATS to keep on the news from the front, (I mean NY City) I think all the eyes and cameras will be tune to that city in the next week

The units that responded were ill-trained and came right from riot duty elsewhere; they hadn't had much sleep. The first day, there was some brutality; the Guard bayonetted two men, one a disabled veteran, who had cursed or yelled at them from cars. The following day, May 4th, the Guard, commanded with an amazing lack of military judgment, marched down a hill, to a field in the middle of angry demonstrators, then back up again. Seconds before they would have passed around the corner of a large building, and out of sight of the crowd, many of the Guardsmen wheeled and fired directly into the students, hitting thirteen, killing four of them, pulling the trigger over and over, for thirteen seconds. (Count out loud--one Mississippi, two Mississippi, to see how long this is.) Guardsmen--none of whom were later punished, civilly, administratively, or criminally--admitted firing at specific unarmed targets; one man shot a demonstrator who was giving him the finger. The closest student shot was fully sixty feet away; all but one were more than 100 feet away; all but two were more than 200 feet away. One of the dead was 255 feet away; the rest were 300 to 400 feet away. The most distant student shot was more than 700 feet from the Guardsmenetc....
There was also an undercover FBI informant, Terry Norman, carrying a gun on the field that day. Though he later turned his gun into the police, who announced it had not been fired, later ballistic tests by the FBI showed that it had been fired since it was last cleaned-- but by then it was too late to determine whether it had been fired before or on May 4th etc.....

www.spectacle.org...


Skeptic O,

Thank you for opening the door. I believe we are are about to have Deja Vu. It is smoke and mirrors, it is a set up.
This Convention should never have been planned for NYC, ask yourself what were they thinking? It should have been staged in the Heartland, like Duncan Oklahoma, for many reasons! Or call them both off, since in neither party are there challengers. Could have saved over 100,000,000 taxpayer $'s!
Instead it is going to be held in the Heartland of the American Revolution. What do you expect to happen, Hippies putting flowers in the gun barrels kids smoking pot. Your absolutely correct this is no longer "68"
Most of the protesters will be over 45 and relieving their idealistic youth,
can you blame them.
As in the 60's it will be the progressive youth if there are any. If they have not been brainwashed by Brittany "Barbie" Spears, Reebok, etc.... into mass complacency. If they are not blinded by CNN

Originally posted by marg6043
Thanks relentless,

You brought up some good points to this thread, and I agree with you, I will be glue to the TV tomorrow and to ATS to keep on the news from the front, (I mean NY City) I think all the eyes and cameras will be tune to that city in the next week

Personally, I can't bear to watch, to much of my friends and family there, but that is why I still watch so closely, even though I left NY state after 911

Yep thats what happens when you gather a bunch of hooligans around. Pretty soon they would have vandalized, and not clean up after their mess.

geez - I know I will get it for this, but I just want to say before anything happens, and I hope I'm wrong.......

I do not envy the cops or the people who love them who are in the middle of this.

Just another angle.

Originally posted by tututkamen

If the kids in suburbia and the ghetto figure out they are going to go to war for a few, if they realize all there freedoms are no longer going to be free. Then and only then will all hell break loose. Unless some idiot fires a gun. The only way to avoid confrontation is to have a extremely low profile of uneducated cops. And this is not going to happen.

Freedom has never been free, except for the child who has not achieved the age of reason. Hell doesn't break loose when this is realized. More often, a sense of social responsibility is awakened.

You speak of those who will try to relive their youth, and say, can they be blamed? If they choose to roll marbles under police horses' hooves. or if they douse themselves with gunpowder to confuse and antagonize those tasked with protecting us, then they can not only look forward to being blamed, but prosecuted. And they will have deserved it. Exercising your right to protest is one thing. You cannot justify inciting violence in this situation.

Icombent is my will to arrest the misconception we are doomed in the international eye as being politically barbarous. It is true: the only violence at Madison Square Garden will be the spawn of law enforcement sent to finish a disappointing heavyweight bout.

I'm pretty sure the ACLU will be there, but with so many people there will be

I don't approve of any of this "protest zones" and "polite behaviour" crap, if they want to protest then they will do it, right to free assembly, right to free speech.

I secretly hope it escalates into a full scale riot just to show them what happens when you step on the rights of a citizen. Once the first head is cracked and they begin arresting them then it'll erupt. But of course the police will have it sectioned and sliced and diced so that people can be isolated if needs.

They won't stand for it. It's too much.

Nerdling,

"I secretly hope it escalates into a full scale riot just to show them what happens when you step on the rights of a citizen."

This quote from your own fingers says, "I can't keep it secret. I am angry!"

Why is it necessary to inflict harm, when it is the infliction of harm you protest?

[edit on 28-8-2004 by Jack Martin]

[edit on 28-8-2004 by Jack Martin]

Also, if you are democrats, you only succeed in strengthening the republican ticket by your abhorrent behavior. If you wish to create an alternative party, I suggest you attend one of our reputable establisments of higher learning to adjust your thought mechanism to the affinity of such.

Because sometimes it takes fire to fight fire.

With cliches aside, The Police are their to uphold the law, they don't "make decisions" or "make compromises," they are employed to uphold the law to the letter...

But, now we see "protest zones" and "acceptable behaviour clauses" with people going into MSG signing "loyalty waivers" which effectively tie their name to BushCheney 2004. This isn't right, its indefensible.

The rights of civilians are being quashed under this boot with those in power thumbing their nose and saying "ain't sheet you can do about it son." The 2nd amendment was to protect against Government tyranny right? The right to bear arms and maintain a well equipped militia, Right? Thats what the NRA say.

I see the destruction of the rights of free speech and free assembly to be pretty damn near the top of things that merit the publics "intervention".

It takes alot for me to say this, I'm a pretty mild mannered liberal but i genuinely believe that this is the point where we need to say "no".

Originally posted by Relentless
geez - I know I will get it for this, but I just want to say before anything happens, and I hope I'm wrong.......

I do not envy the cops or the people who love them who are in the middle of this.

Just another angle.

I hear ya, man. you make perfect sense.

there are more than two ways to look at this dilemma. I would like to entertain the notion we are above violence, where violence has run its course.

Its no suprise.

Shut you mouth and go home. Work your job and keep your opinion to yourself. Welcome to the NWO.

Like some of us keep saying, get used to it because its going to get worse unless you do something about it.

Slowly slowly America will bound and gag its own. Britian too!

Can you see the signs of the time yet..??

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
Its no suprise.

Shut you mouth and go home. Work your job and keep your opinion to yourself. Welcome to the NWO.

Like some of us keep saying, get used to it because its going to get worse unless you do something about it.

Slowly slowly America will bound and gag its own. Britian too!

Can you see the signs of the time yet..??

I promise you a world of open mouth. Continue to write on this page. We are all enhanced in purpose.

Apparently we have many that are unable to read the writing on the walls,
"written on subway halls" The same instruments of evil that produced Vietnam are producing this mayhem. And believe they have learned from their prior mistakes and have laid a better foundation.
My largest fear is that they have and there will be little if any opposition to their objective. The planning has been immaculate. It will be over before anyone even wakes up.
Trials and Tribulations, no Big Deal,

TUT