Greece Shutdown by Nationwide Strike (Oct 5)

Sad how some people sell to self pity and refuse to see where it all begins and how it really works.
These "forgiving" souls are the cause and cement of this fortress of corruption, crime and ignorance.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Convicted

 

My friend the debt of nations is the result of governments gambling with the nations wealth in order to create wealth for the bankers Central banks business is to in debt nations so they can profit.

But that worked for a while, until the corrupted Gambles in the US (Goldman Sach) made a mistake bringing the markets down with the dirty derivative business, Every bank and nation that were gambling on it fell down the crapper.

What you see now with the EU crisis is the domino effect of the 2008 market mortgage crash that the US started, all those derivatives are still circulating around and more has been created because is a vicious cycle that the Market gamblers can not get off of it.

What the nations government do they create more fake money to counteract the damage, but is not working, because fake money is just that fake money with no real wealth to back them up.

Is not the populations that are the problem is the Gamblers in the Markets.

Hope you get Applause from the mods for that Marg,
You couldnt have put it better. Too many people are forgetting the real cause of all the present woes.

PEACE,
RK

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by AnonymousFem

 

Please explain to me the mechanism the banks use to MAKE a country take a loan when it is not first asked for?

Dont tell me to educate myself then make statements like the one abovet.

I have a University education and have travelled the world with my work extensively since the 1970's. I have seen first hand the results of the FORCED loans from the BIS & IMFon thirld world countries (Oil & mineral rich countries - of course).

In a nutshell the mechanism of which you speak is as follows:

The loans are offered to the governments of resource rich countries to make improvements to infrastructure, utilities,education, medicare etc . If they do not accept them, the head of government is removed and replaced with a US sympathetic puppet(s).
The loans are then accepted and then the contracts for the work are awarded to US Corporations to build roads, power gen & distribution systems, hospitals, schools, mining & oil E & P. The countries are kept in debt because of the corrupt US puppet leaders continuously syphoning any proffit from resources into private accounts and making minimum payment on the debt whilst all the time the "juice" on the loan is running.
US corporations benefit from the contracts, the banks benefit from the never ending payments and the US Govt benefits because they have the UN vote on any subject from a country endebted to them.

Banks control Corporations and Corporations control Governments so Its all about the banks mate, always has been. The banks create the nightmare we live in and have been doing so since your grandpa was a boy.

Your answer to my OP was flannel. You do not detail any Austerity measures so I am thinking you do not know what 4 phases of measures have been taken already or those that will be implemented on the Greek people by their Govt in the future.

I suggest you read through them here because this is what every citizen in Europe and the US are probably going to have imposed on them:

livingingreece.gr...

If you bothered to read them, you will surely now understand why the Greek people and even that dog are on the streets protesting I am not saying all of them are unjust but many of them are, they target the people and not corporations and huge business..

Privatizing industry will only benefit the government in the short term. Privatizing railroads is a nightmare. Ask the British people about the privatization of all industry by the Conservatives in the 80's and look at the mess the UK is in now. Whats needed is better management and performance based incentives.

PEACE,
RK

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by nuttin4U

 

I think you are correct!! Let the Greece stuff spill over. Let the OWS stuff turn into an organized strike. Bring the whole thing to a crushing halt until we can do things correctly.

You should start a FB page, or add your ideas onto the OWS pages. Can't recruit on ATS, but as a State Worker that has not had a raise in 7 years, and has had additional deductions from my pay for 2 years in a row, I would support it!

There's only ONE way i see, bringing that into fruition...and i just don't think people are WILLING to give up their, so-called: "Lavish Lifestyles", for someone else's problems.

If we're gonna succeed as "PEOPLE"....we're gonna have to go back, to America, BEFORE America became so "large". We're gonna have to take it back to the basics by: baking our own bread, milking our own cows, building our own communities (homes, business, schools, hospitals, community centers, etc), growing our own crops...and bartering with each other...instead of using cash! We'd have to go back, before cars were even thought about....and rebuild this thing....from the ground up. America is BIG enough....and VACANT enough to redo this thing. And, it's people are EDUCATED enough, to help speed up the rebuilding process.

Give them (banks) their houses back....and let's go out to the mid-west (where there's PLENTY of land) and do things...the "old fashioned" way; MANUALLY!

Now, ask yourself.....are 'the people' really gonna give up...this system...for that? hahahahahahaha I hardly think so! Maybe, AFTER the collapse...someone will come up with this BRILLIANT idea. "Hey, i know, let's share!" "Yeah, yeah....that might work!" "If we STICK TOGETHER, we just might pull this off!" "Pack your bags boys....we're heading west. Mid-west...to be exact!" "Yeeee-haaaw!"

Don't the rest of the frogs feel the temperature rising. Leap frogs, LEAP....we're boiling!

reply to post by Rigel Kent


That post all makes perfect sense to me, and i agree.

However not ALL situations will be as you describe. In some cases, it is simple mismanagment at the govermental level. I would suggest that is Greeces case. Just look at their finances, its not hard to find information online. They have spent so far beyond their means on simple social programs and bloated governmental bureaucracy for so long it isnt funny.

The Greeks are in serious need of an overhaul. Im not sure if your suggesting the Greeks sold out their resources to the West. If so, which ones?

reply to post by Rigel Kent


Well thank you I fee humble.



Yes, it is in the business of banks, central banks to keep their money flowing, this is accomplished with lending, the money is make on the interest of the loans, actually is not expected to be repay but to keep the country been leached for ever, the collateral is the countries natural wealth and occurs their citizens.

People here in the US we are the best example of how our wealth is leached and we are the collaterals

I already posted a few pages back how the Fed raises money and create money.

Greece bailouts are to pay for the interest of the loans they owed, no to help the nations, that is why austerity is forced into the citizens so the bankers can keep reaping their interest money.

America has the biggest debt per capital right now, of all but we can print money to make look better and we have our dollars backed by oil if it wasn't for that we would have collapsed a long time ago.

Is America the most In debt developed country in the world?

It depends how you read the debt.

www.dailyfinance.com...

reply to post by nuttin4U


Yep. 100% correct.

There are 3 elements of change.

1. Enough discomfort or dissatisfaction with the status quo....
2. combined with a clear picture or solution of a better future.

OR
3. An event that makes change inevitable.

Right now, we don't have a significant enough 1, or a clear enough 2, but we are quickly approaching a 3.

Yes, I am one of those people that would love to get the change underway, but my own lifestyle is still pretty comfortable. I can see it evaporating within the next 12 months, and then I will be ready to make major sacrifices or risks, but for now, I am content to bide my time. Most of the nation is still like me, but our discomfort is growing exponentially.

Either a very clear Leader with a #2 style message needs to emerge, or
Our discomfort needs to reach a threshold for #1 to break, or
#3 will spill over the lands from Greece and OWS, or some form of violent retribution, or some other polarizing event.

I think it is just around the corner one way or another.

www.godlikeproductions.com...

Tel-aviv, Israel, tonight. half a million protesters against the economic & political system!

And an impressive pic.

a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net...

No reports about this in the MSM

Source:

weirdloadreboot.com...

reply to post by DangerDeath


Half a Million in Israel? The NYC ones are supposed to be growing a lot tonight as well. And, we are coming into a weekend, so more people might be able to join!

Doesn't seem to be fizzling does it?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Half a Million in Israel? The NYC ones are supposed to be growing a lot tonight as well. And, we are coming into a weekend, so more people might be able to join!

Doesn't seem to be fizzling does it?

edit on 6-10-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

Yeah. My worry is this hasn't hit the headlines. Instead, 400 Abrams sold to Greece (where the heck are they getting money for that?). Something really stinks here.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
The people were suckered into You can have your cake and eat it to....sort of like most of the United States, Canada and Europe....and now they are finding that you can't. Social entitlements with no way to pay for them, the buck stops somewhere.

(and yes, before someone tells me, the greedy bankers had their hands in this mess as well)

I hear this sentiment of "social entitlements are the problem" all the time from our Chase Manhattan and Bank of America paid for News in the USA.

Come to think of it, NPR hasn't had a tough investigation of DuPont or ADM since those companies became commercial sponsors.

>> When you sound just like the "mavericks" who got paid from PR agencies -- it's time to consider that your opinion may be the result of propaganda.

Social Spending CANNOT bankrupt a state because that money goes back into the economy. What CAN bankrupt a state, is Banks and financial shenanigans. Greece might have had a large and unproductive government -- but follow the money. Whoever has the most money out of this Greek Tragedy, is obviously the one who profited from it.

By the way, Goldman Sacks was making a bundle shorting Greek Currency -- since they have more money than many countries -- they can manipulate an entire nation. Teams of Hedge funds did the same to Bear Sterns as well -- and if they can bankrupt the company/nation, they stand to make HUGE returns by shorting that stock or currency.

>> You CANNOT make something for nothing without it eventually destabilizing an economy -- that is true. So how can "Financial Services" in the USA make 40% of the profits in 2008? It produces nothing of value, and the ONLY reason stocks were originally of any use was to raise funds to make "capital investments" in a growing company -- but today, stocks are gambling chits used to place bets, and the money is made by playing the market -- not investing.


So who ended UP with the money? The culprit is fairly easy to see if you 'just follow the money' -- and that is why this "saying" stands the test of time.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


I know exactly what you mean, media in the US is so taken over by private interest that what we get to hear and see is nothing but manipulated crap, I knew how the banksters got into the Greece corrupted government deals and one of the big reasons Obama wanted to bail Greece again is because if the go down is not only the EU to go down but Goldman Sach will take a big hit.

The crocks are everywhere when is a government willing to sell their owns country soul for profits.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

Originally posted by MidnightTide
The people were suckered into You can have your cake and eat it to....sort of like most of the United States, Canada and Europe....and now they are finding that you can't. Social entitlements with no way to pay for them, the buck stops somewhere.

(and yes, before someone tells me, the greedy bankers had their hands in this mess as well)

I hear this sentiment of "social entitlements are the problem" all the time from our Chase Manhattan and Bank of America paid for News in the USA.

Come to think of it, NPR hasn't had a tough investigation of DuPont or ADM since those companies became commercial sponsors.

>> When you sound just like the "mavericks" who got paid from PR agencies -- it's time to consider that your opinion may be the result of propaganda.

Social Spending CANNOT bankrupt a state because that money goes back into the economy. What CAN bankrupt a state, is Banks and financial shenanigans. Greece might have had a large and unproductive government -- but follow the money. Whoever has the most money out of this Greek Tragedy, is obviously the one who profited from it.

By the way, Goldman Sacks was making a bundle shorting Greek Currency -- since they have more money than many countries -- they can manipulate an entire nation. Teams of Hedge funds did the same to Bear Sterns as well -- and if they can bankrupt the company/nation, they stand to make HUGE returns by shorting that stock or currency.

>> You CANNOT make something for nothing without it eventually destabilizing an economy -- that is true. So how can "Financial Services" in the USA make 40% of the profits in 2008? It produces nothing of value, and the ONLY reason stocks were originally of any use was to raise funds to make "capital investments" in a growing company -- but today, stocks are gambling chits used to place bets, and the money is made by playing the market -- not investing.


So who ended UP with the money? The culprit is fairly easy to see if you 'just follow the money' -- and that is why this "saying" stands the test of time.

Wrong on several levels, but I had to make one point.

Social spending CAN bankrupt a nation. Let's just say for the sake of argument that 100% of your workforce is on the dole. So, since everyone is.getting handouts, no one is left to create a real economy. Your not suggesting it is possible for no one at all to do anything constructive and yet still have a viable economy, are you?

You are also missing one other important aspect. Much of what we but or consume here in the west is produced elsewhere. So while we may tax and tarrif this items, most of the profit goes overseas. This is not helpful.

Banks and governments are crooks. If you look at the Greek books since their manipulation of their finances in order to join the EU has come to light, it is very obvious they have badly mismanaged things for a very long time.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

I know exactly what you mean, media in the US is so taken over by private interest that what we get to hear and see is nothing but manipulated crap, I knew how the banksters got into the Greece corrupted government deals and one of the big reasons Obama wanted to bail Greece again is because if the go down is not only the EU to go down but Goldman Sach will take a big hit.

The crocks are everywhere when is a government willing to sell their owns country soul for profits.

We all have to remember in this mess that GOVERNMENT is just individuals. Individually, these politicos got elected in a corrupt, "slush fund", bankster financed way -- and we got what that system would produce. We can no more coordinate the activities of over 300 million people without some sort of a government than we can have jobs without some sort of Company to do it.

The GENIE got out of the bottle when banks were privatized and corporations got too much power. There shouldn't be such a thing as a "multinational" in the first place.

If Obama pulled out of some wars too quickly, or went after Goldman Sacks for their manipulations -- he wouldn't last very long. The media and all the compromised politicians would descend on him like vultures to road kill.

>> Not that I'm sure he has ever been on our side -- it's just that practically, it's hard for him to do anything BUT sell out to Corporate interests and be a pretend adversary for Republicans.

reply to post by nightbringr


A "real economy" is pretty hard to define.

Your "example" of 100% is pretty extreme. Farmers are less than 1% of the workforce -- yet they feed us and a few other countries with food to spare. How many people are Doctors and home builders?

Take all the teachers, emergency services like firemen and doctors, and then people who "make things" and I'd say you'd be lucky to get 5-10% of the population.

I do multimedia for Marketing at some Financial Service corporation -- my job produces nothing of value -- I'm OK with that. A corporate lawyer will sue some other corporation for patent infringement -- because we have a copyright/patent system that creates scarcity NOT -- the reverse of promoting the best ideas, and the inventor likely will get less than the lawyers or corporate owners from the innovation.

Most Developers are not "producing". Unless you are one in a million at math, or the one guy creating new algorithms in software -- you are likely re-inventing the wheel at some corporation to track employee benefits, or creating some entertainment on a smart phone. Entertainment does have SOME value -- but it's the opposite of "productive" -- it might keep us sane, but I think as I've become more entertained and stressed out from low pay -- I've become a LOT more unproductive. So for every hour spent creating a video game or movie -- there is probably a thousand times less "production" in the workplace.

.... so if we have an EXTREME but more reasonable model of 90% Social Spending on government employees -- you can have just as much STUFF produced, and still not go bankrupt.

Take every real estate agent, lawyer, tax accountant, person haggling with a health insurance company and pay them to do NOTHING. Get rid of all advertisements, graphic artists, and salespeople because we just order what we want from the "government" allocation department and someone makes it and ships it.

88% sit on their ass and contemplate the meaning of life, maybe finger paint, stay in school and get 5 PhDs and maybe one day contribute something of value. 2% redistribute and administer. 5% produce and another 5% take care of things that break down or need enhancing, R&D and the like. That pretty much is the world Gene Roddenberry envisioned in the first Star Trek. They didn't even have an economic system -- just people "earning" the privilege to risk their lives exploring -- a true meritocracy.

With robotics, one day, you could have a true Greek Democracy -- but instead of 90% of the population being slaves, you have machines.

>> Now you have been TRAINED to think like an industrial age person -- but the problem with that is when we hit the "singularity" -- when Computers are smarter than people. A robotic factory doesn't need thousands of employees -- and the corporation of the future may not even need outsourced labor in China.

Our planet CANNOT survive our constant growth economic model for much longer -- so it's going to either be a huge number of corporate wars and PROGROMS to reduce populations -- or it's going to be Socialism and managed resources. Take your pick.

>>> But the "end of labor" is crashing into us at the same time we've got this economic problem masking the BIGGER problem. You can either live in a police state where people guard each other and fill out paperwork, or in a society where everyone gets a certain share, and it's a privilege to "do something of value."

I'm motivated to do a lot of cool things -- most great innovators just want to CREATE. Money motivated people are the minority and I'd argue -- not that useful when all is said and done. I was a hell of a lot more motivated when I didn't have to think about my paycheck in College.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

Originally posted by MidnightTide
.... Much of what we but or consume here in the west is produced elsewhere. So while we may tax and tarrif this items, most of the profit goes overseas. This is not helpful.

Banks and governments are crooks. If you look at the Greek books since their manipulation of their finances in order to join the EU has come to light, it is very obvious they have badly mismanaged things for a very long time.

>> I have to address these other comments:
Much of what we but or consume here in the west is produced elsewhere.

Very true -- but what does that REALLY MEAN?
It means, that the REAL PRODUCERS don't get jack squat out of this "system" we enjoy. The Sweat Shop in Honduras cranks out jeans for pennies an hour and they are sold at TJ-Max for $30. It doesn't hurt our balance of trade all that much, because the "owners" of this system made all the money. What DOES bankrupt America, is all the offshore accounts and tax havens that these multinationals have set up. The very wealthiest are not paying taxes -- not even that 15% on capital gains. The REAL money-makers, have an ATM card that draws from Bermuda and they never see their money and neither does the IRS.

Dick Cheney, when not helping Haliburton reduce asbestos claims or selling Saddam weapons, made a mint helping millionaires and billionaires set up offshore accounts. For every DOLLAR in tax breaks to the top 2% that Bush gave out after 2001 -- 2 DOLLARS of increased foreign "investment" occurred. So, it was the REVERSE of a job creator or economic boost to lower these taxes. Without that and the two or three wars -- we wouldn't even have a trade deficit.


>> No, America imports more than it exports but we made lots of money because companies like Goldman Sacks made money from money deals. The WTO -- which has finally been forced out in most developing nations, made sure that "austerity measures" were put in place for "in debt" countries -- so that their resources would always be priced by the Debt Owners and too cheap to pay off the debt.

The same Predatory Capitalists that may have set up deals in Greece did the same thing all over Latin America. If a politician wouldn't deal -- there would be a small plane crash and the next one would. Read; "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" if you doubt that. While a few sleazy politicians in Greece might have become millionaires -- follow the Billionaires -- those are mostly on Wall Street. If the Greeks and the German banks are broke -- who GOT THE MONEY? It didn't just disappear. By the way, I think Goldman Sacks made about $40 Billion in profits shorting Greek Currency right when they were about to go into default -- it made it impossible to refinance.

You can do that in a rigged system. Anyone PLAYING in the Globalist Economic Banking and Ponzi scheme, is merely economically surviving at the whim of the House. Any country that Goldman wants to take out in Europe (except maybe Germany or England at the moment), would follow Greece into bankruptcy. The MEDIA makes it seem like it was social spending and the LITTLE PEOPLE that caused it. Just like the MEDIA informs us that the Middle East has always been at war, but doesn't ever report on who sold who the weapons or might have paid to have a mosque blown up to create a war. But the oil flows cheaply and the rich get richer.

Getting the poor to fight the poor for crumbs has been the name of the game for a couple thousand years now.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Greece should jump out of the EURO and start printing their own money.

They shouldn't have been allowed into the European Union in the first place.
-----------
That would be a good step 1.

I'm not sure about the other steps.
It's a mess over there and it was ALL predictable.
I see the people of Greece have been set up to fail.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


I'm afraid you're correct and that is the only solution to the world's economic woes. But it will mean a WWIII and subsequent peace treaty could mean a forgiving of all foreign debts, and every economy can reset itself.

Nothing says we have to go to war first. If the government could exercise any common decency and honesty, they could just skip the war and go straight to the global peace treaty, but that would mean admitting faulty management and major mistakes and they probably don't have the moral fortitude to do that. Instead, expect false flags, escalating tensions, major alliances, a short war, and then the treaty.

Hi everybody. I cannot start a new thread so I am replying here.

General strike begins in Greece
A 48-hour general strike against austerity measures begins in Greece, grounding flights, halting most public services and closing shops and offices.

Greece has shutdown once again in one of the largest if not the largest protest during the last 10-15 years.
More than 100.000 people have gathered in Athens alone.

Article:
BBC

Live feed:
Watch live, Syntagma Square

reply to post by Sarpidon


Very interesting and thanks for the update, so Greece is at it again, they are fighting the government take over I guess this fight will go on for a long time until either a coup will be the result or the government goes against the citizens militarily.