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Why that war was necessary.

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posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 09:36 AM
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Many peoples fails to understand many things with that " war ".

1) First of all, removing Saddam and setting a democracy is a good thing for Irak and her peoples BUT also for the rest of the free world.

2) ALL middle-east nations ( except Isral
) are all dictatorships. And we know all ( even you the so-called anti-war ) that the less dictatorships there is on earth, the better we are.

3) Dictatorships are good ONLY for the tyrants, not for the vast majority of the peoples who have to live under these dictatorships. Do you think that the nowdays Germans want to live, one more time, under a nazi regime ? No, they want to keep their democracy ! They payed an heavy price to have it. More than 6 millions germans have been killed during the WW2 ( 1939-1945 ).

4) As like there is a price for everything, some Irakis will die in that war. It's a sad fact. But another fact is that if we don't do something against Saddam, many Irakis will be killed by Saddam. And that time, it will not be some hundred or even some thousands of Irakis who will die,due to that war, but thousands and thousands and thousands...etc...etc..

So, ask you that question : If we stop that war, what will you say to the peoples who will ask you why they still have to live ( die ! ) under the Saddam regime !?

This is my opinion, and this is why I think that most of the anti-war protestors have just find another new good reason to show their anti-americanism ( and probably anti-Isral too ). Also, probably that a little minority cares only for his little a$$ and don't really care about the Irakis and their future. In fact, all the anti-war don't care if it's for oil or not, or if it's for freeing Irak and her peoples.

The real reason, the ONLY one, they can show their anti-americanism and they can take their " revenge ". After all, the communism/socialism failed all around the world.

And who's responsible ? The USA of course, not these hideous ideology, isn't it ?


I know this scenario because I had to deal with it in the eighties, but with another " war ", the Cold War !




posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 09:48 AM
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1) Agreed, but not if USA is just going to put another puppet government.
2) Agreed, but USA should be careful, because it's the mainstay of a whole religion that you are against. Don't start fires you can't extinguish.
3) Agreed all the way.
4) Seem you actually saw my signature link. Great.

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
So, ask you that question : If we stop that war, what will you say to the peoples who will ask you why they still have to live ( die ! ) under the Saddam regime !?

Before USA started the war, there were executions there on Iraq, agreed, but not to the same degree Iraqis are dying now because of this war and the actions commited by *both* fronts. Saddam regime is a bad one, but there were far worse nearby. Why Iraq then? The 1st conclusion you reach (not necessarily the true one) is: oil. 2nd is water, and thus, control over mid-eastern countries.

[Edited on 2003-4-7 by MakodFilu]


dom

posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 10:03 AM
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Honestly, I have no problem with the moral argument. (assuming the Iraqi people actually want regime change, and they may well).

However, that's not the reason we're at war. Publicly the reasons were WMD and terorrist links together, bringing up the horrible thought of a biological 9/11. Fact is, they're only pushing the regime change argument right now because they're getting scared that they won't find any WMD's.

And even the WMD reason isn't the actual one. This war is all about American influence in the Middle East. There is no way that we (US/UK) would go to war to remove a dictatorship. What would be the point? What would we gain?

So yes, getting rid of Saddam is a nice side-effect. But this doesn't justify the war, because that's not why this war is being fought. And that's where my opposition to it comes from.



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
Many peoples fails to understand many things with that " war ".


And also many fails to understand that this war has nothing to do with what they say on the official news. It's a wrong war. In a couple of years you'll see.


1) First of all, removing Saddam and setting a democracy is a good thing for Irak and her peoples BUT also for the rest of the free world.


Heard that soo many times, but everyone fails to explain why. I've never had any troubles in the 30 years that Saddam was on powe, so why suddenly it's is better ?


2) ALL middle-east nations ( except Isral
) are all dictatorships. And we know all ( even you the so-called anti-war ) that the less dictatorships there is on earth, the better we are.


Yes indeed, so we will fight them all right ?
If yes, than it is true what they think, even if you know it's not like that. There are 2 things, the truth, and what peolpe think is the truth. And the latter is more important.


3) Dictatorships are good ONLY for the tyrants, not for the vast majority of the peoples who have to live under these dictatorships. Do you think that the nowdays Germans want to live, one more time, under a nazi regime ? No, they want to keep their democracy ! They payed an heavy price to have it. More than 6 millions germans have been killed during the WW2 ( 1939-1945 ).


Democracy is not better for the vast majority of peoples either, look how "bad" we in the west live, high crime rates, poverty, homeless peoples, democracy is only good for the ones having money. And compared to the world population there are only a few with real money. The rest only have debts, loans etc... they have to work for the rest of their life to live. Waw that is great isn't it ?
Since we don't know any better, yes it is a great thing for some of us. Those who never had to sleep a night without food, even in a western country.


4) As like there is a price for everything, some Irakis will die in that war. It's a sad fact. But another fact is that if we don't do something against Saddam, many Irakis will be killed by Saddam. And that time, it will not be some hundred or even some thousands of Irakis who will die,due to that war, but thousands and thousands and thousands...etc...etc..


Oh yeah, this is one of the points I hate so much, why Iraqi's ? What is wrong with all the other nations ? What about the Palestinians for example, why is no one waging a war to liberate them ? Like I've said many many times before, this has nothing to do with the Iraqi people. Bush doesn't even care about his own people. Pay good attention on what he want to do for Iraq. Too bad you're not American because you'll know that those plans are far more better than those for Americans themself. America is not perfect, there are many many problems there. So how can Bush promise things he can't even make America a safe nice and sound place to live.


So, ask you that question : If we stop that war, what will you say to the peoples who will ask you why they still have to live ( die ! ) under the Saddam regime !?


I will tell them, do it your self, many other have done so, there are way too many peoples here on earth who needs to get liberated, just like Saddam came to power, others can do so. They don't need Americans to help them. Saddam's regime is not the only regime here on earth, in Africa peoples day daily because of lot's of things, like war, hunger, oppression, and so on.


This is my opinion, and this is why I think that most of the anti-war protestors have just find another new good reason to show their anti-americanism ( and probably anti-Isral too ). Also, probably that a little minority cares only for his little a$$ and don't really care about the Irakis and their future. In fact, all the anti-war don't care if it's for oil or not, or if it's for freeing Irak and her peoples.


LOL, as if you care about the Iraqi people, you only care for America, if it wasn't for America no one would ever know the situation of others, I know more about this whole thing. Without the oil American economy will colapse. The danger is that the Euro is gaining ground on international level. America is a imperialist. Believe it or not, I don't mind, I do see enough evidence for that.


The real reason, the ONLY one, they can show their anti-americanism and they can take their " revenge ". After all, the communism/socialism failed all around the world.


Well that is the problem with most narrow minded people, they can only think with terms... so if you're against America;'s plans you're a communist... well too bad, that way you'll never learn something new. Conservatives like I call it.


And who's responsible ? The USA of course, not these hideous ideology, isn't it ?


No it's not USA who's responsible, it's peoples like you and me who are responsable, we let them control us, we don't think for ourself, we listen to their media and buy everyting they tell us. I mean why aren't you mad about the fact that Saddam was a friend of USA before they got mad at him ? Where's the responsability of America who helped Saddam (and many other dictators) Why don't you never talk about that ? Don't you see that they cause all these problems themself ? Now for example they are helping Pakistan which have lots of Terrorist camps... wait 5 more years and see for your self how Pakistan will be attacked because they don't need them no more.


I know this scenario because I had to deal with it in the eighties, but with another " war ", the Cold War !


Well you see, the point most pro war freaks forgets is the fact that just because of this new policy of the Americans, more and more countries are seeking for NUKE's for example, they know there is a chance that America will attack them. For us living in the west (who doesn't know better than this ) it may seems like a good thing, but I only see more terrorist attacks, it's pretty easy to inject a person with a deadly virus and send him or her around the west... Look at SARS for example, it's sooo easy to infect the whole world.

And also look at some Eurpean countries, Belgium, France and Germany are talking about one big European Army in order to have a word on international politics. Look at what Powell said a week ago, "I will listen to what role NATO want to play in the 21st Century" America is on it's own now...


In the place where I live I had never any danger from anything, but now America forced us to with them, or against them, and now we also have threats, that is what I hate, because America want to protect it self it drags us into this conflict.....

Well this is my last reply on this whole thing, I don't care anymore what anybody thinks, if you are for this war, and the rest... it's up to you.. if you are against it... it's up to you.... all I know is that for me, it's just a waste of time to keep posting over and over again about the same topic, while many many peoples are living in pretty bad circumstances, and for them there will never be help because their country has nothing of value for the imperialists.

This is not about Saddam folks, it's about the American Economy which is BAD. Do you really think America will spend sooo much money, risk the lives of it's people to liberate the Iraqi people ? WHOEEHAHAHAHHA., yeah right. Ever wondered how much this war costs ? And also ever wondred who's gonna pay ? And now look at the directors of the companies that may rebuild Iraq. All I know is that some powerful peoples are gonna get very richt with American tax money.... But I don't care anymore... just believe what they tell you.. they are honest to you, I swear !

I had to hurry posting this so pardon me my mistakes.. I'll edit later if needed. I just can't stand people seeking for excusses to say this war is good.



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 10:31 AM
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Your mistakes aren't the typos.

Your mistakes are to assume this war is not what it is clearly about but about some shadowy reason only liberals can see, to not see that Hussein has made the world a more dangerous place the last several years (he is a part of the puzzle to the Twin Tower collapse, and the people that were effected by that haven't gotten along allright the last 30 years in spite of Hussein and a few others), that we won't get around to dealing with the others, and that "Palestinians" need liberating. I assume you mean from the Israelis, as most people who say that type of comment do.


dom

posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 10:45 AM
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So TC, you're telling me that this war is being fought why?

The link with 9/11 is non-existent. Stop being fooled. You don't have to swallow everything your government suggests...

And it's totally obvious that the Israel/Palestinian situation needs to be sorted out by having two states living side by side. The West Bank and Gaza are indeed currently occupied by Israel, so I don't think it's too much to argue that making them not-occupied by Israel is equivalent to liberating them.



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 10:58 AM
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It was originally played to tip the scales in the UN...when that didn't happen, it still had to be touted, less the other reasons take center stage. Personally, I think the real reasons are still worth it though...



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 11:11 AM
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TC, dude just give it up. They aren't ever gonna see Saddam as the bad guy. he could have been flying one of the planes on 9-11 and they still would not see. They don't see what went on in Salman Pak, they won't here reports of Alqeada camps found and bombed in N. iraq. they are in their own worlds but if this was a liberal doing this, they'de be right behind it. Its all political.


dom

posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 11:46 AM
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astro - more uninformed misrepresentations of the truth.

a) anti-war protestors are not pro-Saddam, or at least in my experience that is the case. Certainly I am not.

b) There were no al-Qaida camps found and bombed in N. Iraq. These camps were Al-Ansar, an Iranian Islamic group who had secured an area of N. Iraq on the Iran/Iraq border. These people were not funded by Iraq, and although there are possible links with Al-Qaida, no-one has suggested that these are active Al-Qaida camps.

c) There is no need to give up trying to convince me of anything. Show me facts, evidence, and I may change my mind. But so far, your "facts" are just uninformed misrepresentations.



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by MakodFilu

1) Before USA started the war, there were executions there on Iraq, agreed, but not to the same degree Iraqis are dying now because of this war and the actions commited by *both* fronts.

2) The 1st conclusion you reach (not necessarily the true one) is: oil. 2nd is water, and thus, control over mid-eastern countries.



1) I don't know exactely how many of his own peoples Saddam killed, but I'm definitively sure that the war will kill far less peoples than Saddam has already killed and will still killing in the future if he's not remove from the power. Also, see the future.After the war, no more tyrants in Irak will kill Irakis peoples. How many life will be saved ? 10k ? 100K ? More ???

2) Ok. And even if you right, what's the problem ? Oil, water, uranium(?), who minds ? THEY WILL BE FREE FROM A TYRANT ! Isn't it the most important thing ??????



Originally posted by TigeriS

1) And also many fails to understand that this war has nothing to do with what they say on the official news. It's a wrong war. In a couple of years you'll see.

2) Heard that soo many times, but everyone fails to explain why. I've never had any troubles in the 30 years that Saddam was on powe, so why suddenly it's is better ?

3) Democracy is not better for the vast majority of peoples either, look how "bad" we in the west live, high crime rates, poverty, homeless peoples, democracy is only good for the ones having money. And compared to the world population there are only a few with real money. The rest only have debts, loans etc... they have to work for the rest of their life to live. Waw that is great isn't it ?
Since we don't know any better, yes it is a great thing for some of us. Those who never had to sleep a night without food, even in a western country.

4) Oh yeah, this is one of the points I hate so much, why Iraqi's ? What is wrong with all the other nations ? What about the Palestinians for example, why is no one waging a war to liberate them ? Like I've said many many times before, this has nothing to do with the Iraqi people. Bush doesn't even care about his own people. Pay good attention on what he want to do for Iraq. Too bad you're not American because you'll know that those plans are far more better than those for Americans themself. America is not perfect, there are many many problems there. So how can Bush promise things he can't even make America a safe nice and sound place to live.

5) I will tell them, do it your self, many other have done so, there are way too many peoples here on earth who needs to get liberated, just like Saddam came to power, others can do so. They don't need Americans to help them. Saddam's regime is not the only regime here on earth, in Africa peoples day daily because of lot's of things, like war, hunger, oppression, and so on.

6) LOL, as if you care about the Iraqi people, you only care for America, if it wasn't for America no one would ever know the situation of others, I know more about this whole thing. Without the oil American economy will colapse. The danger is that the Euro is gaining ground on international level. America is a imperialist. Believe it or not, I don't mind, I do see enough evidence for that.

7) No it's not USA who's responsible, it's peoples like you and me who are responsable, we let them control us, we don't think for ourself, we listen to their media and buy everyting they tell us. I mean why aren't you mad about the fact that Saddam was a friend of USA before they got mad at him ? Where's the responsability of America who helped Saddam (and many other dictators) Why don't you never talk about that ? Don't you see that they cause all these problems themself ? Now for example they are helping Pakistan which have lots of Terrorist camps... wait 5 more years and see for your self how Pakistan will be attacked because they don't need them no more.

8) just can't stand people seeking for excusses to say this war is good.



1) I'm pretty happy that peoples like were not in power, in the USA, during WW2.Otherwise, I was reading Mein Kampf and barking " Heil Hitler " all the day long !

2) " I've never had any troubles in the 30 years that Saddam was on power "......Sure, you wasn't living in Irak !

3) Hey TigeriS, if you want, you can leave your country. You're allways spitting in the soup. If we were listening you, I wonder in what kind of world we would have to live ? If you don't like democracy, you can go where there is a dictatorship. We will see if they let you opening your big mouth.

4) Well, if you think that you can be much better than Bush, what are you waiting for ?
May be that you have " THE " solution ? You've a good occasion here. Why not explaining us what's " THE " tigersiS solution ?

5) " Do it yourself " ? WOAW ! It's so stupid that I don't find the words to explaining you why it's so stupid. And you believe in this motto ?
I understand many things now....


And we can liberate EVERYBODY in the same time. Do you know the domino game ? You push the first one and the rest.....

EXACTELY ! Peoples are dieing in Africa, India, South-America, North-America, Europe...EVERYWHERE in the world. That's why we have to do something. And democracy is the best solution for all these problems.

You're complaining, but you're not acting. And when someone ( GWB ) try to act, you're barking against him.

Spitting in the soup....


6) Yes tigersiS, I CARE FOR IRAK ! Like I care for the whole world, not only for the USA or for my a$$.
But I agree with you on 1 thing. We can think that the USA are imperialist. But do they have choice ??? Who will act if they don't act ? The EU ? The CEI ? The Chicoms ???????? There is 2 kind of imperialism. The good one ( setting up a democracy ) and the bad one ( i.e : Former USSR in Afghanistan ). Helping the others nation is a duty ! There is many ways to help them. Removing their tyrants is one of these ways.

7) Bha, we are all, in a way or another one, a little bit brainwashed. And I know that the whole world was " friend " with Saddam. And yes, I'm disgusted that we made some deals with him. But what ? Is it a reason to don't do something against him ? Is it a " good reason " to letting them ( the Irakis ) dieing on his bloody hands ?

For Pakistan, I 100% agree with you. This country should be on the rogue state list !


8) I'm waiting for the end of the war, when all the Irakis will be free. When they will feel that they can speak. We'll see what you'll have to say. Like the Italians did it with Mussolini, they'll dance on the Saddam dead body !
But even there, you'll find a good excuse to say that the war was wrong. May be it would be a good idea to send you in Irak, in the after Saddam Irak. You'll explain them why the war was wrong.I bet they'll listen you very carefully........



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 02:41 PM
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Dom, well my opinions come from sources just like yours. You call my opinions uninformed misrepresentations yet you list alternates and give me no real authentication either. I could be right same as you could. Its all in how you look at it, besides, I don't think my above comment was directed at you. In fact I think it was specifically directed at TC. I'm not going to call you a liar as you have me but I get my news from different news sources and that doesn't mean they are wrong. The guys I listen to are on the tanks with the soldiers and show footage. I saw footage of the terrorist camps in the North both before and after it was leveled. I think most of America did and I'm sorry if you didn't. But which is credible? Iraqi news is saying Coalition forces aren't even in Iraq and they surround the Information Minsitry right after that. Just because its reported doesn't mean its true. I know that pertains to me too. No, I did not first hand see Alqeada guys in the camp. Maybe it was a group of BoyScouts for all I know but it seems that a lot of people who think Saddam is such an evil guy are going to really far lengths to make sure he's not linked with 9-11. Why? Why ,when there is so much evidence would so many put their credibility on the line to illiminate it? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm seriously curious. I think this may be one of the most important aspects of all this. How can you and others shake their head and say an adimate "NO" when there is cause to think so? How do you know already? Why are you willing to put up for such a evil man?



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by dom
So TC, you're telling me that this war is being fought why?

The link with 9/11 is non-existent. Stop being fooled. You don't have to swallow everything your government suggests...

And it's totally obvious that the Israel/Palestinian situation needs to be sorted out by having two states living side by side. The West Bank and Gaza are indeed currently occupied by Israel, so I don't think it's too much to argue that making them not-occupied by Israel is equivalent to liberating them.


You should stop saying that everything that is said over here (unless it is said by a liberal or a actor!
) is a lie. To say this war is unjust is in itself unjust, to still deny the need for Hussein's ousting is to fly blind and to deny the true reasons Germany, France, Russia and China went steadfastly against us is to ignore evidence and just stand against America because it is now the Euro-chique thing to do.

Israel "occupies" that land because it belongs to them. It is theirs. It ws stolen and then taken back. It is the property of the Israelis.
Two states are necessary, you say. But you refuse to even whisper a word against the Arab nations that placed the "Palestinians" in the position they are presently in. You deny the fact that the "occupied" land is Israeli land, it was the Arab stares that launched wars against Israel since her being, the same nations who could easily afford land for the Palestinians but refuse as they are using those poor people as a weapon against the Jewish state, and you ignore the words of the Arabs over there that make it clear that there will be no peace until they destroy Israel. A Palestinian state will bring no peace.

There is no comparison between Israel and Iraq.



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 03:56 PM
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have already made it clear, that they do not desire a Palestinian state....they desire the destruction of Isreal, and then the establishment of all of Isreal as the Palestinian state. The only thing that keeps peace from being reality there, is the Palestinians themselves.

Strangely, people lose the willingness to negotiate with you when you light a bomb on your back, wander into a cafe, and blow up women and children...just one of those quirky traits I guess....



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
1) I don't know exactely how many of his own peoples Saddam killed, but I'm definitively sure that the war will kill far less peoples than Saddam has already killed and will still killing in the future if he's not remove from the power. Also, see the future.After the war, no more tyrants in Irak will kill Irakis peoples. How many life will be saved ? 10k ? 100K ? More ???
But *why* Iraq first? There where easier and most cruel dictatorships nearby. In fact, on all the place. No matter how many people killed Saddam, even more die daily on Iran, Pakistan,...


2) Ok. And even if you right, what's the problem ? Oil, water, uranium(?), who minds ? THEY WILL BE FREE FROM A TYRANT ! Isn't it the most important thing ??????

As already stated, it's a *strange* thing to start with Iraq, to say the least.


Some responses you did to TigeriS:
1) I'm pretty happy that peoples like were not in power, in the USA, during WW2.Otherwise, I was reading Mein Kampf and barking " Heil Hitler " all the day long !
Now you are watching the History and Discovery channel and barking "God save USA" even not being one of its citizens. Don't see the difference.


6) ... We can think that the USA are imperialist. But do they have choice ??? Who will act if they don't act ? The EU ? The CEI ? The Chicoms ????????
Why not, why not and why not? No one gave USA the star to be the sheriff of the world. USA, as any other country, backs it's interest *first*, not the Iraq interest first, nor any other country interest first. So *any* of the aforementioned candidates is a worthy one.

Anyway There is 2 kind of imperialism. The good one ( setting up a democracy ) and the bad one ( i.e : Former USSR in Afghanistan ).
There are no 'goods' or 'bads': such differentiation you are doing is childish.

Helping the others nation is a duty ! There is many ways to help them. Removing their tyrants is one of these ways.
But only if you don't put your own tyrant there.


8) I'm waiting for the end of the war, when all the Irakis will be free. When they will feel that they can speak. We'll see what you'll have to say. Like the Italians did it with Mussolini, they'll dance on the Saddam dead body !
But even there, you'll find a good excuse to say that the war was wrong. May be it would be a good idea to send you in Irak, in the after Saddam Irak. You'll explain them why the war was wrong.I bet they'll listen you very carefully........
Iraqis are surely grateful for the food and water provided... given the stresses that war gave them. Anyway, I just don't see grateful sights on their faces: you saw any? I didn't. Desperate sights only.



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 09:20 PM
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In respect to why Iraq try that is the first country to apply Chemical weapons since WWI.



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

2) ALL middle-east nations ( except Isral
) are all dictatorships. And we know all ( even you the so-called anti-war ) that the less dictatorships there is on earth, the better we are.


Qatar is not a dictatorship. Qatar is (I am almost positive about this) the only democracy in the Middle E.



posted on Apr, 7 2003 @ 10:32 PM
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The REAL reason for this war... has nothing to do with terrorism, oil, or anything else.

xmb.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 8 2003 @ 12:46 AM
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Why Iraq first? Becuase Saddam has more or less proven to be the most unstable leader. He has attacked many surrounding countries and his own people and has proven he has no desire to to stop. I don't think there is any one reason, but more so a bunch that add up, where as some other countries may be worse in one area or another, but not in total. I think the reasons range from things like oils and money, to helping bring a little more stability (which will never be complete until isreal palestine issue is resolved), removing WMD, and freeing Iraqi people. Some of the reasons are good, some are bad. Those against the war will only point out the bad reasons, those for it will only point out the good ones, but I don;t think it's so blank and white.

As for the Isreali occupation, while I am not for it, it's a buffer zone to protect Isreal from attacks. They started the occupation after being sneak attacked by all the surrounding countries. Much to everyone's surprise little Isreal kicked all their asses and occupied that land to prevent it from happening again. Without that land they could easily be attacked again and not be able to proect themselves. What's really wrong though is for them to build housing in that land. Another big problem is that even if they came to an agreement and made two seperate states, there are some on each side who don't want the other to exist and will do anything to jeopardize it. The suicide bombings would not stop even if the two had two states because extremest would want to incite war (I am sure this goes for both sides). I don't think this should be reason not to make independant states, but more so a reason of why there is so much relucance.


dom

posted on Apr, 8 2003 @ 06:29 AM
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astro - fair enough. You take your news from the US media. As far as Al-Ansar goes...

www.intl-crisis-group.org...

This article talks about why the PUK would want these guys done in, and says that any links with Al-Qaida are uncertain and unproven.

BTW, I don't doubt you've seen before/after shots of these camps, but the question is whether or not these camps are Al-Qaida linked, or terrorist camps in the first place...

And the answer to your question about why the government would lie about this is simple. This government wants a war on Iraq, they also wanted UN backing, to get UN backing they had to prove terrorist and WMD links. If they couldn't prove it they at least had to convince their own populations (US/UK) that this was the case. That's why conclusions have been jumped to, that's why Colin Powell has been shown to have said things which can't be proved on a number of recent occasions.

It's a shame, but it's true. The UK/US governments have been distorting the truth, if not lying, to us, the people. And that's a conclusion reached from looking into a lot of different aspects of the current crisis.

Honestly, I'm not a pacifist, I'm not a conspiracy theorist (although I think there are sometimes grains of truth within them), I just honestly believe that this war has been misrepresented to the US/UK people. And I really hate being lied to!


dom

posted on Apr, 8 2003 @ 06:35 AM
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Just to seperately talk about Israel and the west bank/gaza. I don't see how gaza is a buffer zone. I don't see how the whole of the West Bank is a buffer zone. The Golan Heights were a buffer zone. Gaza is a seperate area, walled off from anywhere else, with a small shared border with Egypt. The West Bank could vaguely be considered a buffer zone to Jordan, but Jordan isn't a clear and present danger to Israel.

These areas have just been taken over by Israel, many Israeli's do actually think like TC, that these lands were always part of Israel, but you'd have to go back before the birth of christ to reach a point where they were a part of Israel. That's most definitely ancient history.

To solve this problem you need seperate states, until that point the Palestinians will remain polarised against Israel. Are you surprised they want to see Israel gone having lived under a brutal occupation for this length of time? A Palestinian state is needed to start de-radicalising the Palestinian populace. There's nothing wrong with having a big buffer zone between the two, nothing at all, but they have to govern themselves (and the settlements need to be removed).



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