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The Morality Of Saving People From Hell

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posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by BlueSkies
As said I agree with you much truth can be found in the words of the bible and also in other ancient texts. I just do not resonate with the fears associated with the religions of the world.


Enjoying your posts.

I grew up Christian - - but my mom also believed in "many paths". That each person must travel many paths to find their own.

My findings are Spirituality (god from within) is more real truth - - - then any "worded dogma". Those who argue who is a True Christian by the interpretation of biblical text (or other text beliefs) - - - are ridiculous. No gracious way of saying that - - nor do I choose to.

I did find - - - once you step completely out of the "god circle" - - - you sever yourself from the energy euphoria of shared thought/experience. It truly is like a drug.

I am now drug free.




posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 






My findings are Spirituality (god from within) is more real truth - - - then any "worded dogma". Those who argue who is a True Christian by the interpretation of biblical text (or other text beliefs) - - - are ridiculous. No gracious way of saying that - - nor do I choose to.


I am confused.. you seem to imply in many posts that you are atheist..yet now you state you believe in a "god from within"..

maybe I am confused in what you believe.. but stating that "God is from within", could basically be as much of "imagination" as the bible and jesus, is considered to be for you.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by Annee
 






My findings are Spirituality (god from within) is more real truth - - - then any "worded dogma". Those who argue who is a True Christian by the interpretation of biblical text (or other text beliefs) - - - are ridiculous. No gracious way of saying that - - nor do I choose to.


I am confused.. you seem to imply in many posts that you are atheist..yet now you state you believe in a "god from within"..

maybe I am confused in what you believe.. but stating that "God is from within", could basically be as much of "imagination" as the bible and jesus, is considered to be for you.


Read carefully. Many paths. I traveled many paths. Over many years. Many experiences in various religious beliefs - - including Spirituality groups.

BUT - - - how do I sign off on the post you are referring to?



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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Do me a favor and GO TO HELL for me and come back and let me know how it was? Okay? If you can't prove to me there is a place, then in my mind............You are a WACK job.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
Do me a favor and GO TO HELL for me and come back and let me know how it was? Okay?


I went to the Justin Beiber concert. It was never-ending torture. Even Jesus can't save you from that torment. You have been warned.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


here is one post where you mentioned being atheist.. I included every word you posted..


Mormons are Christians. One of the best organizations I've ever been involved with - - - in my 60 year search for god. Ending result being Atheist. If I ever find a non-religious group organized like the Mormons - - - sign me up immediately.


another where you mentioned you are atheist..again whole post included..


Uh huh - - - I was a believer for 50+ years. I admitted to Atheist only the last 5. When you are Atheist for 50+ years - - then admit you are a believer the last 5 - - - we might then have something interesting to talk about. Christians have a serious persecution complex. I know. I was one for many years.


another.. again whole post



Those "silly titles" are attached to - - political power and money. Taking power away from religion (specifically Christian) in this country is NOT a problem -- it is a NECESSITY. And that is the main reason for Atheists organizing.





I do not agree with that at all. In my experience - - Atheists on "general" blogs/forums - - mostly speak up in response to God believers - - who speak first. Christians have a serious persecution complex - - and are intolerant of any rejection/dismissal of their belief.


These are only a few, because I do not want to take the time to go through each and every page.. these being from the first dozen or so..

It appears you are an atheist, who has serious issues with Christianity.. and feels it has no grounding in any truth...which you are entitled to think...I just find it odd that you would go on to say .. "My findings are Spirituality (god from within) is more real truth - - - then any "worded dogma".




I grew up Christian - - but my mom also believed in "many paths". That each person must travel many paths to find their own. My findings are Spirituality (god from within) is more real truth - - - then any "worded dogma". Those who argue who is a True Christian by the interpretation of biblical text (or other text beliefs) - - - are ridiculous. No gracious way of saying that - - nor do I choose to. I did find - - - once you step completely out of the "god circle" - - - you sever yourself from the energy euphoria of shared thought/experience. It truly is like a drug. I am now drug free.


maybe your drug is now just some new aged concept of what God is?

Just trying to find out if you are truly an atheist, or just someone who had changed your views on spirituality, and now view God as something different than what you were taught when you were younger.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
Just trying to find out if you are truly an atheist, or just someone who had changed your views on spirituality, and now view God as something different than what you were taught when you were younger.


Read it again: "My findings are Spirituality (god from within) is more real truth - - - then any "worded dogma"."

I am not saying - - - I believe in Spirituality. I am saying IMO - - (for those who do believe) - - it is more real truth - - - then any "worded dogma".

I am also not saying - - you can't be a Spiritual Christian.

I am Atheist. I do not believe in a deity. I do believe everything is energy and a creation of energy. I have discussed it on other threads. It is not the subject of this thread.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 





I am Atheist. I do not believe in a deity. I do believe everything is energy and a creation of energy. I have discussed it on other threads. It is not the subject of this thread.


What is the subject of this thread.. is christians believing they are helping others by warning them of hell..

You have said much on the subject of atheism , and admitted to being one.. and why.

Believing everything is energy and created of energy could well apply to christianity as well..

there is no proof.. for your beliefs... and they are simply that...your beliefs..which you are entitled to having..as much as a christian is entitled to theirs.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011

there is no proof.. for your beliefs... and they are simply that...your beliefs..which you are entitled to having..as much as a christian is entitled to theirs.



There is ZERO real proof for any god belief.

Where exactly have I stated Christians aren't entitled to their belief?

My opinion statements DO NOT in any way denote another's opinion statement.

I believe the Terra Papers are probably closer to the truth then anything else. Where am I stating anyone else should or needs to believe the story in the Terra Papers? I'm not. Nor am I claiming them as truth or fact.

So - what is your problem?



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 





There is ZERO real proof for any god belief. Where exactly have I stated Christians aren't entitled to their belief? My opinion statements DO NOT in any way denote another's opinion statement.


hmmm.. maybe its just me..but what exactly do you mean by some of the statements you make in your posts.




Who the hell cares about "god's words". If someone is hungry - - - show up at their door with a bag full of food - - - and keep your mouth shut.






I do believe there is truth in the bible - - - as most stories have truth in them. I do not believe the "mythical bible Jesus" story at all. I mean zero.





That really does sound like an imaginary friend. I wonder what one would imagine in a friend - - if they had first not been told the truly non-believable story of Jesus.


Seems to me you have been ridiculing Christians and their beliefs this whole thread.... yet you say in the post i have replied to they have a right to their beliefs..

Please forgive me for my confusion, but you don't come across as someone who feels christians are entitled to their beliefs...

as a matter of fact in one of your posts..you said they needed to be taken out of positions of power, by atheists.

trying to find it..but lots of pages here..

ahh here it is..




Those "silly titles" are attached to - - political power and money. Taking power away from religion (specifically Christian) in this country is NOT a problem -- it is a NECESSITY. And that is the main reason for Atheists organizing.


Does^ that^ sound like someone who believes that others have a right to their beliefs?











edit on 5-10-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
Seems to me you have been ridiculing Christians and their beliefs this whole thread.... yet you say in the post i have replied to they have a right to their beliefs..

Please forgive me for my confusion, but you don't come across as someone who feels christians are entitled to their beliefs...


I cannot speak for Annee but I see in your post here a common misconception, and perhaps it applies here. Though many atheists just might ridicule religious beliefs they also understand the importance of having a right to one's beliefs. In my case, I respect everyone's right to have whatever belief they wish, but I do not have to respect the belief itself.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 





Though many atheists just might ridicule religious beliefs they also understand the importance of having a right to one's beliefs. In my case, I respect everyone's right to have whatever belief they wish, but I do not have to respect the belief itself.


This I can understand.. and totally agree with..

let me ask you this ..do you agree with this statement below ?




Taking power away from religion (specifically Christian) in this country is NOT a problem -- it is a NECESSITY. And that is the main reason for Atheists organizing.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011



There is ZERO real proof for any god belief. Where exactly have I stated Christians aren't entitled to their belief? My opinion statements DO NOT in any way denote another's opinion statement.

Writings are not proof of anything. They are writings. For authenticity - they require concrete proof to back them up.



Who the hell cares about "god's words". If someone is hungry - - - show up at their door with a bag full of food - - - and keep your mouth shut.

And your problem with that is?

If I am hungry - - I don't want to hear someone reciting a bunch of words. Words don't feed people. I want to be fed.



I do believe there is truth in the bible - - - as most stories have truth in them. I do not believe the "mythical bible Jesus" story at all. I mean zero.


And your problem with that is? Am I telling you those stories are not real for you? No - I'm not.


That really does sound like an imaginary friend. I wonder what one would imagine in a friend - - if they had first not been told the truly non-believable story of Jesus.


It does.


Seems to me you have been ridiculing Christians and their beliefs this whole thread.... yet you say in the post i have replied to they have a right to their beliefs.


Again - - where have I denied you the right to your belief?

I grew up Christian. I speak about what I know from my experience and my opinion in regards to.

Do you see me speaking or giving opinions on Islam or Judaism? No - you don't.


Please forgive me for my confusion, but you don't come across as someone who feels christians are entitled to their beliefs...


IMO because I spent many years as a Christian. Many (not all) Christians do have a persecution complex. They have a problem with anyone who can't see they are "right" and Jesus is the way. They don't understand why anyone would reject Jesus. It hurts them deep in their soul.

Not my problem. It is yours to accept not everyone accepts Jesus.


as a matter of fact in one of your posts..you said they needed to be taken out of positions of power, by atheists.


America is a secular government. God does not belong in government.



Those "silly titles" are attached to - - political power and money. Taking power away from religion (specifically Christian) in this country is NOT a problem -- it is a NECESSITY. And that is the main reason for Atheists organizing.



Does^ that^ sound like someone who believes that others have a right to their beliefs?


It sounds like you want to deny my rights as a citizen of a secular government.

Obviously - - that post was in response to another post.

American Atheists Aims and Principles

American Atheists, Inc. is a nonprofit, nonpolitical, educational organization dedicated to the complete and absolute separation of state and church, accepting the explanation of Thomas Jefferson that the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States was meant to create a "wall of separation" between state and church.

www.atheists.org...

edit on 5-10-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I agree that writings are not proof of anything Annee, and I don't have a problem with how you came to your conclusions.. and beliefs..and quite frankly understand where you are coming from..for the most part.

I can't see where state and religion will ever be totally separated, as many laws are based on religiously inspired moral beliefs.

If every level government would be run by atheists..would we not end up with laws that are still based on the concepts of an atheists morality?



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
I can't see where state and religion will ever be totally separated, as many laws are based on religiously inspired moral beliefs.

If every level government would be run by atheists..would we not end up with laws that are still based on the concepts of an atheists morality?


What is Atheist morality? Sounds like you are trying to insult me.

Ethics come from integrity and responsibility. God is not required.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 





What is Atheist morality? Sounds like you are trying to insult me. Ethics come from integrity and responsibility. God is not required.


Insult you..?? I suggest you read that post again, and tell me how I am insulting you? Perhaps you have a hint of that persecution complex , that you feel Christians have?

A belief of God is not required to have ethics of integrity and responsibility, but some "form" of belief is required to judge what is integral, and what is responsible.

If a person grew up to believe that it is the strong who survive, could they not abolish help for those born with challenges that others do not face?

They could say its mere science that dictates that the weak should be left to perish?

There are many good Christians who have their moral integrity because of what has been taught to them as concepts of Christianity. Perhaps much of your moral integrity comes from what you sub conscientiously learned as a child, from those with christian beliefs?

Who is to say.. that an atheist born to cold hearted scientist.. might be very much lacking in what he believes is moral and integral...compared to how others view things? Perhaps he feels he is totally justified in using "less than perfect' humans for experimental purposes.

















edit on 5-10-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


ROFLMAO--Hilarious



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by Annee
 





What is Atheist morality? Sounds like you are trying to insult me. Ethics come from integrity and responsibility. God is not required.


Insult you..?? I suggest you read that post again, and tell me how I am insulting you? Perhaps you have a hint of that persecution complex , that you feel Christians have?


The fact you don't even know what you said that could be construed as insulting - - - says a lot.

I really don't care. I was just trying to make a point. And you just made it.


edit on 5-10-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
let me ask you this ..do you agree with this statement below ?

Taking power away from religion (specifically Christian) in this country is NOT a problem -- it is a NECESSITY. And that is the main reason for Atheists organizing.


I do agree that taking away the power of religion (though I may word it differently) is probably more beneficial to society than otherwise. However I'm uncertain as to whether this is the reason atheists are organizing.

I do live in a state that has religiously-inspired rules on the books that do and can affect me. Everything from the inability to purchase alcohol on Sunday to the threat of prosecution for having certain varieties of sex with my own wife. Certainly religion should not have the power to impose its will on the unsuspecting masses through government force.
edit on 5-10-2011 by traditionaldrummer because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by zerimar65
I didn't say you said anything derogatory. If God doesn't exist to you, why do you keep arguing? He must exist because you feel it necessary to keep saying He doesn't. If God doesn't exist he wouldn't be so much on your mind. The nothingness of God is making you have to keep making comments about Him.


Derogatory being used as a simplified single word to capsulize your rant. Or would you prefer I drag that rant out in a post and address every single accusation you made toward me.

Where am I arguing?
Lack of belief does not require belief.
I like social discussions. This is a discussion board.
God is definitely not on my mind.

I post in a statement style - - stating what I think.

I responded to a post - - stating my thoughts on the subject - - not the poster. (First Post before rant)

Where in that FIRST post did I make any direct comments to you? Or directly disagree with your thoughts - - as in an "I'm right - you are wrong" argument?


edit on 4-10-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)


See, you did it again. You said "God is not on your mind". So, you do believe God exists. How could He not be on your mind if He doesn't exist? If we're in this back and forth discussion, you responded to something I said which would be a direct comment to me. Your entire attitude is "I'm right, you're wrong. I know. You do not" vibe. It's annoying. I realize that you are with the enemy and that's why you are all over this subject. Good day Madam.





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