Picture of Elenin "Breaking Up": Where Are the Star Trails?

I don't know anything about Elenin other than that people in NASA are for sure interested in it.
This might be because of the attention it gained.

so is the world ending on the 27th or not.

I sware, if i have to pull my end of the world party hat out of the closet one last time and nothing happens, im going to go crazy.

Originally posted by oxbow
reply to post by CaptChaos

 

We won't be bathed in the ion tail of Elenin on 25-27 September. We won't be anywhere near its tail, unless 30+ million miles away counts as near these days. My fingers are worn down to bloody stumps from having to write this so often.

Maybe you should just stop writing it, then, since that DOES count as pretty near these days.

Wikipedia is not a good enough source, right? They've got plenty of links to back this up:

en.wikipedia.org...

The streams of dust and gas each form their own distinct tail, pointing in slightly different directions. The tail of dust is left behind in the comet's orbit in such a manner that it often forms a curved[citation needed] tail called the type II or dust tail. At the same time, the ion or type I tail, made of gases, always points directly away from the Sun, as this gas is more strongly affected by the solar wind than is dust, following magnetic field lines rather than an orbital trajectory.

On occasions a short tail pointing in the opposite direction to the ion and dust tails may be seen – the antitail. These were once thought to be somewhat mysterious, but are merely the end of the dust tail apparently projecting ahead of the comet due to our viewing angle.[25]

While the solid nucleus of comets is generally less than 50 km (31 mi) across, the coma may be larger than the Sun, and ion tails have been observed to extend one astronomical unit (150 million km) or more.[11]

The observation of antitails contributed significantly to the discovery of solar wind.[26] The ion tail is formed as a result of the photoelectric effect[dubious – discuss] of solar ultra-violet radiation acting on particles in the coma. Once the particles have been ionized, they attain a net positive electrical charge which in turn gives rise to an "induced magnetosphere" around the comet. The comet and its induced magnetic field form an obstacle to outward flowing solar wind particles. As the relative orbital speed of the comet and the solar wind is supersonic, a bow shock is formed upstream of the comet, in the flow direction of the solar wind. In this bow shock, large concentrations of cometary ions (called "pick-up ions") congregate and act to "load" the solar magnetic field with plasma, such that the field lines "drape" around the comet forming the ion tail.

Blah blah. The "scientists" are just making stuff up to try to explain what's going on, but the OBSERVATIONS are not fake. Magnetic field lines (which are about as real as latitude and longitude lines) "draping" around, bow shock, induced magnetosphere, etc....this is not a boat making a wake through water. But the tails are there, they have been seen. WAY MORE THAN 30 MILLION KM. Lots of times. And the ion tail always points directly away from the Sun. The solar "wind" is A FLOW OF HIGHLY CHARGED PARTICLES. Normally this is referred to as an electric current, not "wind".

f the ion tail loading is sufficient, then the magnetic field lines are squeezed together to the point where, at some distance along the ion tail, magnetic reconnection occurs. This leads to a "tail disconnection event".[27] This has been observed on a number of occasions, one notable event being recorded on April 20, 2007, when the ion tail of Encke's Comet was completely severed while the comet passed through a coronal mass ejection. This event was observed by the STEREO space probe.[28]

I know, I know, "magnetic reconnection" is the biggest load of bs, this never can happen. Once again, everyone knows magnetic field lines don't really exist, any more than latitude and longitude lines on the Earth. But, once again, their theories as to what they are looking at are wrong, but the observations are not faked videos on youtube. The observations can't lie.

Haven't there been a bunch of CMEs lately? Coincidence, I know, that the approach of the comet coincides with lots of flareups and CMEs from the Sun. Of course the comet is not CAUSING them, but this is easily what could have happened to the comet tail. This doesn't mean it was "severed". This is PLASMA, it acts very weird and lifelike, that's why they named it plasma! The plasma is not "gone", Plasma has three different states: dark mode, glow mode, and arc mode, depending on the amount of current involved.

The CME from the Sun when the comet was at perihelion could have caused some discharge from the comet, reducing its charge differential from the positive Sun, reducing the current flow. That doesn't mean there is NO current flow. The ion tail is still there, it's just not glowing. There is almost ALWAYS a huge current flow from the Sun. Oops, I mean "wind". The solar "wind" did actually almost come to a stop for a few days one ti

This is kind of a tricky one from the get go, you would have to find how the pictures were taken in the first place. So you need sensor type, mount/tracking method, actual scope used, post processing (rotnStack, Registax) , and a few other things.

I think the first image looks like a single exposure with a little bit of PE (periodic error), so the mount (alt-az or equ?) will have star trails on this longer shot since it is not in perfect polar alignment, or the mount itself has a problem. The second one looked more processed with the grain of it and was more likely stacked pictures of shorter time IMO.

I looked the guy up that took the shots and this is what he says he uses. but im not sure if its the same in all the shots as the trails mentioned by the OP. Might be his processing that differs?

Telescope: Celestron Nexstar 11GPS
Camera: Starlight Express MX7c CCD, one shot colour 752x582 pixels. resolution of 1.9" per pixel at f/3.3 with C11 setup.
Digital Camera: canon 300D + 90-300mm zoom lens. Telescope control: Guide 8 software
Image Processing: Astroart Version 3 Observatory codes: D87 Brooklyn Park, D82 Wallaroo, 427 Stockport.

In all honesty though it doesn't really look broken up as much as dimmer from less saturation.

Good thread for the general curiosity.

Originally posted by foreshadower99
Guy's whatever!!!!!!!
What do you give or gain from proving that Elenin is still intact?
If it is going to bring a new age then we will see it come once it's time.
If it is going to bring destruction then it just will nothing to do about it.

ITS TO LATE TO CHANGE ANYTHING IF ELENIN WILL BRING APOCALYPSE JUST LIVE.
THERE IS NO DEATH.end of caps.

We might get in a quick "TOLD YAH SO" before we go.

Whoops, guess I do run on. The ion tail is still there, and when it comes between the Earth and the Sun on Sept 25-27, it will be pointing RIGHT AT US.

I know, I know, nobody's looking at those orbital diagrams correctly, the comet is not really in line with the plane of the ecliptic, right? Well, what all you "scientists" keep failing to point out is this: This is a long period comet. REAL long period. In recorded history, or as long as you "scientists" have been keeping records and trying to figure out what's going on around us, there have only been THREE long period comets with an inclination to the ecliptic of five degrees or less. And guess which one is the winner?

That's right, THIS one with a whopping 1.8! And WHEN did it cross the plane of the ecliptic? Why, just a few days ago on the 10th, so it is still quite close to being perfectly in line. On its over ten thousand year orbit, which is pretty long, it's crossing the plane of the ecliptic only two weeks before it gets in line.

But wait, there's more!

The radial electric field the Sun puts out goes in all directions, but is mostly concentrated on the plane of the SUN'S equator. Massive hubris on man's part puts the plane of the ecliptic, which everything else is measured to, as the plane the Earth is orbiting in. Most of the planets are on similar planes, but not quite exactly aligned with each other. But, the Earth's orbit is inclined seven degrees to the Sun's equator, which really should be the baseline here, but that's another ball of wax.

WHEN does the comet cross the actual ecliptic, the plane of the Sun's equator, where the current flow is highest?

Oh yeah.

TOMORROW.

So we've got the comet crossing the ecliptic a week in advance, then crossing the real ecliptic TWO DAYS before transiting the Sun. The ion tail will be pointing RIGHT AT THE EARTH. This has NEVER happened before in recorded history. But yeah, no big deal. Nothing will happen.

I'm hoping nothing will happen. But this easily could be another Carrington event. en.wikipedia.org... Back then they were nowhere near as dependent on electricity as we are now.

Now, see, it's not the end of the world. But another Carrington event? Or even stronger? It would literally be TEOTWAWKI. Everyone knows how people seem to totally freak out and start rioting and looting during major blackouts. Imagine EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD having that happen at once? And then the power just DOESN"T COME BACK ON? We're talking pretty much collapse of civilization there.

Now, I'm hoping it doesn't happen. But, I've got a big sailboat, loaded with food and weapons. I'm gonna just go for a little ride just in case. Hopefully I'll see you guys next week. If not, been nice knowing ya.

reply to post by CaptChaos


How do we go from comit dust to Carrington event? you lost me a little here. Can you explain?

reply to post by The Old American


It all depends on if the stars in the photo are being tracked or the comet is being tracked.

Let's look at the captions Michael Mattiazzo has placed on each image.

August 19:

40x10second exposures stacked on comet. C11 SCT and Starlight Express MX7c CCD imager

September 6th:

10x10second exposures. C11 SCT and Starlight Express MX7c CCD imager.

The August 19 image has been focused on the comet, the September 6th image was not.

Let's look at two images he took on August 23rd.

40x10second exposures stacked on comet. C11 SCT and Starlight Express MX7c CCD imager

Compared with....

10x10 second exposure stacked on stars.

You claim there is no consistency with his photos which isn't entirely true, he always uses a 10 second exposure when using his Starlight Express camera.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
reply to post by CaptChaos

 

How do we go from comit dust to Carrington event? you lost me a little here. Can you explain?

edit on 22-9-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

Thank you. I was just about to ask the same thing. I'm not sure Elenin's ion tail is enough to cause another Carrington event, seeing as we've solar storms throw out much more per second than Elenin's tail will throw at us in total.

/TOA

reply to post by Chadwickus


but why the star blur in the first photo?

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by The Old American
You claim there is no consistency with his photos which isn't entirely true, he always uses a 10 second exposure when using his Starlight Express camera.

I claim that space.com, a website that is looked to by hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of amateur and professional astronomers for accurate information and news, published an article claiming that two pictures may show "proof" that comet Elenin is breaking up, even though the second picture is clearly taken differently than the first, and in which the dimness can be explained by a shorter exposure, not necessarily by the comet breaking up.

There are star trails in the first pic, no star trails in the second. The photographer can use tintype for all I give a crap. But space.com might as well be Wikipedia for all the accuracy of this article has in it.

It is irresponsible, and sloppy.

/TOA

Originally posted by CaptChaos
Whoops, guess I do run on. The ion tail is still there, and when it comes between the Earth and the Sun on Sept 25-27, it will be pointing RIGHT AT US.

I know, I know, nobody's looking at those orbital diagrams correctly, the comet is not really in line with the plane of the ecliptic, right? Well, what all you "scientists" keep failing to point out is this: This is a long period comet. REAL long period. In recorded history, or as long as you "scientists" have been keeping records and trying to figure out what's going on around us, there have only been THREE long period comets with an inclination to the ecliptic of five degrees or less. And guess which one is the winner?

That's right, THIS one with a whopping 1.8! And WHEN did it cross the plane of the ecliptic? Why, just a few days ago on the 10th, so it is still quite close to being perfectly in line. On its over ten thousand year orbit, which is pretty long, it's crossing the plane of the ecliptic only two weeks before it gets in line.

But wait, there's more!

The radial electric field the Sun puts out goes in all directions, but is mostly concentrated on the plane of the SUN'S equator. Massive hubris on man's part puts the plane of the ecliptic, which everything else is measured to, as the plane the Earth is orbiting in. Most of the planets are on similar planes, but not quite exactly aligned with each other. But, the Earth's orbit is inclined seven degrees to the Sun's equator, which really should be the baseline here, but that's another ball of wax.

WHEN does the comet cross the actual ecliptic, the plane of the Sun's equator, where the current flow is highest?

Oh yeah.

TOMORROW.

So we've got the comet crossing the ecliptic a week in advance, then crossing the real ecliptic TWO DAYS before transiting the Sun. The ion tail will be pointing RIGHT AT THE EARTH. This has NEVER happened before in recorded history. But yeah, no big deal. Nothing will happen.

I'm hoping nothing will happen. But this easily could be another Carrington event. en.wikipedia.org... Back then they were nowhere near as dependent on electricity as we are now.

Now, see, it's not the end of the world. But another Carrington event? Or even stronger? It would literally be TEOTWAWKI. Everyone knows how people seem to totally freak out and start rioting and looting during major blackouts. Imagine EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD having that happen at once? And then the power just DOESN"T COME BACK ON? We're talking pretty much collapse of civilization there.

Now, I'm hoping it doesn't happen. But, I've got a big sailboat, loaded with food and weapons. I'm gonna just go for a little ride just in case. Hopefully I'll see you guys next week. If not, been nice knowing ya.

That is fascinating.

I wish I knew how to evaluate all of the information you just gave! The one astronomy class I ever took kicked my butt. It was a part of my masters' degree, and I thought it would be a piece of cake (OOPS!). Unfortunately I'm not visual-spatial enough to wrap my head around the enormity of space, with all of these objects whirling around.

There go the hairs on my arm, standing up again, at what you have just posted.

reply to post by The Old American

I claim that space.com, a website that is looked to by hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of amateur and professional astronomers for accurate information and news, published an article claiming that two pictures may show "proof" that comet Elenin is breaking up

Well the key word here is may, all evidence points to this being the case.

even though the second picture is clearly taken differently than the first, and in which the dimness can be explained by a shorter exposure, not necessarily by the comet breaking up.

All exposures are the same. 10 seconds.

There are star trails in the first pic, no star trails in the second. The photographer can use tintype for all I give a crap. But space.com might as well be Wikipedia for all the accuracy of this article has in it.

It's been explained to you what the differences are, why are you ignoring it?

reply to post by Chadwickus


So what IS the difference?

Stacked images vs unstacked?

Still explains the dimming.

reply to post by LightAssassin


Explain this then:

Let's look at two images he took on August 23rd.

40x10second exposures stacked on comet. C11 SCT and Starlight Express MX7c CCD imager

Compared with....

10x10 second exposure stacked on stars.

I don't see any difference in the comet brightness despite two different methods of capturing it...

reply to post by CaptChaos


Cap'n that post is going to prove to be Phage proof. No way he will explain away what you stated about the tail pointing right at us. He does tend to be reasonably smart about his point of view but I feel the crowd here is mostly doubting his motives. On this one, I suspect when he reads your observation, he will chime in agreeing with you.

To me, CLEARLY there is something showing in this pic that says it is still affecting this solar system. Many of us know that it does not take an Einstien to see the comet tail is still there. In fact for those of us who still think for ourselves, we aften are seeing something the 'normal' people don't because instead of just taking what is being said at face value as our only point of reference, especially the obvious lies, we instead look at the actual pictures and data to draw our own conclusions. Time always exposes the liars so they have little time to waste or use. The truth will not be constrained by time. I predict your right about the tail doing something. I feel and hope it may only be a spectacular light show. But with all this sabre rattling worldwid and the snippits of doom and gloom that abound on the internet, it gives me pause to wonder?

Also, I am a big fan of the "electric unviverse theory'. It just makes logical sense to me. And an electic uni explains things better than anything I have seen so far.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Good point. Thanks.

What's amazing to me is how old this comet is and how it just all of a sudden breaks up.

reply to post by chrismicha77


It's what small comets that have never been near the sun tend to do.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Excellent find chadwickus!

Star for that.

I guess we have proof that shutter speed did not matter. NOW, the question bears asking. IS the comet in a dark phase (not likely), edited out to make the Elenin issues go away (sounds ridiculus but yet it could be true . I vote no) or just mostly gone with only dust left (most likely). Still if it is gone to dust, the energy associated with the comet, is going to be pointing at Earth and if we're lucky something cool will happen of the once in a gazillion years type of event when it does (please let it be). If we're unlucky either nothing significant at all happens (the very most likely scenario) or Doomsday (the least likely). I hope were lucky and get something fantastic in the night sky. Then I hope to have a cloudless sky to allow me to watch. We are blessed/cursed to live in interesting times.