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Can you prove evolution wrong?*

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posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 





If you only want to discuss human evolution you are on the wrong thread. Here we are meant to be discussing how to explain diversity without refering to evolution by those that believe it wrong.
Well I'm actually discussing both views.




I ask you. What came first life or a breathable atmosphere that supports life today?
Hard to say, I would be in the hall of fame if I knew thats for sure.




Again in plain language I will remind you that Evolution says nothing about the creation of life. Please, Please stop talking about slime it makes you look like an uninformed idiot who has not taken time to read any reply or link and that cannot be true, can it?


proverbial slime was suppose to be the first mark of life as we could understand it from the direction of evolution.




I dont know how many times you need to be told. The program you watched either does not exist or you made the info it offered fit you fantasy.
Thats pretty childish to say I'm hallucinating.




We know of NO LIFE ON OTHER PLANETS. The chances are there is but ATM there are none. Zilch, Nadda, Zero. Please try to understand this at least.

Given that do not know of any other life beyond this planet the rest of your fantasy really has no validity at all.
Confirmation of other life is not necessary when your looking at quantium physics.




Statistics and lies. A common phrase. People get struck by lightning despite the odds. Some more than once.
I guess I made this one up too huh. Well this one I remember even had a name, it was called "what now know, or what we know now" I looked for a link and I'm not seeing the one specifically. But I did find one just as good.

www.youtube.com...




Or maybe they used Evolution as the tool to produce diversity. A tool we see evidence for its use and effect. As stated before. Evolution does not mean you cannot have a creator
True, and visa versa.




Fantasy world again. They are not saying we are 200,000 years old. You have been told this till it hurts. 200,000 years ago is were they traced the original mother too. That does not mean she sprang from the ground. Her ancestors stretch even further back in time.


Your wrong again. You fell into a common fallacy based on her name given of "Eve" which is incorrect. Eve was not the first mother, she was the first common ancestor clearing meaning there were more before her. They however are purposly omitting just how many before her there were.




posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by iterationzero
 





It's pretty clear that they're not mutually exclusive e.g. you didn't read the read the wiki page you used as a source and then lied about humans not being primates.

No you don't have to lose anymore sleep over this, its just what I said, I didn't read the whole thing.




You're changing your stories again. The list you provided earlier consisted of diseases that were contracted from an external pathogen. The lists you're providing now are a mix of genetic disorders (and, again, we're not the only species that suffers from genetic disorders, contrary to your earlier claims) and those arising from external pathogens.
I know that, and my concearn was about all related to medical intervention life threatning or not.




2. Bubonic Plague -- A vaccine wasn't developed until about 2005 and it's not even part of the regular set of vaccinations given to children. We've survived several outbreaks of it in the history of our species.

Again, hardly an extinction level event...
Your kidding me, you actually believe this plague coudln't wipe us out.

Black Death (1340 - 1771):
Killed 75 million people worldwide
But nothing to worry about right?

Smallpox (430 BC? - 1979):
Killed more than 300 million people worldwide in the 20th century alone, and most of the native inhabitants of the Americas

Spanish Flu (1918 - 1919):
Killed 50 to 100 million people worldwide in less than 2 years

Malaria (1600 - today):
Kills about 2 million people per year

AIDS (1981 - today):
Killed 25 million people worldwide

Cholera (1817 - today):
8 pandemics; hundreds of thousands killed worldwide

Typhus (430 BC? - today):
Killed 3 million people between 1918 and 1922 alone, and most of Napoleon's soldiers on Russia

www.oddee.com...

I guess its true what they say, none of us think its a problem until its a problem for us individualy.




You said that scientists couldn't create a new species. Except we did -- cultivated bananas and wild bananas are two different species, incapable of even producing a hybrid.
But I'll bet they are still banannas huh?




So we were "pushed out" by the other species of life that we were superior to and we chose to leave. That makes little sense.
Not at all, we know that we can kill wildlife, but choose not to. Which is a good thing because we should'nt.




Not sidestepped, I'm putting the burden of proof where it belongs -- on the person making the positive claim. You're claiming that we were brought here by aliens. Present your unequivocal evidence for it. Here, I'll even give you a starting point -- according to your hypothesis, how many thousands of years ago were we brought to this planet?

Its not a hypothesis, its from clear documentation and its about 10,000 years ago.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by iterationzero
 


I'm watching some videos about how evolutionism is pseudoscience and how several people have tried to cash in on some findings that never were anything special.

One doctor that made a book for legal help, that was used in busting people on such claims has written a book called "voodoo science." By DR park.

Two books have been written that expose eight man frauds in evolutionism.
The bone peddlers by William Fix and Bones of contention by Martin Lubenow.

Exposing eight men that fall into this voodoo science.

The laws of thermodynamics state that everything is in a natural state of decay.
According to evolutionism, we are actually in a state of upward spiral evolutionary process. And evolution is the only thing making this claim.
edit on 31-12-2011 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



Well I'm actually discussing both views.
No you are not discussing both point of views, not even close. 150 pages and you still have not laid out your fantasy but I will recap for you.

Evolution has no evidence because you refuse to look at any provided.

Your Alien creator may be a creator. Maybe many creators. Maybe just an abductor. He or they punished us by putting on a planet where we dont fit and removed our special powers. He or they also loves us and cannot stop creating things yet we see no evidence of this. Oh and I almost forgot . We were also put here to mine gold.

All other species live a perfect, long life and know they belong because an ant eater knows he eats ants. These millions of creature were either created with magic powder or by other aliens but further than this you will not discuss. On a thread asking for an explanation of the diversity we see if evolution is wrong no less.

We dont fit because we have hands. Something we have in common with the other primates but that does not mean they dont fit.

For some reason humans lived around 180,000 years without medicine and thats generous yet you say we would go extinct without modern medicine. Mainly because we dont fit and no other animals on this planet ever get ill or die from desease.

We cant live without treated water but the fact that we did, have and in many places do is not accepted by you either.



Hard to say, I would be in the hall of fame if I knew thats for sure.
A quick google for early atmosphere resulted in 18 million results. Here's one so do I go into the hall of fame along with the 18 million others?

www.ux1.eiu.edu...



proverbial slime was suppose to be the first mark of life as we could understand it from the direction of evolution.
You use it as a slur. It seems second to you hatred of being related to all life and close family with primates which you are one of your sensibilities are again hurt by resulting from slime. TOUGH.




Thats pretty childish to say I'm hallucinating.
I am not telling you that your hallucinating. I am telling you you are wrong. Fundementaly and profoundly WRONG.



Confirmation of other life is not necessary when your looking at quantium physics.
Evidence is required in any science. Something you also cannot/will not grasp. Now that is childish.



I guess I made this one up too huh. Well this one I remember even had a name, it was called "what now know, or what we know now" I looked for a link and I'm not seeing the one specifically. But I did find one just as good.
Will look and edit as needed. Watched as much of this drivel as I could. Do you ever get your information from any other sources than the fundementalist god squad? You may get your education this way and your understanding of evolution shows just that. I prefer unbiased sources. Thanks.



True, and visa versa.
This makes no sense. Are you just avoiding the point made?



Your wrong again. You fell into a common fallacy based on her name given of "Eve" which is incorrect. Eve was not the first mother, she was the first common ancestor clearing meaning there were more before her. They however are purposly omitting just how many before her there were.
I am wrong again? Coming from the king of wrong. At least you finally admit we had a common ancestor. I realise that she was part of a troop. You are the one that cannot grasp how evolution works and how traits are established.


edit on 31-12-2011 by colin42 because: Fundementalist garbage. Itsthespoofs main sources it seems



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


Congratulations you have demonstrated that not only do you know anything about evolution, you also know nothing about thermodynamics. It's also clear that all of your talking points against evolution are coming from Creationist propaganda. The laws of thermodynamics apply to a closed system. The Earth is not a closed system. Ergo, evolution and thermodynamics are not in conflict with one another.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 





No you are not discussing both point of views, not even close. 150 pages and you still have not laid out your fantasy but I will recap for you.

Evolution has no evidence because you refuse to look at any provided.
I have looked at what links have been given to me, and none of it proves evolutionism by any means.




Your Alien creator may be a creator. Maybe many creators. Maybe just an abductor. He or they punished us by putting on a planet where we dont fit and removed our special powers. He or they also loves us and cannot stop creating things yet we see no evidence of this. Oh and I almost forgot . We were also put here to mine gold.

Well he claimed to love us, I think it was just a control measure but sure. Per sitchen, and the bible actually concurs, yes for gold.




All other species live a perfect, long life and know they belong because an ant eater knows he eats ants. These millions of creature were either created with magic powder or by other aliens but further than this you will not discuss. On a thread asking for an explanation of the diversity we see if evolution is wrong no less.
Well one does not prove the other.




We dont fit because we have hands. Something we have in common with the other primates but that does not mean they dont fit.
Us having hands was an example like the ant eater. What are they for? Do you know of anything specifically we were made to use them for like other animals use there qualitys? Nope and its again because we aren't from here.




For some reason humans lived around 180,000 years without medicine and thats generous yet you say we would go extinct without modern medicine. Mainly because we dont fit and no other animals on this planet ever get ill or die from desease.
Exactly, and probably because we werent living those years here.




We cant live without treated water but the fact that we did, have and in many places do is not accepted by you either.
No I had accepted it, and pointed out that in doing so we also admitt that we werent suppose to grow in population which would overcome that resource.




A quick google for early atmosphere resulted in 18 million results. Here's one so do I go into the hall of fame along with the 18 million others?
Evolution is real in some understanding, but not what you guys have been trying to convince me of.




You use it as a slur. It seems second to you hatred of being related to all life and close family with primates which you are one of your sensibilities are again hurt by resulting from slime. TOUGH.
No its just my way of saying we had to have started from somewhere, but there is still the question of who made the slime.




I am not telling you that your hallucinating. I am telling you you are wrong. Fundementaly and profoundly WRONG.
Ya I can tell.




Evidence is required in any science. Something you also cannot/will not grasp. Now that is childish.
Well it could be worse, I could be claiming that we were all evolved from each other on this planet like one big giant orgy.




Will look and edit as needed. Watched as much of this drivel as I could. Do you ever get your information from any other sources than the fundementalist god squad? You may get your education this way and your understanding of evolution shows just that. I prefer unbiased sources. Thanks.
Well my interest in looking into these things did not come from an erra that predated the phone.




This makes no sense. Are you just avoiding the point made?
No, evolution does not prove diversity and diversity does not prove evolution.




am wrong again? Coming from the king of wrong. At least you finally admit we had a common ancestor. I realise that she was part of a troop. You are the one that cannot grasp how evolution works and how traits are established.
Well the fact is that evolution has NEVER worked. Out of millions of fossils and bones that have been found we have yet to find one connection of any species to another. Now thats a staggering result. We have never seen macroevolution in the works, we have never found any bones of life of transgression. It was perhaps the smartest thing that Darwin included in his work. He knew that if he couldn't find those, he was done, and he was right, and he is done.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 





Congratulations you have demonstrated that not only do you know anything about evolution, you also know nothing about thermodynamics. It's also clear that all of your talking points against evolution are coming from Creationist propaganda. The laws of thermodynamics apply to a closed system. The Earth is not a closed system. Ergo, evolution and thermodynamics are not in conflict with one another
True but they are all here on earth, and it is just a little to to odd how evolution is the ONLY thing going backwards in the equation, related or not.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


Actually most things go against entropy. As I said, the concept that everything is moving toward entropy (*note*: entropy does not mean disorder) only applies to closed systems. There are no closed systems in nature, with the possible exception of the universe as a whole. If I remember correctly entropy isn't even incorporated into any of the laws of thermodynamics. It is merely an interesting phenomenon that occurs in a closed system and it isn't even an important part of thermodynamics, as any textbook on the subject will demonstrate. As for evolution moving towards order... Here's a quick quiz for you. In a thermodynamical sense, which of these is more ordered:

ABAABBABBBBBABBAABABB

ABAABAABAABAABAABAABA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

ABABABABABABABABABABA



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


Dude you need to educate yourself about genes and gene expression. I am not being rude. Can you also take a look at the zillion pages of evolutionary research that has been publishe this year alone. What do you mean allowable differences? The genes can be found that code for most of the characteristics that have been seem. The human genome project has unravelled the Genetic code save for a few junk genes that are unknown sections of DNA that may be actually bits of virus.

Even as I write this more research is being published that further proves the evolutionary theory. It is a working framework that underpins modern medicine and biology.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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Well the evidence of a creator is zero> What do we have various religious metaphors and a few dodgy non-academic translators of dubious accuracy. Did anyone think that scientists sat around drinking all day. I tell you scientific research in the USA is becoming impossible without out foreign scientists as the creationists are damaging the nation's education in science!



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



I have looked at what links have been given to me, and none of it proves evolutionism by any means.
Your answers and responses that you give show you do not wath them. Looking at them does not mean you try to understand the information. YOU DONT.



Well he claimed to love us, I think it was just a control measure but sure. Per sitchen, and the bible actually concurs, yes for gold.
Who claimed he loved us?



Well one does not prove the other.
Well here you go not answering the questions. Please dont come out with its sarcasm as you have a hard job writing anything that is not nonsense.



Us having hands was an example like the ant eater. What are they for? Do you know of anything specifically we were made to use them for like other animals use there qualitys? Nope and its again because we aren't from here.
Because we are tool users. How do you use a tool without hands? Why do chimps, possums have hands? I have asked this before but you chose not to answer. Try it now.



Exactly, and probably because we werent living those years here.
But earlier you said that we were related to 'Eve' whose DNA was found here on earth. So what is it. You agree 'Eve' is a common ancestor or Aliens made an earlier visit and dropped her off around 200000 years ago?
Please answer.



No I had accepted it, and pointed out that in doing so we also admitt that we werent suppose to grow in population which would overcome that resource.
Where do you get this rule book from of the things we are and are not supposed to do? Is it the Itsthespoofs manual for the confused?



Evolution is real in some understanding, but not what you guys have been trying to convince me of.
So which parts of evolution do you wish to cherry pick? Again 'Us guys' are not meant to be convincing you of anything. You are meant to be explaining diverity which you have profoundly failed.



No its just my way of saying we had to have started from somewhere, but there is still the question of who made the slime.
AND AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD MANY TIMES. Evolution does not tell you how life started. It explains how it progressed and diversified. Will you ever grasp this?????????



Ya I can tell.
No. No I really dont think you can.



Well it could be worse, I could be claiming that we were all evolved from each other on this planet like one big giant orgy.
No worse could be 150 pages of we dont fit because we are from another planet. That we had our super powers stolen from us and earth is our version of kryptonite. Proven by our silly hands that dont do anything earthly.



Well my interest in looking into these things did not come from an erra that predated the phone.
So you have not spent 30 years reasearching this then. Thank god for that as it would have meant a wasted life.



No, evolution does not prove diversity and diversity does not prove evolution.
You've done it again. That is not an answer to the original question

Or maybe they used Evolution as the tool to produce diversity. A tool we see evidence for its use and effect. As stated before. Evolution does not mean you cannot have a creator

Try again



Well the fact is that evolution has NEVER worked. Out of millions of fossils and bones that have been found we have yet to find one connection of any species to another. Now thats a staggering result. We have never seen macroevolution in the works, we have never found any bones of life of transgression. It was perhaps the smartest thing that Darwin included in his work. He knew that if he couldn't find those, he was done, and he was right, and he is done.
Back to the missing link crap. You just cannot grasp the very basic things evolution explains can you.

So please put down in words what your explanation is for the divesity we see. I doubt you will even attempt it as you have no clue about what you believe in let alone explain diversity.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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Of course all of these creationists or intelligent designers do not have a shred of scientific training about them. They may have a buddy down their bar who used to be a scientists before the "Govermint" threw them out of their job....

I contend that no one can disprove evolution. To do so would be to develop a level of science beyond anything these naysayers have achieved to date.

It is like saying the earth is flat.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


The last three I guess.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Tiger5
 





Dude you need to educate yourself about genes and gene expression. I am not being rude. Can you also take a look at the zillion pages of evolutionary research that has been publishe this year alone. What do you mean allowable differences? The genes can be found that code for most of the characteristics that have been seem. The human genome project has unravelled the Genetic code save for a few junk genes that are unknown sections of DNA that may be actually bits of virus.

Even as I write this more research is being published that further proves the evolutionary theory. It is a working framework that underpins modern medicine and biology.
Well I remember reading some on genetic drift, and speciation, and micro and macroevolution.

None of it however proves evolutionism.
Like I stated before, I think that some of the new things that are being found were differences that were always there and we just didn't know it.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by Tiger5
 





Well the evidence of a creator is zero> What do we have various religious metaphors and a few dodgy non-academic translators of dubious accuracy. Did anyone think that scientists sat around drinking all day. I tell you scientific research in the USA is becoming impossible without out foreign scientists as the creationists are damaging the nation's education in science!
Your kidding me. The fact that DNA is repeated though different species has creator all over it. The way (what little we know anyhow) DNA works has a creator all over it. It's inconceivable to try to understand how all of this could have been made by accident.

There is no way any of this happend by accident much less all of it. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but it was planned. And whoever or WHATEVER did this, knew exactly what they were doing.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 





Your answers and responses that you give show you do not wath them. Looking at them does not mean you try to understand the information. YOU DONT.
Oh I understand them, but there is no continuity in evolutionism. There is actually 100% continuity with intervention. I think continuity is a key factor when understanding anything, without it you have holes, which in the case of evolutionism you have hypothetical theorys to try to cover those holes, but they don't so then it looks really bad.

Granted I can't present you with an aliens head, much less one of them putting us here, but the fact is we do have clear documentation indicating so. Now we don't have any documentation about our ancestors waking up one day and converting into another species. We don't have bones proving so, and we don't have any real time events that prove evolutionism either. It's just a belief, thats all it ever was. There was never anything to prove it, or back it up other than theorys hanging on theorys.

I'm going to stick with Darwin when he claimed that if he was unable to provide proof of transgression either with real time examples or bones, then it must be wrong. He was right, evolution is wrong.




Who claimed he loved us?

You have to understand that god claimed to love us and demanded that we love him back (and only him as far as gods go because he was a jelious god) as just a control measure. He wanted to make sure he had control over us.




Well here you go not answering the questions. Please dont come out with its sarcasm as you have a hard job writing anything that is not nonsense.
There is no sarcasim here, evolution does not prove diversity and diversity does not prove evolution.




Because we are tool users. How do you use a tool without hands? Why do chimps, possums have hands? I have asked this before but you chose not to answer. Try it now.
Your assuming our intelligence was designed to compensate for being on a wrong planet and being subject to such.




But earlier you said that we were related to 'Eve' whose DNA was found here on earth. So what is it. You agree 'Eve' is a common ancestor or Aliens made an earlier visit and dropped her off around 200000 years ago?
Please answer.
Your confusing carbon dating with mtDNA dating. Just because we are over 200,000 years old does not automatically mean we were living it here on earth.




Where do you get this rule book from of the things we are and are not supposed to do? Is it the Itsthespoofs manual for the confused?
Neither its common sense. Just like assuming we were suppose to drink cows mucous. Granted we need that calcium, so we need the cow but do you really think we were meant to drink from the cow? If so then you must also agree each family was suppose to own there own cow to fill that need. It's just so wrong when you really look at it.

Same thing with water and location, and same thing with calcium from other sources like oranges. Were we all suppose to live in florida to have access to oranges for calcium. Or was the evolution bug smart enough to know we would be smart enough to make transportation? Or were we just never suppose to grow out of population past florida?




So which parts of evolution do you wish to cherry pick? Again 'Us guys' are not meant to be convincing you of anything. You are meant to be explaining diverity which you have profoundly failed.
Diversity has allready been explained from a creator. As far as cherry picking, I do believe that planets evolve into what they become, but as far as life evolving, well we seem to be coming up a tad short in the proof department.




AND AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD MANY TIMES. Evolution does not tell you how life started. It explains how it progressed and diversified. Will you ever grasp this?????????
It has not done that for me, what I get from it is desperate people trying to make sense of things using unprovalbe theorys.




No worse could be 150 pages of we dont fit because we are from another planet. That we had our super powers stolen from us and earth is our version of kryptonite. Proven by our silly hands that dont do anything earthly.
If I'm wrong than you should be able to tell me what our nich is here.




So you have not spent 30 years reasearching this then. Thank god for that as it would have meant a wasted life.
Thats evolution not the supernatural.




You've done it again. That is not an answer to the original question

Or maybe they used Evolution as the tool to produce diversity. A tool we see evidence for its use and effect. As stated before. Evolution does not mean you cannot have a creator

Try again
Well there doesn't have to be a creator, its hard to imagine it so.


edit on 31-12-2011 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 





Back to the missing link crap. You just cannot grasp the very basic things evolution explains can you.

So please put down in words what your explanation is for the divesity we see. I doubt you will even attempt it as you have no clue about what you believe in let alone explain diversity.
Your arrogance and avoidance of the topic makes me realize that you just don't want to even touch the subject.

It's as though you know there is no missing link, and it will never be found, therefore don't even ask about the missing link. It's as though the missing link is something we shouldn't never talk about because its taboo. Of course it is, because its a sensitive subject without a valid excuse. And by the way in case you missed the point earlier about mtDNA, just because we have a common ancestor 200,000 years ago DOES NOT necessarily prove anything with evolution. That ancestor could have been just as huamn as you and me. They didn't say it was a neanderthal or a different breed of human, just a common ancestor, as in great great great grandmother, that shared relations with several others.


edit on 31-12-2011 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-12-2011 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-12-2011 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 


Also in case you missed it, Mitochondrial Eve was the name of a common ancestor, not the FIRST ancestor. The name Eve threw people off and gave that false impression, which they later had to revise the story and explain this mistake.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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I have seen this thread keep popping up in the recent post for a long time now.
Kinda surprising..........
Why would you waste your time trying to prove something wrong that has not been proven right?
It' s just another theory, which there are many of.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by Quadrivium
 


Good point




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