Can you prove evolution wrong

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by HappyBunny

 

I'm going to jump in here and show you that no matter how dirty the water is, sometimes cleaning it up can have unintended consequences.

In the early 20th century, when water sanitation really got going, something curious happened. Officials noticed that the rates of polio--a waterborne, (mainly) early childhood illness--was jumping suddenly. What happened was this: By purifying the water, infants weren't getting the small doses of polio virus their immune systems needed to build up immunity. By 1950, paralytic polio was rampant in kids ages 5-9 and over 30% of cases occurred in those over age 14.

Check out the 1952 outbreak.

So, by improving sanitation and providing "clean" water, we actually caused polio to get a foothold and spread quickly, causing untold numbers of kids to be paralyzed or deformed for life.

that might be an odd outcome but I'm sure it wasn't like that for everything.

Explain what you mean by that, please.

reply to post by itsthetooth

Nope there is clear documentation, which is something evolution has never had, ever wonder why.

All of the "documentation" you've provided so far has been subjective.

So you have evidence that disproves this?

It's not up to me to disprove anything, it's up to you to provide some kind of objective evidence that they existed. Using your logic, I can claim that Hogwart's exists because documentation is provided in the Harry Potter series.

Well we all know your a profiler, just like how you profile von daniken for getting busted, the rest of his couldn't possibly be correct.

Excellent deflection. You still don't know the difference between a base pair and a gene.

No I don't need to make anything up, too much documentation to support it.

Please. Anyone who has spent time in this thread has seen you admit to making up numbers and facts to support your claim. After all... humans aren't primates, remember?

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by colin42

 

Well I never made any claims about how all the other life was made, just that humans couldn't have evolved from here if we are not from here. Your question is not applicable to humans.

Now the skys the limit for the rest.

This wrote by you on page 132

If you had the power to create life, just like you see here on earth, would you stop at one species, no you wouldn't. Diversity could easily be understood in the hands of a (or several) creators. Now I'm not saying there is any proof of this, anymore than there is of evolution. But I will point out one major flaw in evolution that your not seeing. It would appear that a form of LOVE is behind this work. I use that word because it's just a little to quaint how all life also has the ability to make ongoing life. Who ever or what ever made us must LOVE life, there is no question about it.

So you said diversity is easily understood in the hands of a (several) creators. You said love is involved but earlier said we have been punished, abandoned and super powers removed. Make your mind up. Is it love or hate?

It being so easily understood by you I require you to explain it and the questions asked in my last post.

Here they are:

If Aliens did it then expalin what must be billions of species since the earth became habitable when you add in microbial life, (essential to the eco systems of this planet) then how did they achieve this megalithic task. The effort makes pyramid building look less than a child’s mud pie. WHY NO EVIDENCE?

Now address the OP and explain diversity without refering to evolution.

reply to post by iterationzero

I didn't say you've been ignoring people. I said that you're showing a lack of respect for the people you're debating this with by not taking the time to understand the basic scientific concepts that are relevant to the discussion, by not reading your own sources with enough attention to see whether or not they actually agree with your claims, by not reading the information provided to you by others at all, and by making up information to support your claims.

But on to the rest of your post...

Well thats what happens when you keep profiling me, I tend to glance over your replies rather than read them carfuly.

Another example of information you just made up. What would we be extinct from? Do you have some kind of evidence of this to provide? Or is this just yet another claim by itsthetooth that has no basis in reality?

Now your being idiotic. It's as though your saying that our medical hasn't done a damn thing for us in keeping us alive. Ok so you want examples. Polio, pox, black plague or bubonic plague, diphtheria, leishmaniosis, kala azar, Malaria, Gonorrhea, Syphilis, Pneumonia, Sleeping disease, Tuberculosis, AIDS, are just some to start.

More numbers that you're just pulling out of thin air. Given the life expectancy of other primates, and we are primates contrary to your very vocal proclamations in earlier posts, our life expectancy would be in the neighborhood of 50 years or so... much like our nearest living relative, the chimpanzee.

Now your being captian obvious because I allready stated that about my figures.

Your profiling me again.

And this is exactly why states make vaccinations mandatory. The concept you're looking for is called herd immunity

Uh hu.

Yes, and the fact that we evolved to be more intelligent negated our need to evolve to be stronger because we were able to use tools.

Your trying to convince me that the evolution process was smart enough to foresee us not needing to evolve so much any more. I don't buy it. This evolution bug is one hella smart bug.

Laughable. You've ventured past not being right and on into the fabled territory of not even wrong.

And its the best answer you can give because you cant possibly explain a virus or evolution system thats actually smarter than humans.

If we overcame the other life here, what pushed us out?

All of the life we decided to seperate ourselfs from.

Given that there's no evidence of us being from another planet, I'll chalk this up as another one of your religious beliefs.

Well now your growing a brain because thats exactly what home planet means. If we aren't from here, then it sure isn't earth.

reply to post by HappyBunny

I beg your pardon?

SC was found to be a zygote. I thought you watched the video ??? Anyhow that is how they figured out why it was able to have human mtDNA and alien nuclear DNA. Our doctors can do zygotes today but we didn't have that technology 900 years ago, so even yet another proof of advanced technology from alien species.

reply to post by HappyBunny

About the vaccinations--endemic disease didn't get a toehold until we started living in large towns and cities. We are a virus's paradise. Although we were the only reservoirs of smallpox and modern strains of measles.
So now your argument is that we werent suppose to grow in population and congregate.


I said nothing of the kind, and you know it.

It's right there, until we started living in large towns and cities.

reply to post by HappyBunny

Again, not what I said. Diseases will happen no matter how isolated or congregated we are. Did you not read what I said that even bacteria themselves can get sick?

I'm trying to find the only possible solution that would allow not having the need for medical intervention. That is the opposite of exactly what you said which was that it wasn't a problem until we started to group in towns and cities. And your correct. So in other words, had we of not grouped in towns and cities, we would have not needed medical intervention. In other words we weren't suppose to group.

reply to post by HappyBunny

Explain what you mean by that, please.

I was only saying that you found an odd situation that I don't think was the norm in what we are talking about.

reply to post by itsthetooth

Well thats what happens when you keep profiling me, I tend to glance over your replies rather than read them carfuly.

Wikipedia must have really upset you then, given that you couldn't get past the second paragraph on the primates page you linked.

Now your being idiotic. It's as though your saying that our medical hasn't done a damn thing for us in keeping us alive. Ok so you want examples. Polio, pox, black plague or bubonic plague, diphtheria, leishmaniosis, kala azar, Malaria, Gonorrhea, Syphilis, Pneumonia, Sleeping disease, Tuberculosis, AIDS, are just some to start.

I'm not saying that medicine hasn't extended our lifespan. I'm asking for your evidence that any of those things would have caused us to go extinct.

Now your being captian obvious because I allready stated that about my figures.

So you admit to making things up to try and support your claims of interventionism.

Uh hu.

So we can chalk herd immunity up to yet another concept you don't understand and will therefore ignore because it refutes what you've been making up.

Your trying to convince me that the evolution process was smart enough to foresee us not needing to evolve so much any more. I don't buy it. This evolution bug is one hella smart bug.

Strawman argument. Evolution isn't prescient, no one is claiming it is. That's something you've made up on your own to argue against, hence a strawman argument.

And its the best answer you can give because you cant possibly explain a virus or evolution system thats actually smarter than humans.

No, it's laughable to think that you actually believe that the evolution states what you just said it does.

All of the life we decided to seperate ourselfs from.

So all of the life that we're superior to "pushed us out"?

Well now your growing a brain because thats exactly what home planet means. If we aren't from here, then it sure isn't earth.

And all of the objective evidence says we are from here, so our home planet must be Earth.

reply to post by iterationzero

All of the "documentation" you've provided so far has been subjective.

So now your saying that because the only objective evidence is in the form of documentation, its subjective.

How did you ever get to where you were able to allow yourself to believe in evolution? Did you actually conduct the theorys yourself?

The bible is not subjective, thats just simply your opinion, and your entitled to that, but you know what they say about opinions.

It's not up to me to disprove anything, it's up to you to provide some kind of objective evidence that they existed. Using your logic, I can claim that Hogwart's exists because documentation is provided in the Harry Potter series.

Because your able to place the bible in the same catagory with Harry Potter, tells me you lack the ability to understand the difference between history, and science fiction. Maybe this is where your learning curve is failing.

Excellent deflection. You still don't know the difference between a base pair and a gene.

No you missed the point, its usless in what I was explaining, in other words it makes no difference in the findings. Just like Von daniken getting busted once for plagerisim, IMO does not mean that everything else he does is fraudulant.

Please. Anyone who has spent time in this thread has seen you admit to making up numbers and facts to support your claim. After all... humans aren't primates, remember?

I allready covered this, and if your looking for a victory dance, your asking the wrong guy. Your not going to get one from me when you believe that Harry Potter and the bible have anything in common.

I am a cotholic ahve been raised one since I was little....I belive christ made me

reply to post by colin42

So you said diversity is easily understood in the hands of a (several) creators. You said love is involved but earlier said we have been punished, abandoned and super powers removed. Make your mind up. Is it love or hate?

Excellent question.

While the person that claims to have created us, might have frankenstiend us into life, it is possible that he was NOT the creator of all other life as we know it, in fact I"m sure of it. Placing humans on a planet that wasn't made for them is kind of a no brainer IMO. It's actually cruelty. Anyhow, there is a lot of love / hate in the bible and the only thing I can figure out is that people always wanted to believe foremost that anyone that creates, is a lover of life and deserves the highest respect. And I can see eye to eye with that. But how are you suppose to feel when he starts torturing people, through DNA, and killing mass amounts of people just because they wont do what he expects.

It's gets pretty involved, but what it comes down to, is as far as a creator goes, he sucked. Simply because he might have been smart enough to make, us just not smart enough to make us the way he wanted us to be. Between this and bible telling us that we have an actual home, it leads me to believe the obvious, we were abducted.

There are too many details in the bible that elude to it. As an example, Adam and Eve seem to appear out of know where. Memories erased, which we know aliens can do, even god asking adam if he knows where he is. Now call me stupid but if god had just made him, how COULD have known where he was. It's because we took it out of context. God was actually testing him to make sure his memory was lost, it was a key step to enslave us as a race.

This is also why god never showed his face, if he had, all of those memories would have come back, and his plan would have failed. You can ask any doctor how someone that has lost there memory, whats the best way for them to get it back, they will always tell you to expose the subject to things they remember. It would appear from this, that we actually knew of god, or at least his race, yes, its a conspiracy. God also had a lot of help to do all of the things he did to us.I digressed.
So to explain diversity, one or possibly several creators could have been involved in making all of this life. The fact that we all use the same DNA suggest it could in fact be one.

Those are complicated, and I never claimed to have the exact answers, in fact I said it many times that IMO creation and evolution cant be correct. Simply because if there was a creator, who made the creator. If evolution was the answer how did that get started? I always use that we started from slime in the evolution theory, but who made the slime? It tells me that there is something else we are missing, something, we don't yet know or understand.

reply to post by newyorkee

I am a cotholic ahve been raised one since I was little....I belive christ made me

Well then you joined the right forum if you were in need of cluture shock.
Accoring to Wikipedia, the Mitochondrial Eve page clearly notes us having a common ancestor 200,000 years ago.

Thats a tad bit of a problem if god just made us 10,000 years ago. We are only missing 190,000 years (or more actually) of our lineage.

These DNA findings basically slayed all religion, and left us with the only theory remaining, evolution.

There was one other option however, intervention. After much study and debate, I have found that intervention is actually what the bible is about, its a book of intervention. Earth is not our home, just like it states in the bible, we were placed here.

It is impossible to prove evolution wrong for the following reasons:

1) All of the scientific papers published over the last 100 years have been based or at least been underpinned by evolution.

2) Modern evolutionary reasearcjh is based on evolution nd supports evolution by getting more supporting evidence. Therefore it will need several anti-evolutionay biologists to disprove every scientific paper to produced to prove evolution wrong.

3) every single amateur fossil hunter would have to be disproved or they will go on to prove evolutionin the steps of Darwin.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

Interesting article for you. So what branch of biology did you study. Can you not see the impossiblility of disproving evolution given the need for scientific disprovers.

Tiger5

reply to post by iterationzero

Wikipedia must have really upset you then, given that you couldn't get past the second paragraph on the primates page you linked.

Well its not that it upset me as much as I tend to not look at it in depth because all you do is profile me.

I'm not saying that medicine hasn't extended our lifespan. I'm asking for your evidence that any of those things would have caused us to go extinct.

Your kidding me, its obvious.

So you admit to making things up to try and support your claims of interventionism.

For the 3rd time I allready said I was exagerrating. And its not interventionism any more than yours is evolutionism.

So we can chalk herd immunity up to yet another concept you don't understand and will therefore ignore because it refutes what you've been making up.

Sorry never heard of it.

Strawman argument. Evolution isn't prescient, no one is claiming it is. That's something you've made up on your own to argue against, hence a strawman argument.

No you actually eluded to it by claiming that our adaptation ruled out the need for any evolution.

No, it's laughable to think that you actually believe that the evolution states what you just said it does.

Your the one claiming that evolution has the ability to change our DNA, branch out to create different species. Now hell our own scientists cant even do all that, so this evolution bug must be smart.

So all of the life that we're superior to "pushed us out"?

We chose to distance ourselves from wildlife, so in a sense, yes.

And all of the objective evidence says we are from here, so our home planet must be Earth.

There is not ONE shred of evidence that says we are from earth, aside from us drinking water ( which we have to process first) and breathing air.

Is there any validity to an argument of de-evolution?

The process as generally accepted is that species become more complex as time and progress of change and adaptations come and go......that we "upgrade" as we go......

is there any validity in an argument that evolution is not linear to "progress" as we see it. Maybe being simple is the only way of ensuring survival.....The environment might change and require that we spend less energy on more complex systems built into our biological design. An eco-system might change and not support a whole family of a certain species, requiring it to favor a more vigorous and adaptable design. A more "highly" evolved species might need to take a different direction in its evolutionary course and stay true to survival above all ¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿

reply to post by Tiger5


First of all if evolutionism was ever found to be correct, it would be mandatory in all schools.
Religion would all fall to the wasteside, and you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.
There has never been any common ancestors found to be related to humans. There has never been any proof of humans evolving into, much less from another species.
There has never been any witness of any species ( out of the 5 million here ) evolving to or from anything else.
There have been small instances of viruses mutating but even then, you still have the same species.
We lack bones of any transgression or any species and I'm now being told that due to our superior intelligence, we actually stopped evolving.

It looks more and more like one big unconnected theory.
Everytime I get a link sent to me to check these things out, the link always indicates that its either a hypothetical theory, or still under investigation, or a postulated theory.
I think its pretty clear whats going on, and I'm shocked the rest of you don't see it too.
I'm not even going into the fact that we aren't from earth.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by Tiger5

 

First of all if evolutionism was ever found to be correct, it would be mandatory in all schools.
Religion would all fall to the wasteside, and you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.
There has never been any common ancestors found to be related to humans. There has never been any proof of humans evolving into, much less from another species.
There has never been any witness of any species ( out of the 5 million here ) evolving to or from anything else.
There have been small instances of viruses mutating but even then, you still have the same species.
We lack bones of any transgression or any species and I'm not being told that due to our superior intelligence, we actually stopped evolving.

It looks more and more like one big unconnected theory.
Everytime I get a link sent to me to check these things out, the link always indicates that its either a hypothetical theory, or still under investigation, or a postulated theory.
I think its pretty clear whats going on, and I'm shocked the rest of you don't see it too.
I'm not even going into the fact that we aren't from earth.

Wow

1) Evolution is mandatory in mostof the civilised world. America is an exception perhaps but then America is falling behind in terms of scientific knowledge and has had to important scientists. I hope the creationists are very proud of this statistic.


2) As a matter of fact I am a qualified biologist and I do have a religion. Not all religionists are simpletons only fundamentalists.

3) There has been evidence of natural selctin and it is easily proven when a single specis has been trapped in differing environment and evolved different Phenotypes. You have also proven it in drug resistance diseases. The discovery channel is your friend.

4) The very concept of Species that you quote relies on genes which are a key compnent of genetics. All mutations have a genetic basis. and the mutated genes can be identified.

reply to post by itsthetooth
Thanks for thinking my question was excellent but you forgot to answer all the questions it contained. Try again.

If Aliens did it then explain what must be billions of species since the earth became habitable when you add in microbial life, (essential to the eco systems of this planet) then how did they achieve this megalithic task. The effort makes pyramid building look less than a child’s mud pie. WHY NO EVIDENCE?

If all the species were created by aliens, why don’t we see new species being created today? They obivously cant stop!!

reply to post by Tiger5
Hi Tiger

The thread title was changed by the mods. I am not asking for someone to disprove evolution, I am asking them to explain the diversity we see today without refering to evolution.

To this point no one has even tried.