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Can you prove evolution wrong?*

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posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 03:14 AM
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Time for a reminder

This thread is not a showcase for Itsthespoofs parrot like world view. He has learnt a few words but makes no meaningful sentences and I am tired of his version of 'Who's a pretty boy den?'

The OP asks those that believe Evolution is wrong to explain the diversity we see around us today without it.

A simple task that no one has attempted.

Star child = off topic as this is only 900 years old and so has nothing to say about diversity at all.

Itsthespoof: Your Alien or Aliens did it squawk and because you believe it then it is true does not explain diversity.

If Aliens did it then expalin what must be billions of species since the earth became habitable when you add in microbial life, (essential to the eco systems of this planet) then how did they achieve this megalithic task. The effort makes pyramid building look less than a child’s mud pie. WHY NO EVIDENCE?

If all the species were created by aliens, why don’t we see new species being created today? They obivously cant stop!!

The question you asked if I could create life what would I do. I can tell you what I would not do. Carry on for billions of years creating life that is just a variation of a theme. So where is the life not based on DNA?

Remember the Parrot and try to answer with words that have meaning and relate to the OP.




posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by HappyBunny
 



What was the father? The father is human, too.
Are you sure thats not the part where he says SOME of the genes come back human?

Either it's alien or it isn't. And based on the facts, it isn't.




If he can't even reveal the genetic test results, I'm not holding my breath for him to release his tax returns.
Everyone is complaining about this. You know if he hasn't even made a book yet, which appears to be the case, he wont have to file.

Why wouldn't he? If he has income, no matter what the source is, he has to file.

He's written several books. See here:

www.amazon.com...=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Lloyd+Pye&x=0&y=0

Did you see his website?

www.lloydpye.com...

And the Starchild site:

www.starchildproject.com...

And you accuse us of not knowing what we're talking about! You don't even know what's on the Starchild site!




There is no "missing link." That's just a myth creationists love to toss around because they don't really understand what evolution does and does not say, nor do they understand how fossils are formed
Well then I wont use that term. What I will say is there has never been a confirmed connection that ties us to any other species. In addition there has never been any solid ties made about any other life here on earth either. Ever wonder why?


You are hopeless. I wonder if you're really that stuck in your dogma or if you're just messing with us--no one is that obtuse.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by BillyTJames

Natural selection drives evolution in nature in a similar fashion where the selective breeder is mother nature....



so then why do we need medical technology to fight disease and improve our life expectancy? why wasn't that all weeded out a long time ago? Why aren't we stronger after having to exist for thousands of years without technology? If we are the result of millions of years of hominids existing off the land, why would we need to all of a sudden put on clothes? Modern man does not fit in with the rest of the natural world.


We didn't NEED to suddenly put on clothes. If we'd stayed in the topics we would have no need for them. But the invention of clothes allowed us to survive in climates that we'd otherwise had died in. It's also entirely possible that clothes were invented because H. erectus was venturing out of the tropics. In other words, the need drove the invention.

Even today, without clothing, there are very few areas on the Earth's surface we could survive for any length of time. People yip and yap about how bad global warming would be (not!), but they don't seem to understand that far more people die from cold than heat.

Disease has been around since the first bacteria and Archaea. Bacteria themselves do get sick--they can be invaded by viruses or bacteriophages. Every creature on Earth knows sickness. If there was no such thing as evolution, no one and no creature would ever get sick at all.

Our reliance on technology has probably made us weaker. Both Cro Magnon (an outdated term) and the Neanderthals were much more robust than we are now. When we developed a more sedentary lifestyle, we didn't need more robust frames, so the skeleton became lighter. We are on average 3 inches taller than they were (ditto the Neanderthals) but our brains are actually smaller than that of Cro Magnon on average by volume.

Look at what's happened over the last 30 or so years with the invention of all this wonderful new technology our kids can't live without. Rates of obesity have skyrocketed. So have the rates of diabetes and other health problems. We're also shrinking. American and British males have lost almost an inch in height over that same 30 year period. It's a combination of diet and a lack of exercise due to the advances in technology--we simply don't need to cook for ourselves or move very often.

The last time we had a big drop in height, it was due to the Black Death and the population depletion and malnutrition that followed.
edit on 12/30/2011 by HappyBunny because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by BillyTJames
I dont think we evolved from apes all though all the evidenve suggests that we did, Out of africa and multiregional hypothesis


No one said we evolved from apes. What Darwin said is that man and apes have a common ancestor.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by uva3021
 





Lol humans can drink water, it doesn't have to be avion. I doubt the Myceneans drank avion water.
Well then you need to contact all of the city water municipalities know that you have realized we don't need treated water, its perfectly fine to drink it the way it is.



I'm going to jump in here and show you that no matter how dirty the water is, sometimes cleaning it up can have unintended consequences.

In the early 20th century, when water sanitation really got going, something curious happened. Officials noticed that the rates of polio--a waterborne, (mainly) early childhood illness--was jumping suddenly. What happened was this: By purifying the water, infants weren't getting the small doses of polio virus their immune systems needed to build up immunity. By 1950, paralytic polio was rampant in kids ages 5-9 and over 30% of cases occurred in those over age 14.

Check out the 1952 outbreak.

So, by improving sanitation and providing "clean" water, we actually caused polio to get a foothold and spread quickly, causing untold numbers of kids to be paralyzed or deformed for life.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


A belief would imply there is a faith behind it, and well no faith here, so your wrong there. It's an understanding, not a belief. You either understand it, or you don't. In your case, I don't think you do, or that you can. It is deep and complex and does require a lot of understanding.

You admit that there's no objective evidence for your claims, ergo it's a matter of faith to you.


There is clear documentated objective evidence, that you personally choose to rule out, so that doesn't make you right again.

The evidence you've provided is hardly objective. By way of example, you've claimed that the four-headed creatures described in the Bible were real. Other than their depiction in the Bible, is there any objective evidence that they actually existed?


Yes I understand that base pairs are not genes, it actually doesn't matter with anything I have included, FYI.

No, you didn't understand that base pairs and genes were not the same thing until someone pointed it out to you. From one of your own posts:



And you obviously don't know the difference between a base pair and a gene.

And I guess I still dont.

So unless something changed during the day yesterday, I find your claim that you understand anything about basic genetics, the science you're trying to use to support your claims, extremely difficult to believe.


I have tried to include everyone, have I left anyone out?

Another fine example of your reading incomprehension. Here's what I said:


Show some respect for the rest of us and try to engage everyone in this conversation on the same level at which we've been engaging you.

I didn't say you've been ignoring people. I said that you're showing a lack of respect for the people you're debating this with by not taking the time to understand the basic scientific concepts that are relevant to the discussion, by not reading your own sources with enough attention to see whether or not they actually agree with your claims, by not reading the information provided to you by others at all, and by making up information to support your claims.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by uva3021
reply to post by itsthetooth
 

Chimps have a 50 year life expectancy, early humans routinely lived into their 50s, so where has there ever been any indication that without modern technological advances in medicine we would only live to be from 5 to 20 yrs old. Albatrosses are sexually mature at 12 years old and live to be 50, so I guess aliens intervened on their "evolution" too?

You think natives of New Guinea who, for some, up until 1970, had not made contact with "civilized man" and still used stone tools, died instantly from drinking non-processed water and had a life expectancy of 5 years? They got along fine without us, and humans have got along fine for the million years previous without the need for bottled water or vaccinations, or clothing. Just because we have a brain doesn't mean we don't belong on earth. Silly.


About the vaccinations--endemic disease didn't get a toehold until we started living in large towns and cities. We are a virus's paradise. Although we were the only reservoirs of smallpox and modern strains of measles.
edit on 12/30/2011 by HappyBunny because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


Well I thought I would included myself in the part of the convo since I was accused of not being good at including people in the conversation.

Another fine example of your reading incomprehension. Here's what I said:


Show some respect for the rest of us and try to engage everyone in this conversation on the same level at which we've been engaging you.

I didn't say you've been ignoring people. I said that you're showing a lack of respect for the people you're debating this with by not taking the time to understand the basic scientific concepts that are relevant to the discussion, by not reading your own sources with enough attention to see whether or not they actually agree with your claims, by not reading the information provided to you by others at all, and by making up information to support your claims.

But on to the rest of your post...


Ok this keeps coming up, so maybe I can lay this to rest so that everyone gets it. Lets pretend for the moment that humans have never enguaged in the medical professions. First of all our species would have been extinct a long time ago.

Another example of information you just made up. What would we be extinct from? Do you have some kind of evidence of this to provide? Or is this just yet another claim by itsthetooth that has no basis in reality?


But lets pretend thats not the case, somehow we made it though. What would you think the life expectancy would be? 5 years, 20 years? Do you really think we were only suppose to live to be 20?

More numbers that you're just pulling out of thin air. Given the life expectancy of other primates, and we are primates contrary to your very vocal proclamations in earlier posts, our life expectancy would be in the neighborhood of 50 years or so... much like our nearest living relative, the chimpanzee.


To make matters worse, we are also carriers. So when you choose not to vaccinate its just a matter of coming into contact with someone thats infected, and your done for. IMO its like have unprotected sex with multiple partners, eventually your going to get hurt.

And this is exactly why states make vaccinations mandatory. The concept you're looking for is called herd immunity.


Your sidestepping his question by trying to answer an evolution question using adaptation. They are different, very different.

Yes, and the fact that we evolved to be more intelligent negated our need to evolve to be stronger because we were able to use tools.


Do you honestly buy this? How did this work, did the viruse that evolved us make decisions and was smart enough to know that it would make us smart enough to move onto clothing? I don't think so.

Laughable. You've ventured past not being right and on into the fabled territory of not even wrong.


First is that our intellegence allowed us to overcome the other life here.

Agreed.


Second we were pushed out from the other life with no where else to go.

If we overcame the other life here, what pushed us out?


Third we probably reigned as a main species on our home planet and expect the same.

Given that there's no evidence of us being from another planet, I'll chalk this up as another one of your religious beliefs.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by uva3021
 


Well it is a form of recorded history.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by BlackSatinDancer
 





why are there so many posts just saying "evolution is a fact"...we all know species evolve but what evolves them can be different things.

I wish people would just stop adding filler to threads. there is no telling how many replies say the same thing and NONE of them can account for every single change that has happened to the DNA of humans.


If you argue "evolution is a fact".... that includes assisted evolution... so what have you stated?

basically nothing.
I'd be happy with any proof that it happens in humans.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by colin42
 


Well I never made any claims about how all the other life was made, just that humans couldn't have evolved from here if we are not from here. Your question is not applicable to humans.

Now the skys the limit for the rest.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by HappyBunny
 





Either it's alien or it isn't. And based on the facts, it isn't.
AH HA, this is where your getting lost. Maybe you better read up on zygote's and figure out how they work.
Only difference in this case is it looks like an alien used a human for the zygote.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by HappyBunny
 





Why wouldn't he? If he has income, no matter what the source is, he has to file.

He's written several books. See here:

www.amazon.com...=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Lloyd+Pye&x=0&y=0

Did you see his website?

www.lloydpye.com...

And the Starchild site:

www.starchildproject.com...

And you accuse us of not knowing what we're talking about! You don't even know what's on the Starchild site!
Well I never really was interested in the propaganda side of things, just the facts. I don't have money to buy books so I don't bother looking.




You are hopeless. I wonder if you're really that stuck in your dogma or if you're just messing with us--no one is that obtuse.
Nope, its the bottom line, we have never witnessed these things in humans.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by HappyBunny
 





No one said we evolved from apes. What Darwin said is that man and apes have a common ancestor.
So in other words there is just another species between us, yet another one that we have no knowledge of or bones for. Right.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by HappyBunny
 





I'm going to jump in here and show you that no matter how dirty the water is, sometimes cleaning it up can have unintended consequences.

In the early 20th century, when water sanitation really got going, something curious happened. Officials noticed that the rates of polio--a waterborne, (mainly) early childhood illness--was jumping suddenly. What happened was this: By purifying the water, infants weren't getting the small doses of polio virus their immune systems needed to build up immunity. By 1950, paralytic polio was rampant in kids ages 5-9 and over 30% of cases occurred in those over age 14.

Check out the 1952 outbreak.

So, by improving sanitation and providing "clean" water, we actually caused polio to get a foothold and spread quickly, causing untold numbers of kids to be paralyzed or deformed for life.
that might be an odd outcome but I'm sure it wasn't like that for everything.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by iterationzero
 





You admit that there's no objective evidence for your claims, ergo it's a matter of faith to you.
Nope there is clear documentation, which is something evolution has never had, ever wonder why.




The evidence you've provided is hardly objective. By way of example, you've claimed that the four-headed creatures described in the Bible were real. Other than their depiction in the Bible, is there any objective evidence that they actually existed?
So you have evidence that disproves this?




So unless something changed during the day yesterday, I find your claim that you understand anything about basic genetics, the science you're trying to use to support your claims, extremely difficult to believe.
Well we all know your a profiler, just like how you profile von daniken for getting busted, the rest of his couldn't possibly be correct.




Another fine example of your reading incomprehension. Here's what I said:
I feel I am, am I leaving you out or are you profiling me?




I didn't say you've been ignoring people. I said that you're showing a lack of respect for the people you're debating this with by not taking the time to understand the basic scientific concepts that are relevant to the discussion, by not reading your own sources with enough attention to see whether or not they actually agree with your claims, by not reading the information provided to you by others at all, and by making up information to support your claims.
No I don't need to make anything up, too much documentation to support it.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by HappyBunny
 





About the vaccinations--endemic disease didn't get a toehold until we started living in large towns and cities. We are a virus's paradise. Although we were the only reservoirs of smallpox and modern strains of measles.
So now your argument is that we werent suppose to grow in population and congregate.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by HappyBunny
 





Either it's alien or it isn't. And based on the facts, it isn't.
AH HA, this is where your getting lost. Maybe you better read up on zygote's and figure out how they work.
Only difference in this case is it looks like an alien used a human for the zygote.


I beg your pardon?



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by HappyBunny
 





About the vaccinations--endemic disease didn't get a toehold until we started living in large towns and cities. We are a virus's paradise. Although we were the only reservoirs of smallpox and modern strains of measles.
So now your argument is that we werent suppose to grow in population and congregate.


I said nothing of the kind, and you know it.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by HappyBunny
 





About the vaccinations--endemic disease didn't get a toehold until we started living in large towns and cities. We are a virus's paradise. Although we were the only reservoirs of smallpox and modern strains of measles.
So now your argument is that we werent suppose to grow in population and congregate.


Again, not what I said. Diseases will happen no matter how isolated or congregated we are. Did you not read what I said that even bacteria themselves can get sick?



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