Oh no. All of a sudden China has political and economic leverage. I wonder what path we are traveling down here. One does not need prophetic ability
to understand whats happening.
China warns against US veto of Palestinian state, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 9 times
ATS Members have flagged this thread 9 times
Topic started on 17-9-2011 @ 12:17 AM by Vitchilo
China paper warns US against Palestinian UN
veto
China is just warning that blocking a statehood for Palestine will only create problems and instability and that the US should listen TO THE WORLD and NOT listen to Israel.
The entire world wants a Palestine. Except the US government and the Israeli government. Not to mention all the self determination Obama CLAIMS to support while he doesn't support a Palestine. Hypocritical are we?
Time to tell AIPAC to shut up already. Instead of promoting conflict and separation, AIPAC and the Israeli government should SUPPORT a Palestinian state and do economic deals with them.
Thing is, between the crazies in the Israeli government and the Hamas right now, forget it.
A Chinese state-run newspaper on Friday warned of a spike in tensions in the Middle East if the United States vetoed the Palestinian bid for membership of the United Nations next week.
"If the US chooses to fly in the face of world opinion and block the Palestine UN bid next week, not only will Israel become more isolated but tensions in the region will be heightened even more," said the China Daily.
"The majority of the international community deems an independent state as the inalienable right of the Palestinians," the English-language daily said in an editorial, echoing Beijing's official position on the issue.
China is just warning that blocking a statehood for Palestine will only create problems and instability and that the US should listen TO THE WORLD and NOT listen to Israel.
The entire world wants a Palestine. Except the US government and the Israeli government. Not to mention all the self determination Obama CLAIMS to support while he doesn't support a Palestine. Hypocritical are we?
Time to tell AIPAC to shut up already. Instead of promoting conflict and separation, AIPAC and the Israeli government should SUPPORT a Palestinian state and do economic deals with them.
Thing is, between the crazies in the Israeli government and the Hamas right now, forget it.
edit on 17-9-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason
given)
reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 12:21 AM by The Old American
reply to post by Vitchilo
The entire world doesn't "want" a Palestine. Arabs, Egyptians, Syrians, and Jordanians in Gaza and the West Bank want a Palestine. Most countries just aren't against it.
/TOA
The entire world doesn't "want" a Palestine. Arabs, Egyptians, Syrians, and Jordanians in Gaza and the West Bank want a Palestine. Most countries just aren't against it.
/TOA
reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 12:22 AM by UniverSoul
reply to post by Vitchilo
damn i was hoping that china was making a threat against the us if they did it
i cant wait till china invaids the us
damn i was hoping that china was making a threat against the us if they did it
i cant wait till china invaids the us
reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 12:28 AM by UniverSoul
reply to post by aching_knuckles
sorry man
but its just the way the world works
your people are just as insignificant to me as the puny countries your government invades
its for the good of the world and earth
sorry man
but its just the way the world works
your people are just as insignificant to me as the puny countries your government invades
its for the good of the world and earth
reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 02:43 PM by mamabeth
reply to post by Vitchilo
I have only read part of your opening post.
As for me and my house we stand behind Israel!
I have only read part of your opening post.
As for me and my house we stand behind Israel!
reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 02:49 PM by redoubt
reply to post by Vitchilo
That's not correct. But at this point, it really doesn't matter because China, as well as any nation, understands the ramifications of a forced Palestinian state. There will be further war, more bloodshed and no peace.
The ideal way of doing this is to find a way to bring both sides to a middle point where both can agree on the outlines of such an outcome. But we are into politics now and what is right and wrongs mean less than simply getting one's way.
Israel and Palestine have both lived alongside one another and killed one another for over a thousand years. We don't recognize or respect that because of our political preferences. But it remains despite what we want it to otherwise be.
Curiously, many of the young political ideologues here could end up in uniform if this plays out as it might. They will be there defending the very nation they've been trained to attack.
China is just warning that blocking a statehood for Palestine will only create problems and instability and that the US should listen TO THE WORLD and NOT listen to Israel. The entire world wants a Palestine. Except the US government and the Israeli government.
That's not correct. But at this point, it really doesn't matter because China, as well as any nation, understands the ramifications of a forced Palestinian state. There will be further war, more bloodshed and no peace.
The ideal way of doing this is to find a way to bring both sides to a middle point where both can agree on the outlines of such an outcome. But we are into politics now and what is right and wrongs mean less than simply getting one's way.
Israel and Palestine have both lived alongside one another and killed one another for over a thousand years. We don't recognize or respect that because of our political preferences. But it remains despite what we want it to otherwise be.
Curiously, many of the young political ideologues here could end up in uniform if this plays out as it might. They will be there defending the very nation they've been trained to attack.
reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 05:51 PM by jaxnmarko
reply to post by Vitchilo
The Chinese have used their veto on a number of occasions for their own particular political purposes that flew in the face of what was right for other countries just as we have stood by Israel at times when it should have been scolded instead of supported, or perhaps other countries as well. Same goes for Russia. And probably to a lesser extent, as far as I know, with Britain and France. It's true that overall world opinion supports the Palestinians in their desire for a country of their own, so we would be bucking world opinion in using our veto. But I don't see China supporting human rights in MOST cases, only a few where they stand to gain, somehow. Not exactly humanitarians. How much of their new great wealth has gone to disaster support or military intervention in support of people? How much money has the US given in aid over the years? NO COMPARISON! They are using this opportunity to scold us. Pretty much the pot calling the kettle black, if you ask me.
But........ both Israel and the Palestinians treat each other very poorly. AND, the Palestinians treat themselves very poorly! BILLIONS of dollars have been contributed to their cause but they seem to spend most of it on corrupt officials (have you seen Arafat's villa in France, where his widow resides now?), weapons that generally do little more than piss off the Israelis and now and then kill a few people, and supporting a Hamas regime that crushes any opposition. Hardly a democratic society once they were put into office.
Frankly, I thought the initial creation of Israel was wrong. Victors of WW1, europeans at that,dividing up the former Ottoman Empire among themselves, deciding after WW2 and possibly guilty feelings about the Holocaust, and creating a new country that would surely piss off most if not all of the arabic landholders and residents of the area at the time Yes, it was once the kingdom of the Jews, but that was ancient history, and by that measure, most all borders and countries would be changed. At what time in history to we say borders and rulers should be returned to? Should we restore the Picts, the Gauls, the Romans, the Babylonians, the Mongols, the Tatars, the Austro-Hungarian Empires? The Native Americans of North and South America? So, naturally, there are a lot of angry people who lost self rule and title to land. But, its defacto. Israel is a nation. Also a nation with neighbors that want it gone. To the point that they invaded. And LOST! And Israel increased it's lands by winning wars in which they were invaded rather than them seeking new territories by invading other countries. So to me, its sour grapes on the part of the people that lost the war which they started. To the winner go the spoils. Right? That IS how history works!!!!!!!!! Do I wish they could "all just get along"? Sure. Unlikely as that may be. And unless they do so, troubles won't go away. But when you have Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, Syria, the new regimes in Egypt and Libya, who knows what the future brings? More animosity it seems. The treaties that created the peace or stalemate between Israel and Egypt and Jordan may be gone. But also remember, there is no tribe of Palestinians. They are not a People, per se. They had ties to the land, generations of history, but are not a different people than those that inhabited other areas nearby. It was less than a century ago that the Ottoman Empire ruled the whole area and created its own regions. Then the Europeans won the war and created other new regions and borders and countries. There were no Iraqis as there was no Iraq. Saudi Arabians as there was no Saudi Arabia. There were many, many tribes occupying many different areas.
IF the Palestinians deserve their own country..... how about the Kurds? THEY are actually a distinct group of people different than those around them, with a strong history. Why is there no outcry to create a country for them too? Just a point to make a point. They seem to have more rights to a country than the Palestinians. Again, I think the creation of Israel may have been shortsighted and made little sense when we don't do it for other peoples, and has created a great deal of friction in the world. I applaud, however, the Israeli people for their ability to create a cohesive society amid all their enemies, though they couldn't have done it without a great deal of support, no doubt. Yet here we are, in a position of either creating ANOTHER nation where one didn't exist, within or bordering on a country that was also created. Should one exist and not another? A huge dilemma with even larger ramifications!
The Chinese have used their veto on a number of occasions for their own particular political purposes that flew in the face of what was right for other countries just as we have stood by Israel at times when it should have been scolded instead of supported, or perhaps other countries as well. Same goes for Russia. And probably to a lesser extent, as far as I know, with Britain and France. It's true that overall world opinion supports the Palestinians in their desire for a country of their own, so we would be bucking world opinion in using our veto. But I don't see China supporting human rights in MOST cases, only a few where they stand to gain, somehow. Not exactly humanitarians. How much of their new great wealth has gone to disaster support or military intervention in support of people? How much money has the US given in aid over the years? NO COMPARISON! They are using this opportunity to scold us. Pretty much the pot calling the kettle black, if you ask me.
But........ both Israel and the Palestinians treat each other very poorly. AND, the Palestinians treat themselves very poorly! BILLIONS of dollars have been contributed to their cause but they seem to spend most of it on corrupt officials (have you seen Arafat's villa in France, where his widow resides now?), weapons that generally do little more than piss off the Israelis and now and then kill a few people, and supporting a Hamas regime that crushes any opposition. Hardly a democratic society once they were put into office.
Frankly, I thought the initial creation of Israel was wrong. Victors of WW1, europeans at that,dividing up the former Ottoman Empire among themselves, deciding after WW2 and possibly guilty feelings about the Holocaust, and creating a new country that would surely piss off most if not all of the arabic landholders and residents of the area at the time Yes, it was once the kingdom of the Jews, but that was ancient history, and by that measure, most all borders and countries would be changed. At what time in history to we say borders and rulers should be returned to? Should we restore the Picts, the Gauls, the Romans, the Babylonians, the Mongols, the Tatars, the Austro-Hungarian Empires? The Native Americans of North and South America? So, naturally, there are a lot of angry people who lost self rule and title to land. But, its defacto. Israel is a nation. Also a nation with neighbors that want it gone. To the point that they invaded. And LOST! And Israel increased it's lands by winning wars in which they were invaded rather than them seeking new territories by invading other countries. So to me, its sour grapes on the part of the people that lost the war which they started. To the winner go the spoils. Right? That IS how history works!!!!!!!!! Do I wish they could "all just get along"? Sure. Unlikely as that may be. And unless they do so, troubles won't go away. But when you have Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, Syria, the new regimes in Egypt and Libya, who knows what the future brings? More animosity it seems. The treaties that created the peace or stalemate between Israel and Egypt and Jordan may be gone. But also remember, there is no tribe of Palestinians. They are not a People, per se. They had ties to the land, generations of history, but are not a different people than those that inhabited other areas nearby. It was less than a century ago that the Ottoman Empire ruled the whole area and created its own regions. Then the Europeans won the war and created other new regions and borders and countries. There were no Iraqis as there was no Iraq. Saudi Arabians as there was no Saudi Arabia. There were many, many tribes occupying many different areas.
IF the Palestinians deserve their own country..... how about the Kurds? THEY are actually a distinct group of people different than those around them, with a strong history. Why is there no outcry to create a country for them too? Just a point to make a point. They seem to have more rights to a country than the Palestinians. Again, I think the creation of Israel may have been shortsighted and made little sense when we don't do it for other peoples, and has created a great deal of friction in the world. I applaud, however, the Israeli people for their ability to create a cohesive society amid all their enemies, though they couldn't have done it without a great deal of support, no doubt. Yet here we are, in a position of either creating ANOTHER nation where one didn't exist, within or bordering on a country that was also created. Should one exist and not another? A huge dilemma with even larger ramifications!
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