You die, you see a beautiful white tunnel & dead relatives, and then....

reply to post by 2manyquestions

All I want to know is WHAT IS THE POINT to these experiences when death approaches? Why does the body not simply shut down and numb the pain? Why the elaborate show? Last minute entertainment to pass the time??? Very peculiar the way the body handles such stress.

Excellent point.
I wish the journos who interview them about this would ask this sort of question.

Or this question: first of all, where's the evidence that dying IS stressful or painful in the first place?
And if it is stress/pain that produces this effect, why doesn't the body produce such effects when they are demonstrably needed, e.g. in cases of really bad toothache, or in victims of torture?
No, apparently it only happens when people die.

(I actually know a person who did ask an eminent neuropsychiatrist these very questions, but the fibbing and refusal to speak clearly that ensued were so embarrassingly evident that finally the editor cut that portion out of the article to save the scientist's face. True story.)

When you start out with an extremely strong bias towards materialism, is it any wonder you come to a materialist conclusion, even if it means omitting vital components of relevancy?

Of course not.
The only problem is that people in general fail to realize that today's science remains strongly based on 19th century scientism, which derives from 18th century rationalist (pre)conceptions. People think that because in this day and age "anything goes", science too is pluralistic. It's not; it's far from pluralistic. It actually has a CULT mentality which not only does not encourage the quest for the truth but often tends to suppress it, by ridicule and/or withdrawal of funding.

To be sure, I don't know what happens after a person dies.
But I am not pretending to know.

I am not satisfied that this explains it all. We still do not understand what human consciousness is and where the seat of it is within the brain. Until they can confirm that, anything is possible. I guess I hope we go on after this life. I want this life to be a womb like state that prepares us for something more. I don't know about you, but I don't recall my time in the womb.

Above all the things I want to know, I want to know what happens after we die. I am an atheist and do not believe in an afterlife that is described by any of the world's religions especially Christianity. However, I do hope and want there to be something after this life. If there is, it is a state that obeys the laws of both known an unknown physics. We just don't know what it is or how to measure it. YET.

My mother was told that she could no longer have kids anymore, yet some how I popped out. I had to give the finger to death before I even drew my first breath. My mother almost lost me and had to stay in hospital under constant supervision for a month and a half. In the end, they had to force labour because I refused to come out I'm only 21 but I've had a bizarre and eventful life. I know I have people watching over me and protecting me. There have been several moments when I was a young child, just playing around and being stupid and could have easily gotten hurt. Potentially ending my life, but some how I dodge the metaphoric bullet altogether or came out of the situation unscathed or with minimal injuries.

My mother used to look after elderly people and when I was just 2 or 3, one of her main patients which she had over at our house all the time died of old age. Till this day, my mother still tells me how that day I was standing in the living room pointing in the corner and saying the name of the deseased person and I just kept repeating her name and pointing/staring at the one corner in our living room. Practically scared the crap out of my mom literally. Several years back, my aunt (on my mother side) suddenly died of an aneurysm. My mother still suffers emotional pain over the dream she had shortly after the death of her sister where a train passes by and rides off into the distance. As the train is passing, my mother catches a glimpse of somebody waving to her. When my mother focused her perspective on the person, it was her sister just staring right into her eyes and waving.

I know my mothers time is coming to a close very soon. She was diagnosed with cancer back in early May of this year. Unfortunately treatments didn't work and the cancer was too advanced so it continued to spread. Her energy has been decreasing dramatically over the past 2 weeks. Now she confined to only her bed practically. Hasn't had a bowel movement in over a week and barely eats. She's suffering a lot right now and it's hard to sit and watch. I just hope that w/e happens, she goes in peace and to a better place without any suffering. Reading through this thread was hard... but that's life I guess. Just as in life, you must hope for a better tomorrow. Even in "death"

They are very wrong. There are too many cases that have blown their dogma's out of the water too. Blind people seeing for the first time during their nde's. My son who had his, was not only 100% healed when he returned, but he has rarely even been sick since then.

I have past life recall.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by SideWynder
reply to post by chrismicha77

 

when I was in the military, i got blown up... and I was clinically dead for several minutes...what I saw and experianced did change my outlook on life.. yet still I do question, was it a religious experiance? is there a "god" a supreme being, an all powerfull "creator" that collects all our life force and warmly welcomes us back home..
Or is it just a chemical reaction that we experiance as our bodily functions shut down....I do not know, I have no answers to this question... all I know is that what I experienced has raised more questions..

All I want to know is WHAT IS THE POINT to these experiences when death approaches? Why does the body not simply shut down and numb the pain? Why the elaborate show? Last minute entertainment to pass the time??? Very peculiar the way the body handles such stress.

We are not even our bodies. We are the drivers of the ai suit body human, which is made of space dust. The universe is interesting in itself, and so are stars, and where the Light really comes from.

Originally posted by Nastradamus
My mother was told that she could no longer have kids anymore, yet some how I popped out. I had to give the finger to death before I even drew my first breath. My mother almost lost me and had to stay in hospital under constant supervision for a month and a half. In the end, they had to force labour because I refused to come out

I'm only 21 but I've had a bizarre and eventful life. I know I have people watching over me and protecting me. There have been several moments when I was a young child, just playing around and being stupid and could have easily gotten hurt. Potentially ending my life, but some how I dodge the metaphoric bullet altogether or came out of the situation unscathed or with minimal injuries.

My mother used to look after elderly people and when I was just 2 or 3, one of her main patients which she had over at our house all the time died of old age. Till this day, my mother still tells me how that day I was standing in the living room pointing in the corner and saying the name of the deseased person and I just kept repeating her name and pointing/staring at the one corner in our living room. Practically scared the crap out of my mom literally. Several years back, my aunt (on my mother side) suddenly died of an aneurysm. My mother still suffers emotional pain over the dream she had shortly after the death of her sister where a train passes by and rides off into the distance. As the train is passing, my mother catches a glimpse of somebody waving to her. When my mother focused her perspective on the person, it was her sister just staring right into her eyes and waving.

I know my mothers time is coming to a close very soon. She was diagnosed with cancer back in early May of this year. Unfortunately treatments didn't work and the cancer was too advanced so it continued to spread. Her energy has been decreasing dramatically over the past 2 weeks. Now she confined to only her bed practically. Hasn't had a bowel movement in over a week and barely eats. She's suffering a lot right now and it's hard to sit and watch. I just hope that w/e happens, she goes in peace and to a better place without any suffering. Reading through this thread was hard... but that's life I guess. Just as in life, you must hope for a better tomorrow. Even in "death"

edit on 15-9-2011 by Nastradamus because: (no reason given)

HUGS to you! Your story is both inspirational and sad. How wonderful it is that you rmother has a kind loving child like you. Stand tall. I am impressed by your words and devotion. I wish you both all the best. I hope you are correct and that there is more to us than this single state of being. Maybe we are like the butterfly. After we no longer need this shell we transform into something else. Anything is possible. We can hope.

nothing happens after you die because your brain doesn't work when you're dead. right before your brain dies it releases hallucinogens (u get high, literally). you can be brought back with or without brain damage, but whatever you experience is not reality. that's why most or no OBEs are the same. sure bright lights, maybe a tunnel but that's what most are expecting to see. ppl talk to relatives and god and such but it's just a delusion. even IF two ppl have the same vision, it would be coincidence. you dont leave your body. your thought cannot leave your brain, without a brain there is no thought. you can hide something and have someone obe as a test, scientifically. the results are always the same. obes are fake. really ticks me off ppl still prefer the supernatural instead science.
/rant

i thought the bright light thing waqs just because your pupils dilate (due to the muscles in your iris relaxing) letting in too much light and so everything is just overpowered by a bright light, as for the whole floating above your dead body, didnt they do an experiment to disprove that.......link

this says about the study but i cant find what the outcome was

There are 2 books that I read that makes this post good..

They are..

Journey & Destiny of Souls - by Michael Newton
TO JibbyJedi: Alot of what he is talking about is talked about in these books, I am almost sure you can get these online for free(not pirated) but I got them a long time ago so I aint sure if they are still online now.

Another good thing to do is watch What Dreams May Come, I think they sell it at walmart but if you cant find it there I doubt you can find it anywhere else... So try searching around..

What these books talk about is people who have been put under hypnosis and the guy takes them from when they died in thier last life to right before they were born in this life, it is a really interesting read on both books..

I have been studying this death thing for a long time since before i turned 18 because of how screwed up my life was, I have only had a few hints to what the afterlife is like in my life... I will give you a story about something interestingly odd that happened in my past to show some of why I believe we are only here for particular reasons..

My son when he was younger arouind 5 or so yrs old his grandmother died.. Anyway He had a dream about a week or so later and told his that he was playing with his grandmother in the park with some old guy who was watching them. He described this guy and his mother asked her mother(actual grandmother) about this guy and she said it was her mothers dad or something along time lines.. Anyway Corbyn's mother and her were going through the grandmothers(yaya great grandmother) things and my kid decided to go look around when they pulled the images out, he shuffled through a few of the images and pulled out an images of this old guy and said this is the man he saw in his dream watching him and his grandmother play..

Anyway His mothers mother stated that the guy he pointed out in this image was the grandmothers father. The guy died in 1946 or something like that.. my son was born in 1998.. All images of this guy were packed away and he nor I have ever seen a pic of this guy and I was with his mother for about 8 yrs before the grandmother died..

Also on this same death My kids mother mother stated she had a dream about her mother after she died and said that her mother came to her and said that she was fine and typical dead people things to loved ones and the mother got scared and said that this isnt real and she was dead and woke up.. I tried to push her for more info like background and things like that but she said she doesnt remember anything like that, all she remember was her mothers face and that it was really bright...

Anyway thats all I can give you for now.. The movie What Dreams May Come is a good lesson on death, almost everything in that movie is things I have researched in the past so it isnt to far off from the truth.

As much as i love science, they do not know everything. They have been wrong before and are constantly updating what they know about things. If near death experience is purely scientific then what purpose does it serve our body, as most if not all of the things our body does is for a reason.

I think science can explain how we feel a certain thing, or why but because they have removed anything spiritual from the equation they don't see the whole picture. Isn't it a bit coincidental that we can "feel" as though we are outside ourself or "feel" as though we are having a NDE yet as a species these are things that a lot of people believe in.

Do we believe in the after life because the brain has created NDE's or do we have NDE'S because there is an afterlife.

reply to post by chrismicha77


over the years i've had many elderly family members pass on. most of them spent their final weeks or days in hospitals. at least 4 of them spoke of seeing relatives and friends..but these visitors had all passed away long ago themselves. each of these family members that spoke of such things were slowly fading from life. they were not afraid. they spoke of these visits calmly and rationally, although they themselves did not appear to be fully lucid and 'with-it', so as to speak. they were very tired looking, and the healthy gleam was gone from their eyes.

these great unknowns, life's mysteries, so many questions unanswered. they taunt us and mock us.

reply to post by JibbyJedi


I'll take your story above what science says about death anytime !!!

When my father in law got a stroke, he was rushed to the hospital, where he eventually got a massive heart attack and died for a brief moment. After we were aloud to see him, after the danger had passed, this is what he told my wife and I...

He felt the massive pain. Then it just stopped and he saw himself from above. But not just himself. He saw the doctors and nurses rushing in, he saw them trying to revive him, he saw a nurse taking his wife out of the room. He saw everything. From above. And he was brought back.

So how could the brain project itself above??????

When he told us the story, we were able to see his doctor who explained his condition and my wife told him about what his father had seen. Here was the doctor's answer:

"Don't worry about it. We see that all the time..."

So brain illusions...my big old Canadian hairy butt...

reply to post by SonoftheSun


That's the thing. There are too many people reporting things they saw during the experience, there was no way they could otherwise know. As they were clinically dead at the time.

I read a story recently, maybe on ATS, about a woman floating about while her body lay "dead", and she wandered into the waiting room. She heard a relative say he was going outside to smoke, then an Aunt, or Grandmother or someone, said she wanted to go smoke too, and she didn't even smoke, but she went with the guy, and smoked!

After the event was over, the patient discovered this had actually happened. Many stories like that. Inexplicable. They must have some merit, yes?

Well...there you go then...its official...once again science explains the mysteries of life and death!

Pffffffftt...really?

Akushla

The tunnel of light and similar effects are easily explainable because your brain releases a chemical called Dimethyl Tryptamine and the 5-methoxy adjunct of it. These is some of the strongest hallucinogens known to man. What these chemical does is stimulate nerve cells to form new synaptic junctions to allow the brain to keep the consciousness programming. After a while the chemicals cannot fix the errors as fast as the circuits in the brain fail. and you have an out of body experience or actual death. One can ingest pure '___' and simulate the effect and at a high enough dosage it will actually cause the brain to turn "off" all but very low level biophysical controls. The curious thing is that the awareness of somewhere remains after the brain activity ceases.

Originally posted by eywadevotee
The tunnel of light and similar effects are easily explainable because your brain releases a chemical called Dimethyl Tryptamine and the 5-methoxy adjunct of it. These is some of the strongest hallucinogens known to man. What these chemical does is stimulate nerve cells to form new synaptic junctions to allow the brain to keep the consciousness programming. After a while the chemicals cannot fix the errors as fast as the circuits in the brain fail. and you have an out of body experience or actual death. One can ingest pure '___' and simulate the effect and at a high enough dosage it will actually cause the brain to turn "off" all but very low level biophysical controls. The curious thing is that the awareness of somewhere remains after the brain activity ceases.

Yes yes yes...
But there is something experiencing this!

Just chemicals, you say?

Akushla

Originally posted by eywadevotee
The tunnel of light and similar effects are easily explainable because your brain releases a chemical called Dimethyl Tryptamine and the 5-methoxy adjunct of it. These is some of the strongest hallucinogens known to man. What these chemical does is stimulate nerve cells to form new synaptic junctions to allow the brain to keep the consciousness programming. After a while the chemicals cannot fix the errors as fast as the circuits in the brain fail. and you have an out of body experience or actual death. One can ingest pure '___' and simulate the effect and at a high enough dosage it will actually cause the brain to turn "off" all but very low level biophysical controls. The curious thing is that the awareness of somewhere remains after the brain activity ceases.

The funniest part of all this, 'its all chemicals' crap...is that, it mechanises the human machine...turns it into some sort of robotic device...oh yeah...the brain is like a super-computor...blah, blah, blah...
Machines are driven! A computor is programmed! Neither is self aware!

Who's driving'?

Akushla

reply to post by chrismicha77


The research that was in the OP that said the NDE of being dead was similar to delusional people with Cotard/Walking Dead Syndrome is not at all alike. The people that have that syndrome didn't have hearts that stopped or breathing that stopped or brains that stopped ...those people with that syndrome are walking around stating they are dead or that they don't exist or that they are missing organs which they have, etc. In a NDE no one is walking around talking --they are flat out, dead for a short time. Its not a delusion. Even their physicians state they had to be resuscitated in many instances.

Originally posted by Unity_99

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by SideWynder
reply to post by chrismicha77

 

when I was in the military, i got blown up... and I was clinically dead for several minutes...what I saw and experianced did change my outlook on life.. yet still I do question, was it a religious experiance? is there a "god" a supreme being, an all powerfull "creator" that collects all our life force and warmly welcomes us back home..
Or is it just a chemical reaction that we experiance as our bodily functions shut down....I do not know, I have no answers to this question... all I know is that what I experienced has raised more questions..

All I want to know is WHAT IS THE POINT to these experiences when death approaches? Why does the body not simply shut down and numb the pain? Why the elaborate show? Last minute entertainment to pass the time??? Very peculiar the way the body handles such stress.

We are not even our bodies. We are the drivers of the ai suit body human, which is made of space dust. The universe is interesting in itself, and so are stars, and where the Light really comes from.

I do consider that as a very possible truth.

Originally posted by vjr1113
nothing happens after you die because your brain doesn't work when you're dead. right before your brain dies it releases hallucinogens (u get high, literally). you can be brought back with or without brain damage, but whatever you experience is not reality. that's why most or no OBEs are the same. sure bright lights, maybe a tunnel but that's what most are expecting to see. ppl talk to relatives and god and such but it's just a delusion. even IF two ppl have the same vision, it would be coincidence. you dont leave your body. your thought cannot leave your brain, without a brain there is no thought. you can hide something and have someone obe as a test, scientifically. the results are always the same. obes are fake. really ticks me off ppl still prefer the supernatural instead science.
/rant

Not true at all. I unfortunately can't prove it to you since it didn't happen under lab conditions and was spontaneous and undocumented, but I once had an out of body experience that was corroborated by a witness. That person reported seeing me engaged in activity and facial expressions I recall having during the event, that I first thought at the time was a mere dream of me suddenly appearing in my former home. I've read over the years of other tales of such "living ghosts". My mother was also frequently witnessed as a similar living apparition.

Ignore anecdotal evidence if you prefer, but time and time again we see scientists revising their theories as new information and methodologies come to light. Scientific knowledge is not a static thing engraved in stone. It is dynamic or at least it should be if we wish to avoid it becoming as dogmatic as religion.