Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

Well, ***** you. I'm not going to build a robot or farm so you can sit on a couch and drink pina colada. Don't like work? You're eventually going to have to do some to harness resources.

Originally posted by godWhisperer

Originally posted by greenCo

Originally posted by Old77
this is a call for communism go to hell.

Are you mentally retarded??

no need to attack the guy, even if it was kind of a silly thing to say.

if the user really is "old" or even "77" then this goes along with a theory i have: people in that age range, from that generation (my parents are in their early 70s), have a hard time with the notion that not having to work as progress is deplorable. i think it might be because they (my folks) feel angry that they were forced to spend so much of their lives doing something they didn't like doing.

i don't like my job at all. i am hoping some day i might be able to do something else i like to do to support myself. i don't want to be in my 70s hating the fact i had to do something i hated for people i hated.

You are right. Post edited.

I can see what you're saying, but I don't think you're 100% on target.

First of all prisoners do not want to be in prison and it is not some kind of resort. Being in prison is to be without all personal freedoms, you like to go to the refrigerator at midnight and get a snack? Can't do that in prison. You like to go outside when you want? Can't do that. All of your most basic feelings of freedom are stripped..So yes they get "free" meals and housing but it is not in anyway a nice trade-off.

Secondly, It is human nature to want more than just the basics. Slavery is in no way comparable to our current situation. Slaves worked long tiring hours doing hard physical labor and were treated like garbage and were offered basic food to keep them alive and a basic shelter..Wooden boards and hay for bedding, no heat or air conditioning.

Money is not a "middle man", While I agree the financial system is corrupt and sometimes flawed..The money we make allows us a choice. No one is forcing any of us to have anything more than the basic necessities. No one forced me to buy a computer or a smart phone or an HDTV or extra clothes..I did it because I wanted to.

I really don't think that you'd truly be able to accept a basic necessities lifestyle with just a simple house and bedding and working on a farm all day..I don't think many people can. It's just modern society.

But, again there's always the opportunity to get on welfare, section 8 and food stamps..See how much you'd like that lifestyle..That'd be about the same as being a prisoner.

um you do realize that if we are not ensla.. ahem employed we are free to do what we want and think..... i doon't think they want us doing that.

Originally posted by yaluk
um you do realize that if we are not ensla.. ahem employed we are free to do what we want and think..... i doon't think they want us doing that.

You're free to do what you want and think right now. If you don't want to be "enslaved" quit your job and try to make it on your own. If you end up on the streets...at least you're free to do what you want!

Very well said s&f

When it's put all together like that (re: vid) he should be embarrassed.

I sort of agree..

Principly I agree with your angle but realistically I want to see advanced society and technology. The world can't just sit around getting free stuff for nothing. Someone has to produce and maintaine or our societies end up as hunter gatherers, which happens to be a lot of hard work...

I once wrote a paper outlining what I saw as the basics of what I term, the mechanised economy.


To keep it simple, we might one day use robots to replace the human workforce. Your job would then be to maintaine the robot(s) assigned too you. The rest of your time is yours. Unless you allow your bots to seriously degrade you would have a massive portion of your time free from labor. You would recieve some manner of standard allotment for your small time investment.

It's basically a full service production economy with a socialist bent.

Of course there are jobs that require the human touch... Those who train for these and give more of their time to fill these needs are more well rewarded.

If it ever happens it will require a major evolution in social values and in technology but you never know.

When people start talking "socialism" and "communism", they usually think of a utopia that doesn't exist, because you can't force millions or billions of people to completely accept your way of life. It's not like the Smurfs. You're always going to have people disagreeing with each other over basic and some substantial things.

In a socialist society you are not a slave to one boss, you're a slave to the entire population. You're no longer working for yourself, you're working for everybody around you, and they in turn also work for you. It's the beehive mentality. There is no individualism. People get jealous, envious, greedy and nasty. Some will want more free time, some will not want to work the jobs necessary to sustain everyone, some will want to take more than they need. Unless you rid people of these negative emotions and desires, it will all eventually fall apart. You would have to raise the population from infants and instill in them these self-sacrificing ideals. You would have to isolate them from the rest of the world, or live behind walls where the influence of outsiders doesn't infect them with certain ideas.

The concept of nobody having to work for their survival is appealing initially, but the truth is that it's physically impossible without having someone (or something) else do all the work for you. You can currently achieve this goal by either winning the lottery, or working your a$$ off to get rich while you're still young enough to enjoy the freedom that money has to offer.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

What an awesome perspective. I had these exact thoughts for several years, but not ever able to put it into the words you eloquently provided. You are right, most jobs actually do nothing for us, and are provided just to keep the Capitalist system going. There used to be kings in ancient times that would solve job problems by just building stuff, anything, monuments and roads. These would keep people occupied and adding something to the collective value of the kingdom. It was probably a good idea many years ago to do this, but it has outgrown its usefulness.

I see road paving crews consisting of less then 30 people pave hundreds of miles of roads in a few months. This feat was unheard of in years past. Farming like you mentioned is 1% of the workers, shows that if we had 5% farming we might not have any need to work at all. Perhaps, we rotated season by season on the essentials of life. Maybe we work a month out of a year helping build new houses for new families, or harvesting a crop, and everything else is by choice might actually work better.

I do not know if you have read that prediction of the year 2100 (I think by Edgar Casey), but it sounds like America and possibly the world finally realizes we have a stupid system at some point within this century. The system described was one where all basic needs were provided to everyone, and then people volunteered to do other jobs as they deemed fitting for themselves. There was no profit, and voluntary services were provided at no costs to anyone. Imagine that world. I need to live in that world. Where you could take a vacation, anytime you would like. You could indulge in luxuries that are produced by other volunteers as their contribution to society, and those that produce those luxuries enjoy your contribution in which you have volunteered. That a shortage in something causes volunteers to rise to the challenge and fill the need, not for profit, but for enjoyment.

Edgar Cayce is right, This is coming and people either accept it or GTFO...it's coming especially when the global collapse happens, it won't be put off forever ya know!

reply to post by doctornamtab


awesome, u are the kind of minds that stops me from deleting my ATS account

!!!!!!!!!. I agree. The fact that financial institutions are the number one money making jobs right now,shows me the world has more money than brains. I think more jobs right now consist of figuring out how to handle the money already made,than actually doing something to benefit man and make more of it. Hitler said "the jew even puts his money to work.".

I completely agree with the majority of what you wrote. If you really stop and think about it, communism could be the way to go. Of course we have learned from history that you cannot let some psychopath rule the country though. It would have to be a modified version of communism.

Everyone gets taken care of. NOBODY needs 3 cars and 2 houses and gaudy jewelry etc...I see something wrong with the current picture. Some people have too much. Some of you will pounce on that, but think about it. Not all of them "worked" for it, and I guarantee you that there are many dirt-poor people who have much tougher jobs than some of these millionaires.

Is it right that we have athletes making millions of dollars per year? NOBODY needs more than a house, transportation, food, clothing, etc...I have heard rich people say that they could never live below their current lifestyle. Their current lifestyle is extremely lavish.

To me this just seems to promote class warfare and slavery. If the have nots are working for the haves, and the have nots are dirt poor while the haves have everything, how is that not slavery? We should occupy an island and implement our own society. That would be a great experiment.

A society based on everyone helps everyone, this way everyone has everything they need, is much better than a society where too many people have way too much, while some have way too little. Think about this. You are born into this system. It wasn't your choice. The government should have land setup for people to live on that do not want to participate in society.

These people do not have a choice. It's either work as a slave or starve to death. Of course you have the option to attempt to become the master, but there's no guarantee. Successful people get to where they are many times because they are willing to take advantage of other people. This is what our economic system has bred. This is why rich people don't want to help poor people, and while poor people are usually the nicest people you will ever meet.

Despite not having anything, poor people are much more generous than the rich. It is sickening. And someone will say that the rich worked for it, and that is why they deserve it. Ya, okay, then why are there so many poor people who bust their butts way more than the rich, yet they have so little? I am all for redistribution of wealth, mainly because nobody needs millions or billions of dollars. Why horde money when people are dying everyday from hunger or exposure?

Anyone who doesn't agree with that, in my opinion, has no conscience.

This is the best thread I have read in a long time. I have always said to myself on the way to work in the rat race of rush hour traffic early in the am that we shouldn't be forced to do this so we can earn a living. Why can't we just eliminate money all together, if we did that we would eliminate with it the greed associated with it. Imagine waking up tomorrow and not having to go to work ever again, instead you and your community are helping feed one another and protect one another, day in and day out for free, now that is true freedom.

reply to post by doctornamtab


Leave it to an auditor to point out such a simple truth.

wow. I've been saying this to people for years and all i ever get is blank stares or combative accusations that I'm lazy or entitled or "dont understand what it takes to make a society." the OP was dead on an one of the more concise and convincing dialogues I've seen on the internet about this topic. I'm in finance and have grown so disgusted at how my industry wastes the minds of the smartest people programming derivatives and creating imaginary nothing-money when these people could be making such greater contributions to humanity.

One thing I would add is that in addition to how meaningless most jobs are to Americans, is how their existence depends on continuing an illusion of poverty at the factory-countries that export goods to our corporations. the GAP couldnt pay their storefront employees, corporate staff, execs and all expenses/overhead without first being able to manufacture those khakis for pennies on the dollar price they then sell to consumers (who probably also work at the mall- or as i like to think of them, the GREAT AMERICAN ILLUSION MACHINES, lol). I'm assuming this is already something many of us are aware of already though!

Thank you for presenting this in such a clear and direct fashion! S&Fx1m!

After being unemployed for 6 months I have to say I enjoy my crap job a lot more than doing nothing.
Jobs are good. Jobs give people purpose.

We Dont Need money! They do... so they can rip us off.
in the industrial age the workers had a riot over machines taking there jobs?
now we have computers and LOTS of machines taking jobs.
So how and why are so many IN Jobs???
all the basics of life Need to be free.

END the big company. stop making things Just to take money from us.
machines that are made with a limited life to make us keep buying the same thing!
If they DONT do some think like this soon.
It will all come drashing down and blow up in there face.

reply to post by havok


The "American Dream" is just like any other dream... YOU MUST BE ASLEEP TO HAVE IT.

reply to post by buddha


An interesting note about religious texts in almost every religion states, that the system of the beast will consume itself. We are witnessing the system consume itself. And you are right. The only real solution to social and economic that will last going forward is a massive effort to feed and house everyone as a right to life. This removes the concept of poor from the equation and puts many of us on a track to doing useful things with our life.

If it ever comes about, people will be fearful of such a system, but I believe they would realize its benefits of it. If we can supply enough food to feed everyone at profit, certainly we could provide enough food to keep everyone fed at no cost to themselves. If people want a prepared meal at a restaurant they can pay cash. But even the price of that should drop accordingly.

reply to post by ldyserenity


I am not sure if he was the guy who described this system but he did say the following:

"A new order of conditions is to arise; there must be a purging in high places as well as low; and that there must be the greater consideration of the individual, so that each soul being his brother's keeper. Then certain circumstances will arise in the political, the economic, and whole relationships to which a leveling will occur or a greater comprehension of the need for it."

www.near-death.com...

We are in that period I believe. Where we are realizing that the system is not fair and needs to be realigned to a higher purpose.

before anyone goes off half-cocked claiming we need communism (not in this country) ... please learn the difference ... communal living is not communism.
Communism is a form of government aimed at stealing the wealth and resources from its people.
Communal living is a lifestyle dedicated to improving the welfare/condition of all the participants while utilizing the minimum natural resources to achieve it. This is not a form of government or an ism of any kind.

I will continue to fight the advances of communism in America all the days of my life, but, i do support communal living. There is a defined difference.

The individual is often encouraged, enabled and enlightened in such an environment. Talent becomes important rather which skill pays more. Creativity naturally becomes free-flowing. Often, the act of helping another provides the self fulfillment we seek in our 'j-o-b-s', yet seldom find.

Ppl, we have reached a place where sharing food with the homeless is illegal ??? wtf ??
No one is suggesting that you give up luxuries, however, working for mere sustenance is non-productive ... and our own history bears this out.

The scary consideration is ... given the current situation world-wide, humans are more inclined to destroy rather develop, why ?? Plenty of ppl with free time, where is the effort?