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Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

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posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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If you like I can even suggest that you skip Locke's first treatise, though if you replace the concept of God with State you aren't actually all that far away from being like those who claimed their right to rule through God.

All the same, you could just skip to the second Treatise, and read that. That'll knock just over a hundred pages off for you.




posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by sickofitall2012
 


Republicans have controlled the fed gov for most of the last thirty years.

You are living in the land of denial if you blame democrats for the results of deregulation.


Deregulation is NOT why we are in this mess now.
You are the one that's in denial.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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Nice one!

Catching an opinion like this (which I share btw) makes it worth logging into ATS.

S&F.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by dgtempe
 


So why stay here?
Why not go back to Cuba?
Is this before Castro overthrew the Govt, or after?
Before AND after.
Frankly, i had no choice in the matter of staying or leaving. I'm NOT saying thats my style, i was just comenting on how you can live a very humble life, and material things DO NOT MATTER.(in retrospect)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Aeons
 


You brought up Locke, but now you can't back it up.

You claim Reagan was not a free market guy, when clearly he was, and the Reagan era ushered in the whole free market con.

If you believe in sound government regulation, then you do not believe in the free market, which is what I asked in the first place.

I don't think you know what you believe in.



Regan was a "free market" guy. Sort of. Did he "usher in" the Free Market concept. No. It existed before him. This is why his policy was called Reganomics.

My views are quite clear. Rationality is something rejected by the insane who love their insanity.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


But the military is still a government created and taxpayer supported organization. You support the military, then you support where most of your taxes go, so quite trying to pretend differently. I served as well, and support the military, I just don't pretend differently, and complain about having to pay taxes.

I don't like everything about the government, but I don't blame the government for all of my problems like you seem to do.

As far as past links, do your own research, and stop expecting me to do your work in looking for the truth. You could have taken the time to look up that information on your own, which is what you should do. Asking for proof when you could find that proof on your own is just being stubborn, in your situation, in your support of corporations.

If you don't want ATS cred, then why are you here trying to defend it.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Already read it, and you are wrong.

That you can't provide the quotes to back your claims demonstrates that you clearly over spoke.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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Oh, and you don't live in a free market. You live in an economic Oligarchy and have since the end of the Great Depression.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Aeons
 


Already read it, and you are wrong.

That you can't provide the quotes to back your claims demonstrates that you clearly over spoke.



Says the person who is extolling Communism and claiming it is something new and unnamed.

Did you miss the entire Fifth Chapter of "Of Civil Government?"
edit on 2011/10/16 by Aeons because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by macman
 



Putting that quote there makes it seem like you have an undying loyalty to the government and military . It makes you seem rigid and unshakeable in your beliefs, because, lets face it, war is awful. Why would anyone support it? You know better than we do how bad war is. So to have a quote that immediately tells us that we wont be friends because of your unwavering support of the military, it may make people judge you to be a "hard headed, rah-rah America's-never-done-anything-wrong" type.

The military is a government agency to a lot of people. Its a part of the government. I understand your experience but its not the same for a lot of us non military folk. To us the military kills poor, foreign people to line the pockets of rich people. Sorry, but A LOT of people are anti-war, any war, all war. The concept of war.

Could be why you're running into problems. You seem like a decent guy and you're pretty smart. Maybe find a different quote thats closer to what you mean.
edit on 16-10-2011 by doctornamtab because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-10-2011 by doctornamtab because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Rioting for the same system (material wealth and jobs) is living in fear. We as humans evolve. Unless they are rioting for an entire new system then nothing changes. Groundhog day just keeps repeating itself.

Peace to all.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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An entire new system of what?

If there is corruption, unless that corruption is systematic, then it can be identified and dealt with.

There is an issue. I agree. That issue is directly tied to corporations and special interests having resources to promote their candidates over the will of the people by controlling every aspect of the free media.

Got it. Absolutely true. Then let us address that problem, directly. Supplanting the heart of democracy is not acceptable. Hold them accountable.

Confabulating this with "hey, let's be a bunch of communists!" is ridiculous.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Your grasp of history is terrible.

There is no such thing as a free market economy, unless you go back to some tribal form of government, which also tends to be communistic.

Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, when Carnegie made the first huge fortune. The bankers moved in to take control and build monopolies from the beginning.

The best period of economic growth in U.S. history was from the late forties until the mid seventies, when rich people and corporations paid high taxes, and business was effectively regulated. While there were no depression, there were some recessions, but the U.S. middle class grew at its highest rate, and a working man could support his family fairly well on his salary alone. While oligarchys still existed, they were kept in check during this era. It was under deregulation in the Reagan era that corporations began growing in power, and domination of the U.S. government, and the middle class began to shrink. When Clinton took over in the nineties, he began regulating corporations again, raised taxes again, and we enjoyed the longest period of prosperity in our nations history. Newt got his dereg plan passed, and our economy was destroyed as a result.

You keep accusing me of being a communist, but there has been nothing I have said to justify your accusations. You are the one embracing the free market communistic ideology.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Buford2
 


I'm all for a new system.

Until people stop clinging to the unrealistic idealism of free market economics, which is just relabeled communism, we will keep repeating the same day.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
An entire new system of what?

If there is corruption, unless that corruption is systematic, then it can be identified and dealt with.

There is an issue. I agree. That issue is directly tied to corporations and special interests having resources to promote their candidates over the will of the people by controlling every aspect of the free media.

Got it. Absolutely true. Then let us address that problem, directly. Supplanting the heart of democracy is not acceptable. Hold them accountable.

Confabulating this with "hey, let's be a bunch of communists!" is ridiculous.


Yes! Someone who understands!

The system is corrupt. But all governments are and will be. But dismantling capitalism and more importantly democracy is not the way to go. We must work to fix what isnt working.

I have no idea what system Poetb would like to see put in place that does not have its fair share of corruption and greed. Simply because it is not possible. And ill go down fighting before i live under the yoke of communism.

I cant believe this thread is still running and Poetb still fighting! Very tenacious!
edit on 16-10-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 



Simply because it is not possible.


That is what the corporations want you to believe, but it has been done, and can be done again, in the fifties, sixties, and the nineties.

Representative government can work, and is the best system going.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nightbringr
 



Simply because it is not possible.


That is what the corporations want you to believe, but it has been done, and can be done again, in the fifties, sixties, and the nineties.

Representative government can work, and is the best system going.


But whats better is direct representation. We've never had the chance in the past. Its all been a pipe dream. But now, with communications and technology where we're at, direct democracy is possible. Its almost inevitable that we'll be texting in our votes for all addendums, appointments and laws



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Buford2
 


I'm all for a new system.

Until people stop clinging to the unrealistic idealism of free market economics, which is just relabeled communism, we will keep repeating the same day.



You don't have a free market. You have never lived in a free market. You've never even lived in a regulated market.

The market has been an Economic Oligarchy since the Great Depression.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by doctornamtab
 


You are simply explaining evolution. Humans advance because every birth is evolved from their parents. We are not machines or monkeys like the Elite have lead us to believe. Many people feel the changes coming at this time. I have heard some call it an awakening or a upgrade of consciousness. This is what I feel as well.

The last 40 years we have developed technology that our grandparents had not dreamed of. The only problem with this segment of our existence was it created a huge ego where one was put up against their neighbor. Keep up with the Jones became a goal from our Ego. The Gov. and Corporations created what our Ego asked for. Many people no longer speak to their neighbor or families. The Ego has caused every war on earth.

At this time the Ego is being removed in order for our species to survive. Many are tired of watching millions die overseas because of the Ego's that created the wars, starved millions, created the illnesses that we now live with. There is more to life than working to pay taxes to a bloodline who creates laws that keep everyone in bondage. I heard someone say something about private property earlier. There is no private property. We rent the land from the puppet masters. If we don't pay taxes they will pull it. They will also take it if they want it for their use.

Our Ego's keep this Group in charge. Many fear they cannot live without it or them. We can and we will.

Peace to all

Our species is equipped to change when we see destruction appearing to it on a mass scale. I think of it like a captipiller changing into a butterfly. We will evolve or destroy ourselves.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Once again, see this post.

My previous quote.


There is no such thing as a free market economy, unless you go back to some tribal form of government, which also tends to be communistic.

Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, when Carnegie made the first huge fortune. The bankers moved in to take control and build monopolies from the beginning.

The best period of economic growth in U.S. history was from the late forties until the mid seventies, when rich people and corporations paid high taxes, and business was effectively regulated. While there were no depression, there were some recessions, but the U.S. middle class grew at its highest rate, and a working man could support his family fairly well on his salary alone. While oligarchys still existed, they were kept in check during this era. It was under deregulation in the Reagan era that corporations began growing in power, and domination of the U.S. government, and the middle class began to shrink. When Clinton took over in the nineties, he began regulating corporations again, raised taxes again, and we enjoyed the longest period of prosperity in our nations history. Newt got his dereg plan passed, and our economy was destroyed as a result.


This is well established history.






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