The 9/11 'jumpers

Originally posted by flexy123
reply to post by pshea38

 

Yes there is IS A REASON for that kind of contrast, the picture of the fallen man shows

NORTH TOWER + SOUTH TOWER == 2 towers -> this is why there is different contrast, you see both towers on the shot.

It's sad that i as someone only remotely interested in conspiracy found that information after 2 mins of Googling, while the idiots without a brain (like on that forum where they claim the jumpers are faked) don't know this and use their own ignorance as evidence that the shot is faked.

On this page:

english.sina.com...

You can see the falling man and TWO buildings (second image on that site), with the one building to the left darker contrast than the one to the right. The fallen man picture was shot so that by coincidence and camera angle the guy is right between the two buildings.

What ***tty conspiracy theory is that which can be debunked using 2 mins work and research?

edit on 12-9-2011 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)

I truly, truly believe that the people regurgitating these obscene and insulting attacks on the victims and families of 9/11 KNOW that they are purposefully trying to hurt them. It is not a 'theory' (if you can even call it that) that anyone thinks is true.

It is very unfortunate for the human race that we always have criminal and cruel minds working within our midst, minds that get off on others misery. Maybe its a control thing, maybe they had poor upbringings, maybe they are just psychotic, maybe just immature and too full of computer games.

Its a sad fact that we have many people willing to put effort into others misery, but i think it's best to acknowledge that they do know that what they are saying is false and their only reason is to intentionally hurt people and maybe it would be best to accept their stupidity and ignore the comments. How can anyone have a meaningful debate with people who cannot communicate in a honest and normal way. Treat them like the sub-humans they are rather than responding in the way they are trying to force you to do. They get their kicks from causing a response and knowing people are upset. (they most definitely dont get off on trying to truthful, empathic and widening a debate)

Normal people are nice.

So much for compassion in a religion, a person accused of suicide to be 'sent to hell', oh that's real compassion.

If there are those that honestly believe these poor souls committed suicide and should be cast aside for this then I'm truly disappointed with your view of humanity, I'm stunned that you can attach yourself to a faith that would damn these poor people, any truly enlightened person would be hoping these people went to a better place if one existed for having their life taken away in an act of violence over which they had no control.

Do people think they wanted to be there in that building hoping to die?

These poor people had NO CHOICE, the brain instantly moves into self preservation mode ie I'm getting burnt and in pain, move to where I won't be.

For that short time of their fall the brain had made the choice to move them from the pain, the brain does not calculate beyond that, these people would have been scared beyond anything they had ever experienced, they would have wanted to live and of course they would have realised they would die in the fall but as they hung out of the window feeling the extreme pain and burning the brain would have released their grip to allow them away from it, the choice would have been made for them.

The same way as if you unknowingly touch a scalding radiator, you pull away from it in an instant, the brain and the pain receptors do that, they over ride your choice mechanism. You would do the same if you were on the edge of a building or just at home. They would have hung on until the pain was too much and then 'click' self preservation of the moment comes in, they simply HAD to get away from that pain.

So please, if you have any compassion, leave these poor people alone, stop damning them based on ancient STORIES, if you have any soul or heart then you could not attack these people. They didn't commit suicide, they were placed in an un-winnable situation and the brain chose to keep them from the horrible pain at that moment.

If your 'god' despises them for that then may I suggest you picked the wrong god....

reply to post by Mclaneinc


Agrees with you comments, star for you.

I really annoys me when you have those who use the Name of God to further their own self believes. And then try and force that belief on others. Who know what they are preaching is false.

Anyone who states that these jumpers will go to hell, are delusional at best. If I was a Christian, Jewish, or Muslim and any of my relatives were faced with that situation of wither to jump or be burnt alive. I would not shun them nor would I turn my back on them.

Just when you think there arent worse people in the world these things come crawling out of the woodwork.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by MajorTom4754
It's a bit cowardly to kill yourself by jumping, afraid to burn or face pain.
Who is to say that splattering yourself all over the pavement you wont feel
even greater pain for dying that completely outdues the burning alive?

Doctors. Doctors say that.


*You shouldn't be calling those people cowards. It is a disgraceful and a shameful thing to do and I doubt you would do it in real life.

Doctors say that???
How many Doctors have tested that theory???
Are they allowed to make stuff up???

I agree with the second part of your post.

reply to post by Eirian


Perspective:

People KNEW they would die if they stayed. If they jumped, they had at least an infitisimally small chance of surviving; which is more than they had in staying. A few people have survived falling out of airplanes with chutes that didn't open. It's rare, but, it's still a chance.

Sure, many may have been suicides ... but, I would have tried for the "longshot" of surviving the dive.

Certain religions I am familiar with are not supposed to 'judge' so it seems hypocritical for them to be so harsh.

Just my 'never been humble' opinion.

reply to post by AnonymousFem


Thank you for the kind words and star,

As you say, its amazing just how low people can go, I was always brought up with the notion of protecting my own a** but it didn't stop me trying to be a good person and help others as best I could.

Sometimes people have to think of others and not just themselves.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
reply to post by Eirian

 

Perspective:

People KNEW they would die if they stayed. If they jumped, they had at least an infitisimally small chance of surviving; which is more than they had in staying. A few people have survived falling out of airplanes with chutes that didn't open. It's rare, but, it's still a chance.

Sure, many may have been suicides ... but, I would have tried for the "longshot" of surviving the dive.

Certain religions I am familiar with are not supposed to 'judge' so it seems hypocritical for them to be so harsh.

Just my 'never been humble' opinion.

I doubt ANY of the first tower jumpers were indeed 'jumpers', logic for me says that there was no reason to jump other than from the pain of the burning. If they were in a room with fire all around them but not hurting them I'd have thought they would stay there and wait for any rescue. Now when the first tower collapsed only then might some think it might happen to their tower and possibly jump.

I say possibly because if they were not being burnt you would have thought 'well at least I'm alive' and only if the tower started crumbling might many have jumped.

Most people who are non suicidal do not jump unless there's no other option, the internal self preservation mind is very strong in pretty much all people (unless they have a mental illness).

I'm still emotionally at a loss to see how some would condemn these poor souls as cowardly sinners, for me, they are heroes who deserve adulation as opposed to some black magic cock and bull story...

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I did'nt know about those gets.....(knows what a get is).....victims giving their wives one before they died, I meant!

Althought I'm fully aware there were many Jewish victims that died on 9/11 in the Twin Towers....most think there were none.

edit on 12-9-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

We have had 10 years of documentaries on it, but I am certain it was Diane Sawyer talking about it. I will keep looking until I find the right documentary.

I think that men faced with this situation in the most horrific event had enough presence of mind to choose to think about his wife at that last moment shows love. And these people everyone calls jumpers, I am sure that many "Truthers" would also want us to think the towers are still standing and people are still working in them.

If there is a cover-up by the government, these "Truthers" are doing their best to help that government.

I escaped a house fire. It was Feb.12 1999. I was alone when it happened at 4:30 A.M. I did not stay in the house but chose to escape. Lucky for me though, it was a single story home with a front and back door. I made it out the back door in less than 5 minutes and the fire department was there 10 minutes later. The living room, dining room and kitchen was gutted. My bedroom had smoke damage, but the bed I was sleeping in had heat damage that was visible. The heat had swooped across my bed and hit the window, blowing it out. I had two little dogs, one which died from smoke inhalation in the bathroom, the other managed to make it out the door with me. Even from my experience, it was not as bad as 9/11. I was not trapped. The people there were trapped Perhaps many thought it would be better to escape this way than burn to death.

Originally posted by pshea38

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by pshea38

Let's see you take a picture of an object falling from a distance and see how clear you make it. And if you have gone to any Art College, and anyone who has gone to any legitimate arts program through any university, you would be taught the fundamental lessons of color theory, how cool colors recede and warm colors advance. The reason the back part was lighter is because it was further back. It was the other tower.

And anyone who has gone to any Art College, especially ones that teach photography, film, and graphic design have learned fundamental truths about what it takes to make or fake. The lies that this is fake is made by people who know nothing about art or color theory. They don't know that no one can edit live film as it is happening live. They do not know that no one can edit photos live, as it is happening live.

What you have is supposition based on ignorance of film editing and photo editing. Today the most advanced film editing programs still do not have the capability of editing live as it happens. When you toss pictures out there with all the little arrows and words, how do you know the person who posted the picture did not take an old picture and doctor it before telling you that someone else did?

Ask anyone who went to any legitimate Art program in any university. Color theory....warm colors advance, cool colors recede. That is fundamental. When people learn that, then we can move on to the next step.

edit on 9/12/2011 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/12/2011 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by green1
I wonder what the Pope would do if choking smoke & flames were licking his ass.

Chance would be a fine thing

i not really able to think of a worse more painful way to die than to be burned alive,although i'm sure ther are other horribly painful ways.but what i think about when i see these unfortunate people hanging and standing outside the broken windows and parts of the towers that were exposed to the outside is how they were watching helicopters filming them from not very far away and how the people up in the upper levels of both towers that were looking out,did'nt know that they were going to collapse,but when the people up there saw and heard the unimaginably thunderous roar of the tower falling right next to them,then,they knew that the tower they were standing in was going to fall as well and i wonder if thats when a lot of people who jumped,decided to jump?

Originally posted by blocula
i not really able to think of a worse more painful way to die than to be burned alive,although i'm sure ther are other horribly painful ways.but what i think about when i see these unfortunate people hanging and standing outside the broken windows and parts of the towers that were exposed to the outside is how they were watching helicopters filming them from not very far away and how the people up in the upper levels of both towers that were looking out,did'nt know that they were going to collapse,but when the people up there saw and heard the unimaginably thunderous roar of the tower falling right next to them,then,they knew that the tower they were standing in was going to fall as well and i wonder if thats when a lot of people who jumped,decided to jump?

You bring up some more valid points...

There are a multitude of reasons why someone could have either jumped.. or been pushed..

I think it is quite possible that these people held on until they could not breathe anymore, or until the fresh air seemed better than the being burnt and not being able to breathe and the heat that they were enduring. Maybe they hoped upon hope that someone would get one of those trampoline things set up after they saw enough folks jump. Why didnt the helicopters swoop over and throw down some ropes at least that would have been some hope for these people. But I never would condemn them for what they did, and I'm not God, if I have compassion to not condemn, then I have to guess that God does also, I don't think he wanted them to burn to death. And maybe as another poster stated, they felt they may have a chance even jumping...

I've never really thought about the "jumpers" before this thread. Of course, I was in 7th grade when 9/11 occurred, so I tended not to think about the horror of the event in general.

I watched The Falling Man and (besides tearing up twice) I am horrified by the amount of ignorance people have. Not so much the people in the documentary - but some of the people on here.

Whoever is small minded enough to believe that these people committed suicide must be confused as to what suicide actually entails. These people were trapped. Multiple floors below them were destroyed, so they knew they couldn't escape. The fire was rising ever-closer to their position... they knew death was coming. If anything, with the fire licking at them from inside the building, their instincts kicked in and they stumbled towards air - unfortunately this air was coming from windows over 100 stories up in the sky.
If everyone was desperately, and solely instinctually, stumbling towards the windows - people FELL or were PUSHED.

Sure, it's also possible that a few of them made the conscious decision to leap. But out of over 200 of them, I bet it was a small minority. And even for those who made the conscious decision: they were choosing between death by fire/suffocation or death by falling. Death was coming no matter what they decided. And it wasn't as though they were entirely lucid when making that decision. They were surrounded by horror. Survival instincts kicked in. They did everything they could to get out. And what with the horror surrounding them, their higher functions probably just shut down - they were numbed. It wasn't as though they were hanging onto the side of the window calmly and lucidly debating the pros and cons to jumping or not (although, it's possible a few were).





As for the ridiculous theological debate of whether or not suicide is a sin. It is a sin. But none of us, and I mean none of us, can say whether or not God would forgive. If we're going to bring theological doctrine and the bible into it, then those who say that successful suicides go straight to hell are more likely to be damned than the suicides themselves. The fate of every individual is between themselves and God. All of you disgustingly ignorant people who call yourselves religious and think you have the authority to damn someone... are hypocrites. I mean, no wonder Christians have such a bad reputation: most of them don't even know what they should believe as Christians!


Also, although it shouldn't even need to be said, the whole suicide debate is so irrelevant to the "jumpers". A suicide is when someone makes the conscious decision to end their own life. It's when someone takes God's gift of life... and throws it back in God's face. The unfortunately people who ended up jumping/falling from the WTC are not suicides!

Originally posted by SweetT
I think it is quite possible that these people held on until they could not breathe anymore, or until the fresh air seemed better than the being burnt and not being able to breathe and the heat that they were enduring. Maybe they hoped upon hope that someone would get one of those trampoline things set up after they saw enough folks jump. Why didnt the helicopters swoop over and throw down some ropes at least that would have been some hope for these people. But I never would condemn them for what they did, and I'm not God, if I have compassion to not condemn, then I have to guess that God does also, I don't think he wanted them to burn to death. And maybe as another poster stated, they felt they may have a chance even jumping...

For people who don't like that they jumped are maybe the same kind of people who tell gun shot victims to not bleed. Maybe they like to tell drowning victims to not swim out.

The helicopters, unfortunately, could not swoop down because the heat and the smoke would have made it impossible to do so. You do have compassion, which is what many "Truthers" are lacking. We don't know, maybe they died of heat or smoke and fell out. We do not know, and it is true we should not judge them.

When I was about 9 my dad was a truck driver and brought home a newspaper from St. Louis. The front page had a picture of children who were jumping from a high rise apartment that was on fire. To this day I still remember it and I am 44 now. In my child mind I could not fathom what was going through their minds.

We as the living should never question what people were thinking at their moment of death. It is not our place and it is not our right. Compassion is lacking in this world, but lack of compassion for victims of horrible acts is outrageous.

organized, religious, bible belting, brainwashed, fanatics... who even dare to down grade and say that these poor unfortunate people who died falling 1,000 ft commited a sin by suicide and are going to hell, really should have their mental midget brains analyzed for damage...and while i'm on the subject...where's their proof of god even existing?...i'm waiting...and i'll probably die waiting for an answer...because there is'nt one,thats why its called blind faith...

I remember watching the people jump/fall from the towers on 9/11, and I remember the cold hard realization the moment I first realized that those were bodies and not debris falling to the ground.

My humble opinion on this is - The people who jumped knew without a doubt they were going to die that day, one way or another. I can only imagine what sort of hell they saw when they looked into the building and saw the raging inferno. I think they had resigned themselves to the fact that coming out through the building was not an option. The human instinct to survive is very strong and has been shown to overcome all other human emotions; If those people thought that there was even a glimmer of chance of getting through the flames and smoke and down the stairs they would have tried. I think the fact that they moved towards the only available fresh air shows that there was no hope of leaving the building down the stairs. I imagine they knew their only two choices was to suffocate from smoke inhalation and burn to death from the flames or jump from the building into a free fall, knowing that within ten seconds they would ultimately meet their deaths. I have to wonder if the people who did so jumped, knowing that would be the only way their families could have their bodies back after death. If they would have burned to death, there would be nothing left of their bodies for their families. By jumping, as devestating as the damage to their bodies would have been, there still would have been something identifiable as to their identities. There would have been closure for their families. Remember all the people in the weeks after that attacks with pictures? Looking for their loved ones? Those are the ones who didn't know, and many of them will never know exactly what happened, as there were no remains left of their loved ones. They know they died, they know they are gone, but they don't know how. They psychological need for "closure" is very strong. At least the families of the people who jumped know exactly what happened. I imagine that the large number of people whose loved ones were never identified would give anything to have something, anything, to identify their loved ones remains; even if that meant they jumped. They would give anything to have some sort of either burial or cremation of their loved ones remains, some place to go to mourn their loss, some finality.

My personal opinion is I don't believe it was suicide; death was inevitable either way and those that jumped had the foresight to choose how it came. I can't say what I would have done, I cannot fathom the situation these people were placed in. After thinking about it, I would have probably jumped. The last freedom one has is to choose their manner of death, and I would have taken that. There was no hope of rescue, there was no hope of evacuation. I believe these people knew that, either conciously or sub-conciously, and reacted to it out of pure physical and psychological instinct. It is a shame that some of these families refuse to "claim" their loved ones, just because they jumped, because it appears they had no choice in dying that day. They did have a choice in the manner that they died, but it all came down to these people were victims and had no choice in the day of their death, it was thrust upon them. If it was my family member, I would take a minutae bit of solace in knowing that my loved ones remains were brought home, and not turned to ash to never be seen again.

No matter what one's opinion on the 9/11 attacks are, whether it was an outside attack or an inside job, the people who died that day were uninvolved victims. The almost 2800 people who died that day had no say in the actions taken, by whomever, and died as victims. That is what the families of these people should remember, not that they died because they jumped, or got on a plane, or even went to work that day.

This is my first post, although I have read on the site for a long time, so please be gentle with your criticism. Thanks

what took you so long to post? you express yourself with words very well...i dont think they "knew" they were going to die untill the people in one tower watched and heard the other one fall...then they knew that the tower they were in was going to fall as well and maybe thats when a lot of them who did jump,decided to do so...

dont worry Jesus isn't going to judge them. most use Jesus as a credit card to sin, not the jumpers.

Of course it wasnt suicide

What a situation to be in makes me feel sick

Iv seen a video of a man being blown out the window from an explosion

Iv seen a video of ppl trying to climb down the towers and slipped

Other chose to jump as there was no other option some may have been pushed or in their blind panic stricked and shocked state stumbled out the window.

Either was it was tragic and even more tragic their own government is responsible for this even