The 9/11 'jumpers

Originally posted by JoeDaShom
I'm sure God would claim them.

God will reject them and toss them into the hell. No offense. But that what the bible states. If you think my post is offense go take that up with the Bible. I did not write it. "God" did.

^^just fyi, the Bible wasn't written by God...rather various individuals.

Anyway, in my heart, I feel God knows what is best for those individuals.

reply to post by atomicn

TextGod will reject them and toss them into the hell.

I think that they were already in hell.

Thinking like yours is why I am glad that I do not claim any religous fanatic beliefe as my own....

If that is how god feels, then I am glad not to be associated with him.

Originally posted by atomicn

Originally posted by JoeDaShom
I'm sure God would claim them.

God will reject them and toss them into the hell. No offense. But that what the bible states. If you think my post is offense go take that up with the Bible. I did not write it. "God" did.

" sigh" and again "SIGH" no offence but that is one of THE most ignorant things i have ever had the misfortune of reading. don't use the bible as a cop out and hide behind "god". so you and some others in this thread, claim that these poor sods that came out the windows committed the sin of suicide?? i think not. and the sin of suicide is predominately a catholic thing just to clarify. to claim these people commited the act of suicide suggest that

A: they made the lucid choice to die that day/time

i highly doubt - and the suggestion is absurd - that those people made the choice to die, that they commited the apparent ultimate sin of taking their own lives by choice - which btw the suggestion of suicide is - choice. these people DID NOT have a choice, some of them were thrown out the window by the blast, some tried to get air and fell, some tried to climb out the window away from acrid smoke and burning hot fire - to escape from it - some yes perhaps choose to fall rather than burn to death - falling would be quick and painless compared to burning fromt the inside out, suffocating.

The suggestion of these people committing suicide is laughable - the mere suggestion is stupidity and takes away everything that was and that is. Unless you/ anyone has been in this situation, faced this sheer terror of suffocation, of burning KNOWING that you may never see your families again, do not judge and do not throw poppy moo moo so called its in the bible facts/fiction. on a side note and what is interesting jesus "sacrificed himself for the people to absolve them of sin. sacrifice is a big word....would this not be a term of suicide hmmmmm

"thou shalt not judge, least ye be judged"

why don't sky scrapers have 50 or 100 parachutes and store them on each of the upper floors? if parachutes were available and the people who "work in the sky" were given a couple simple lessons, it would have greatly increased the survival rate of those who jumped or fell. there would be two choices, jump with or without a parachute, not a hard choice to make. but they'll probably cry "its too $$$ expensive" for every sky scraper to be fitted with hundreds of parachutes and train every one how to use them...we certainly don't want to take away any of the greedy ceo's over blown $$$ bonuses, but theres always plenty of cash for the war machine,is'nt there and what about seat belts for the children in all school buses? too much $$$ i suppose...

reply to post by blocula


nice idea...truly it is but perhaps it is because no-one EVER thought such a thing like this would ever happen, america and indeed other nations prepare for all sorts even nuclear warfare but they never once could have imagine a scenario like this.

Explanation: S&F!

Personal Disclosure: May they ALL R.I.P.

God may judge us on one incident! How we meet our deaths! Are They looking to be Suprised! (by OmegaLogos posted on 28-2-2011 @ 12:30 AM) [ATS Off-topics: Religion, Faith & Theology forum]

Originally posted by JoeDaShom

And as they approach.... and hit the bottom

And then you see it." "What? Gandalf? …See what?" "White shores…and beyond. The far green country under a swift sunrise." "Well, that isn't so bad." "No…No, it isn't."




That was beautiful.brought tears to my eyes

Jeez, so many trolls...

In any case, it's terrible that their family and friends would turn their backs on them just because they made a decision, and no one can even say for sure that it was Suicidal in intent.

Perhaps they thought there was a slim chance to survive a fall like that. No one can know for certain, or even think to know for sure what they were thinking in a crisis situation.

Let's not forget how panicked they were. A Plane hit a building and turned their lives into living hell. I doubt the families of these people would do anything different if they were in their rejected loved one's shoes.

And to those who say it's cowardly, I would like to see how you would act in a situation like this. You might find that you're no better than the ''Cowards'' you so ignorantly proclaim.

I don`t see any of these deaths as suicide, it was not an act of freewill against God and his plans for you, destiny etc.

Something that would have helped these poor souls is base-jump training. A metal sliding platform fitted to some of the windows that can be extended up to 4 or 5 meters, to give you a distance away from the building, then parachute off. This idea would not have been suitable for all but some could have managed it, maybe zip-lines to adjacent buildings or gliders for others, external elevators...something. With all our engineering skill I am sure we could come up with something to prevent so many deaths from stricken skyscrapers.

reply to post by Eirian
[more They were victims of circumstance with the choice of burn or die now...sad

One of the reasons that so many died is because even though NYC has strict building codes, including using cement for the entire stairwells of buildings... the Port Authority, a quasi-governmental agency, in order to 'save money' applied for, and received a variance to excempt them from having to pour full concrete stairwells for the two tallest towers in the US (and I believe - the world, at that time). Ya.... they sure saved a lot of money on that one!! Good job guys.

Democratic Underground thread post

Congress members:
WTC site buildings should meet city code

Interesting link to webpage that describes how (some) people walked to safety:

WORLD TRADE CENTER LOCKED STAIRWELLS / EVACUATION PROBLEMS

I can't believe I watched that....I think it's easy to say I would chose burning to death, have you ever held a small part of your hand to a flame for a few seconds? The closer the flame gets to you, it's a reflex, you can't chose to put yourself into a flame.
Anyone that has anything bad to say about those poor people should be banned, I'd prefer to throw them in a gas fire...but that's illegal.
So BAN THEM!

I imagine a lot of these guys tried to climb down, but lost their footing.

I wonder what the Pope would do if choking smoke & flames were licking his ass.

reply to post by Eirian


I had listened to a documentary of 9/11 about how the Jewish men there had called their wives to give them a get. For those who do not know what this is, it is the declaration of divorce and allows her, according to orthodox Judaism, to remarry. This is traditional and does not go above the civil laws of the state that grants legal divorces. A get is traditional but understood by both the husband and the wife. I am not here to start a fight of disagreements about Judaism. But it is heartbreaking that these men loved their wives enough to honor them and their faith. These men were going to die and had enough grace to consider the future lives of their wives. Of course they would be widows, and these men knew this. But it shows the strength of their character to even consider their wives should remarry one day. This is kind of like giving their blessing.

I saw an interview of a witness describing how he saw a couple holding hands who jumped off the tower together.

reply to post by atomicn

God will reject them and toss them into the hell. No offense. But that what the bible states. If you think my post is offense go take that up with the Bible. I did not write it. "God" did.

No, you didn't write it.....and NEITHER did GOD. Man wrote it and man has distorted God to the point that people like you believe he is a ruthless, jealous, angry, vengeful entity who will condemn you for eternity. Someone needs to wake up here....and that someone is you.

How long are people going to continue to believe all these contradictions about God? Why would such a creator need anything from us when he IS everything and he is IN us?

I don't think God categorizes suicide as "sin" because it's an act of cowardice or choosing how or when to die as opposed to leaving it to God. I believe it has to do with the intent of leaving this life and not seeing the gift it is and bettering yourself through it's challenges. This being a "slap in the face" to God. These people knew it was their time regardless. So I think God would have mercy on the souls who in their last moments chose to go quickly rather than endure the pain of burning alive, that would very much imprint upon their soul. It is sad how people who believe every word of the bible have not their own mind to even understand the reason for the "rules". These are people who are essentially slapping God in the face by not using the mind God gave them.

Intention is the key word here. These people were not trying to escape life, they were trying to escape a painful death. How can one judge that? Even more so, how can one who is by religious command told not not to judge others not be a sinner himself?