FLT 93 The Second Debris Field

reply to post by ATH911

Can someone explain to me how a large explosion could occur, and therefore a large mushroom cloud, by a 757 that supposedly buried so fast it didn't have a chance to burn, the ground caved back in on itself covering the hole, and the part of the plane that didn't bury was its cockpit section?

Uh, who said it didn't have a chance to burn? What about all the burnt trees and ground and smoke? The ground fell back in on itself and covered the hole? Then what was that big hole from?

Originally posted by hooper

Uh, who said it didn't have a chance to burn? What about all the burnt trees and ground and smoke? The ground fell back in on itself and covered the hole? Then what was that big hole from?

He is hung up on the fact that when an object impacts the ground at high speed it creates a crater, which helps bury some of the debris of the object.

reply to post by GenRadek


Yes, he's been waving around this smoking gun about the hole in the ground and burying itself and craters and the color of engine and no luggage in the photos and any other "no-planer" nonsense you can imagine. The best has to be the one where the direct evidence of an inside job is the fact that the bucket on a backhoe being used to excavate the site was about the same size of one of the pieces of the engine.

Funny enough, the 'plane's orientation illustration looks just about right for it at a shallow angle impact, that is also allowing for the depression that was already there.

In this old archived yahoo story you can see mention of the groove in the ground, that groove was already there. Also mentioned is an unamed passenger in a toilet on a cellphone, who talks about explosions and smoke before message ends,

web.archive.org...:/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/kpix/20010911/lo/1221_1.html

If the link does not work this is a transcript, or you can U2U me.

Tuesday September 11 11:27 PM EDT
Cell Phone Call Reveals Last Moments of SF-Bound Plane
By KPIX - Associated Press
A passenger on United Airlines Flight 93 called on his cell phone from a locked bathroom and delivered a chilling message. "We are being hijacked, we are being hijacked!"


• Talk about the Attack on America


Minutes later the jetliner crashed in western Pennsylvania with 45 people aboard, the last of four closely timed terror attacks across the country.

Radar showed the San Francisco-bound Boeing 757 from Newark, N.J., had nearly reached Cleveland when it made a sharp left turn and headed back toward Pennsylvania, crashing in a grassy field edged by woods about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh. There was no sign of any survivors.

"There's a crater gouged in the earth, the plane is pretty much disintegrated. There's nothing left but scorched trees," said Mark Stahl, of Somerset, who went to the scene.

The Boeing 757 crash was one of four reported Tuesday by United and American Airlines. Two jetliners crashed into the World Trade Center in New York City and one hit the Pentagon (news - web sites) in Washington.

United said Flight 93 left Newark at 8:01 a.m. with 38 passengers, two pilots and five flight attendants.

Minutes before the 10 a.m. crash, an emergency dispatcher in Pennsylvania received a cell phone call from a man who said he was a passenger locked in a bathroom aboard United Flight 93. The man repeatedly said the call was not a hoax, said dispatch supervisor Glenn Cramer in neighboring Westmoreland County.

"We are being hijacked, we are being hijacked!" Cramer quoted the man from a transcript of the call.

The man told dispatchers the plane "was going down. He heard some sort of explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane and we lost contact with him," Cramer said.
FBI (news - web sites) agent Wells Morrison wouldn't confirm that the plane was hijacked, but said the FBI was reviewing the tape of the 911 call.

"At this point, we're not prepared to say it was an act of terrorism, though it appears to be that," Morrison said.

Reporters were taken to the top of a hill overlooking the scene. The crash left a V-shaped gouge in a grassy field surrounded by thick woods, just below a hilltop strip mine. The gouge is 8- to 10-feet deep and 15- to 20-feet long, said Capt. Frank Monaco of the Pennsylvania State Police.

Investigators believe the plane crashed there and disintegrated, sending debris into thick trees nearby, Monaco said.

"There's nothing in the ground you can see," Monaco said of the crash site. "It just looks like tiny pieces of debris.

Without citing a death toll, United said Tuesday afternoon that it had identified all passengers and crew members on board the two planes and was notifying family members. No names were released immediately.

At San Francisco International Airport, where the plane was headed, an evacuation was ordered. Bomb-sniffing dogs patrolled the hallways and a counseling center was set up for relatives of the people aboard Flight 93.

"This is a time for compassion. It's not a time for long sermons," said the Rev. John Delariva, a Catholic priest who is part of the airport's counseling team.

Flight 93 also operated as a code-share flight with Air Canada as Flight AC4085.

Originally posted by smurfy
Funny enough, the 'plane's orientation illustration looks just about right for it at a shallow angle impact, that is also allowing for the depression that was already there.

In this old archived yahoo story you can see mention of the groove in the ground, that groove was already there. Also mentioned is an unamed passenger in a toilet on a cellphone, who talks about explosions and smoke before message ends,

web.archive.org...:/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/kpix/20010911/lo/1221_1.html

That grove in the ground was 80 deg out of line with the wing marks. How did they rotate this grove in the ground to match the wing marks?

The man on the cellphone was Ed Felt. Ed's brother listened to the 911 call and said, Ed never mentioned explosions or smoke during the call.

You got any evidence for a shoot down.

reply to post by waypastvne


Thanks for the name, that means he is a real person regards the Yahoo story. As for evidence of a shootdown, I dunno, I never mentioned a shootdown, you did. I mentioned an old Yahoo story that has been archived.

Originally posted by GenRadek

Right because fuel is just going to be snuffed out quickly and disappears before igniting.

Lamest excuse ever ATH911.

What do you mean disappears?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Thats what we are working towards ATH, but first you need an understanding of forces and aerodynamics.

I think you should be more concerned about knowing what the official story is.

Originally posted by GenRadek

He is hung up on the fact that when an object impacts the ground at high speed it creates a crater, which helps bury some of the debris of the object.

You too, because according to the official story, that crater is not a crater, but a filled-back-in hole! (Yes, we know the official story is absurd.)

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by waypastvne

Thats what we are working towards ATH, but first you need an understanding of forces and aerodynamics.

I think you should be more concerned about knowing what the official story is.

Originally posted by GenRadek

He is hung up on the fact that when an object impacts the ground at high speed it creates a crater, which helps bury some of the debris of the object.

You too, because according to the official story, that crater is not a crater, but a filled-back-in hole!

(Yes, we know the official story is absurd.)

OH enough! Seriously! You have no idea how a crater works, and you are going to argue semantics about a plane crash? Geeze, google craters and how craters happen, and you will learn a lot. In fact, you will see just how foolish you are behaving with this nonsense.

Here I did your work for you:
en.wikipedia.org...

Get started. It was technically an impact crater, and the same basic principals apply. Read the part about Modification and collapse.

Originally posted by GenRadek
But the debris is no longer jet powered, and therefore beginning to drop down, while the aircraft is still under power and flying ahead at speed. The debris is starting to slow down after falling from the aircraft. Again, they would have found parts before the impact crater, not after it.

Take a look at these pictures.

Very little debris.

Only a parachuting pilot and what looks like a small piece of the plane.....which btw can be seen as travelling the same velocity as the plane and in the same direction as the plane if you look at the trajectory. And the lighter debris and pilot even continue in the same direction while the plane falls like an anvil from the sky.

But, I thought there would be a debris field behind a plane that's been shot down Gen?

www.life.com.../0

Edit: I find it quite ironic that Life would show this and have "Remembering 9/11" plastered along the top of the site.

Originally posted by waypastvne
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

FLT 93 was carrying mail, many of the crash scene witnesses describe mail scattered everywhere.

As they say "The check was in the mail".

Ah. A detail I missed. Thank You. [smile]

Here is the story of one of the first pilots off the ground, with orders to go shoot down flight 93.

F-16 pilot was ready to give her life on Sept. 11

Late in the morning of the Tuesday that changed everything, Lt. Heather “Lucky” Penney was on a runway at Andrews Air Force Base and ready to fly. She had her hand on the throttle of an F-16 and she had her orders: Bring down United Airlines Flight 93. The day’s fourth hijacked airliner seemed to be hurtling toward Washington. Penney, one of the first two combat pilots in the air that morning, was told to stop it.

The one thing she didn’t have as she roared into the crystalline sky was live ammunition. Or missiles. Or anything at all to throw at a hostile aircraft.

Except her own plane. So that was the plan.

Because the surprise attacks were unfolding, in that innocent age, faster than they could arm war planes, Penney and her commanding officer went up to fly their jets straight into a Boeing 757.

“We wouldn’t be shooting it down. We’d be ramming the aircraft,” Penney recalls of her charge that day. “I would essentially be a kamikaze pilot.”

reply to post by waypastvne

Really good disinformation and seems plausible. Great work trying to fool us. Try and do this in the real world and the papers and fragments just won't fly that far. Seriously, try it. What happened to the heavy stuff that ended up in that area. Who confiscated it?

reply to post by makeitso

It took 10 years for them to start talking about the order to shoot down flight 93. Maybe in another 10 years they will admit to shooting it down.

I am sure that that "mushroom cloud" was an alien craft. That is the only way it could have moved AGAINST THE WIND.

reply to post by waypastvne


Excellent thread....I understand your points, however, I was in Pittsburgh, on that fateful day. My friend from New Jersey called me and told me to quickly look at the LOCAL news and tell her what I saw.... I saw interviews of local citizens who found huge chunks of burned metal and debris, stretching for over 10 miles, including IN Indian Lake. While I understand stuff gets wafted by wind, huge chunks do not. These folks heard explosions and several SAW explosions in the air....all of these interviews quickly disappeared, and I never have seen them again...anywhere....My friend from Jersey smelled a rat right off, which was why she was aware enough to call me and have me report in....our local Pittsburgh news told a completely different tale than the already scripted broadcasts for NYC were telling us....

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by waypastvne

Thats what we are working towards ATH, but first you need an understanding of forces and aerodynamics.

I think you should be more concerned about knowing what the official story is.

The information that came from the Flight Data Recorder is the aircrafts official story. It's very accurate and coincides perfectly with all the photographic evidence. There is nothing more official than the FDR. If you tell me what forces those arrows represent, we'll be one step closer to looking at what was recorded in the FDR.

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by GenRadek
But the debris is no longer jet powered, and therefore beginning to drop down, while the aircraft is still under power and flying ahead at speed. The debris is starting to slow down after falling from the aircraft. Again, they would have found parts before the impact crater, not after it.

Take a look at these pictures.

Very little debris.

Only a parachuting pilot and what looks like a small piece of the plane.....which btw can be seen as travelling the same velocity as the plane and in the same direction as the plane if you look at the trajectory. And the lighter debris and pilot even continue in the same direction while the plane falls like an anvil from the sky.

But, I thought there would be a debris field behind a plane that's been shot down Gen?

www.life.com.../0

Edit: I find it quite ironic that Life would show this and have "Remembering 9/11" plastered along the top of the site.

edit on 9-9-2011 by Nutter because: (no reason given)

Gee, do you think the force that propelled them ahead of the diving plane might have come from the ejection seats ?

When a aircraft breaks up in the air the parts fluter spiral and tumble in all directions. Flt 93 was defiantly intact when it hit the ground.

Originally posted by earthdude

Really good disinformation and seems plausible. Great work trying to fool us. Try and do this in the real world and the papers and fragments just won't fly that far. Seriously, try it. What happened to the heavy stuff that ended up in that area. Who confiscated it?

I am sure that that "mushroom cloud" was an alien craft. That is the only way it could have moved AGAINST THE WIND.

Thermals pick up objects and transport them every day. I saw spiders rain from the sky in Tumit Australia one year,. The ground looked like it was covered with snow from all the webs. The spiders were said to have originally come from Africa.

Jellyfish fell from the sky in Bath, England, in 1894
Worms dropped from the sky in Jennings, Louisiana, on July 11, 2007.
Spiders fell from the sky in Salta Province, Argentina on April 6, 2007.
Scottish school children are hit by worms during PE class on a cloudless day, April 1, 2011.
Orange eggs of an unknown species of invertebrate rained down on the Alaskan city of Kivalina on August 4, 2011.

The debris traveled with the wind. If you have evidence to the contrary, produce it.

Originally posted by GenRadek

you are going to argue semantics about a plane crash?

The devil is in the details.

About what you said:

when an object impacts the ground at high speed it creates a crater, which helps bury some of the debris of the object.

Buries "some" debris? 80% of the "object" supposedly got buried. Love how you make it sound like only a little supposedly did.