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Originally posted by discharged77
What in the hell is the difference between marriage and a civil union? Why is it that gays cant be happy with a civil union that protects their rights to property, etc..?
Originally posted by rogerstigers
reply to post by sonofliberty1776
No, there is nothing EXTRA or SPECIAL about what the gay rights movement wants, they merely want the religious sanctions that limit marriage to a man and woman to be recognized as irrelevant, unconstitutional, and dropped.
This is an interesting concept... see after emancipation black people could always go to school.. so long as it was the one set aside for black people. They could always fight in the army, so long as they were in the right regiment. We see that that limitation on a right did not hold.
Rights are an unconditional assignment. Now if you can give me an absolute definition of marriage that MANDATES that it be between a man and a women that doesn't automatically disqualify ANY OTHER heterosexual marraige out there, I would listen. So far, I see no practical, pragmatic, or other reason that this right should be limited in any way shape or form based on gender.
edit on 9-4-2011 by rogerstigers because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by discharged77
Google 'Separate but equal'... there's LOTS of precedent in that area...
By your logic, African-Americans should have been plenty happy with their 'Colored Only' drinking fountains and restrooms...
Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by MasterGemini
Marriage is a socially constructed institution that has been absorbed by both religious and governmental institutions. I'm going right back there: Are you willing to strip those who are not religious of their right to marry? Is marriage only for those who are religious and are going to procreate? Any more limitations you want to put on it?
Originally posted by discharged77
I am fine with making all marriages civil unions, it wouldn't matter to me either way. I'm sure if it was up to religions to marry gays in churches they would be hard pressed to find a church that would do it?
Originally posted by MasterGemini
Where is the RIGHT to marry you are talking about?
Recognized federal civil rights law in the United States is grounded in the U.S. Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court. By this standard, marriage has long been established as a civil right.
The operative constitutional text is section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which was ratified in 1868. The relevant passages read as follows:
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
The U.S. Supreme Court first applied this standard to marriage in Loving v. Virginia (1967), where it struck down a Virginia law banning interracial marriage. As Chief Justice Earl Warren wrote for the majority:
The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men ...
To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.
Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by MasterGemini
You know damn well what I'm talking about, so don't try to get cute and use semantics to weasel out of this. According to current laws in most states and on the federal level, heterosexuals have the RIGHT to enter into a marriage contract and homosexuals do NOT have that same right. It is the LEGAL contract that we are talking about here... You know, the one that takes a LAWYER to get out of....
Homosexuals do have the right to enter into a standard marriage contract, just as heterosexuals do. Exactly equal; 1 man 1 woman.
Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by MasterGemini
You know damn well what I'm talking about, so don't try to get cute and use semantics to weasel out of this. According to current laws in most states and on the federal level, heterosexuals have the RIGHT to enter into a marriage contract and homosexuals do NOT have that same right. It is the LEGAL contract that we are talking about here... You know, the one that takes a LAWYER to get out of....
Stop comparing gay politics to the plights of blacks in this country, it's not the same thing. Please don't assume anything about my logic.
Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by discharged77
Google 'Separate but equal'... there's LOTS of precedent in that area...
By your logic, African-Americans should have been plenty happy with their 'Colored Only' drinking fountains and restrooms...
Originally posted by discharged77
Stop comparing gay politics to the plights of blacks in this country, it's not the same thing. Please don't assume anything about my logic.
Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by discharged77
Google 'Separate but equal'... there's LOTS of precedent in that area...
By your logic, African-Americans should have been plenty happy with their 'Colored Only' drinking fountains and restrooms...