If anyone has a better suggestion I want to hear it! (even if it's just to tell me what forum this

It's time for American's to take back our country from the welfare state. We won't do this by rioting, picketing, protesting or complaining. We can do this by reminding our friends and neighbors of the Pride we once took in ourselves as American's. Pride. Hope. Patriotism. These are the ideals that we have sacrificed. Teach them to your children and encourage your friends before it is too late.

The truth is that we don’t live in the representative democracy that our founding fathers envisioned. I suggest that we find a method that gives the common man actual input into the way the system functions. Let's get rid of the Electoral College and break the back of the special interest groups. Here's one way we could do it:

Step one: Design a (real-time), secure voting system. Not simply for elections but for every major issue that passes approval. Basically, give the American people veto authority over our representatives. Issue each legal citizen a password and expect them to logon and vote, at least once a year. It would become our civil responsibility.

Step two: Require all politician's to maintain a website dedicated solely to poling their constituents. It needs to be understood that our representatives are required to do what we tell them to or they are NOT eligible for re-election.

Step three: The citizen's must tell our representatives what we want them to do. The citizens must exercise their veto authority.

We are capable of having a true democracy that responds to the will of the people. Our economic and social systems have adapted to modern technology. IT IS TIME THAT OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM CAUGHT UP with the rest of us.

American's are powerful because we act in concert. When our military goals are in concert with our political goals and our populace is in support of them we become UNSTOPABLE. In this land the power of our belief is a tangible thing. However, without the support of the people nothing should get accomplished. And if the people are not behind it then it shouldn't be happening anyhow. United we stand, divided we fall.

The goal is a constitutional government that responds to the will of the people. What we need is a bloodless revolution of words and ideas. There is no cost I am not willing to pay, if the end result is the return of freedom to the people of the United States of America.

If we do not embrace and defend our hard won freedoms' then the federal government will eventually remove them. With every liberty we sacrifice, with every freedom we willingly forego and with every right we casually abandon; Americans move closer to socialism, communism and outright fascism.

We must keep America free!

“Here in America we are descended in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine.” ~Dwight D. Eisenhower, address, Columbia University, 31 May 1954

I'm pretty sure the US political madness forum would be right for this thread, but I'm not a mod.
But nice post anyways, it seems to be very galvanising and hopeful.

while i agree that something should be done, and you have some good ideas,

a true democracy would not work, our founding fathers didn't want one, and that's why we have a republic

(which now is highly corrupted)

imagine if you had some really good "ad guys" spin an issue to the public, then was voted on en masse. it could end up very poorly @49% to %51% the wrong way.

just a thought

keep up the good work!!

Wait...

I thought you said you wanted to end the welfare state...then you say you want the voice of the people heard

Every poll shows people love their social programs (if they are using it). Name offhand a single social program you reckon the people will agree to cut?
Social Security? ya...erm..no
Medicare/cade? No go
Food stamps? Hell, thats the one damn thing the government does right
etc etc etc...the social programs come to be from the common person screaming for it..not because some politician is twiddling his handlebar moustache trying to figure out how to rob the rich or some nonsense fabrication...

So sure...demand we have a full blown democracy...after all, who doesn't want everyone to be given a ferrari

The problem with everyone getting an equal say in everything quite frankly is that most people are idiots. People see things as right and wrong or who deserves what. The best way to govern is our representative republic system. The problem as I see it is that we need more viable parties. We need coalition governments where the elected officials face greater pressure to do the right thing more often. Just my thoughts but what do I know I'm an idiot too.

Originally posted by BadBoYeed

a true democracy would not work, our founding fathers didn't want one, and that's why we have a republic

A true democracy would be the worst government ever. Imagine mob rule mentality.
Occasionally a politician -needs- to stop listening to popular opinion and do whats right verses whats popular for the moment. the north -didn't want- to free the slaves...matter of fact, the concept of freeing slaves was very unpopular to the majority of people
same with womans rights, civil rights, etc.

Imagine a vote tomorrow by the people that forced christian teaching in school? it would pass because over 51% of the country would agree to it (ya, christians dance for joy over that concept, until someone reminds them in 100 years, muslims may be the main religious group in america..have your ancestors forced to kneel to allah during school..that typically brings in perspective)

yes, democracy...bah, I would prefer iron fisted dictatorship...at least if something horrible is enacted, you only have one target to change things.

Originally posted by choppedbrisket
The problem with everyone getting an equal say in everything quite frankly is that most people are idiots. People see things as right and wrong or who deserves what. The best way to govern is our representative republic system. The problem as I see it is that we need more viable parties. We need coalition governments where the elected officials face greater pressure to do the right thing more often. Just my thoughts but what do I know I'm an idiot too.

Actually, I would say there needs to be no partys whatsoever. it should be considered a scandal to find out a politician is currently affiliated with a political party.

That way, it makes the voter actually listen to the views of the person verses the letter by the name...and it makes the politician stop towing a party line and instead, do what is best for the district in the area...

Frankly, I think that right there would fix the problem...if I was to start a nation, it would have that as a core constitutional rule...no party or special interest affiliation should ever be linked to a politician due to the corrupting nature of them.

You have a good point Saturn. I think these three steps would effectively get rid of the competeing political parties and the special interest.

If the voter's were telling the politicians what to do than it wouldn't matter what their particular party was. His/Her Morale character would be of more interest.

i.e. "Will this Candidate do what we tell them to do? And if they are 100% at odd's with us, will they have the strength of character to disobey us, knowing that it will be the end of their career but also knowing they did the right thing?"

I think this would produce more Statesmen and fewer Politicians.

Originally posted by choppedbrisket
The problem with everyone getting an equal say in everything quite frankly is that most people are idiots.

Seriously? Now, I hate to be inflamatory on my own thread but when is the last time any of you people had a conversation with a stranger that lasted more than 2 minutes?

People in this country are better educated than they have ever been before. And the simple fact that everyone you meet doesn't agree with your opinion is the very definition of thinking. Right or Wrong doesn't enter into it. Only an idiot would believe everything they were told. Only an idiot would be incapable of forming their own opinion.

And the reason most people allow their opinions to be dictated by the talking heads on the television is because they won't do their own research. No people aren't idiots. I may not agree with what the average man thinks but that doesn't make him an idiot.

(Now that I think about it my opinion of the so called average man was formed by the media. No wonder I'm correcting you... because if you talk to the average man on the street he isn't an idiot... simply misinformed... Now I'm glad you set me off. thanking you.)

AND THE ONLY REASON to fear a true democracy is if you have lost your faith in the common man.

THE ONLY IDIOT'S OUT THERE ARE THOSE WHO REFUSE TO CONSIDER A NEW IDEA SIMPLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT THEIR EXHISTING PARADIGM!!!!!

One last thing... Simply because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't make them an idiot. All it means is that they are thinking their own thoughts and forming their own opinions... and isn't that what this is really all about?

reply to post by SaturnFX


One of the ways to prevent this is to show each person how much it costs them for each program. By showing an individuals the exact figures that they are putting into each program will help them decide what programs are worth funding are which are not. Perhaps through the computer system also allow people to choose which things their particular portion of taxes go into to help fund the system. Those people don't want will fade away due to lack of funding, those that are desired will remain.

Frankly, what is really needed more than any cut and splicing is for a regular citizen that has expertise in corporate fat trimming to clean out government...cut all the waste, the 20 middlemen that goes from taxpayer to program manager, etc...the programs themselves are not overly expensive, but the incredible waste and corruption that goes from money in to money out is crippling.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Kind of like a Lean Sigma for the government? That's a pretty good idea. The graft and corruption in American politics has gotten out of hand.

For example, I was doing some reasearch on Florida's Welfare and found that they have a 10billion dollar budget while only 140million is reaching the poor. Instead of them spending 9.86 billion on red tape they could give that money to local churches with the understanding that at least 50% must be filtered down to the needy. And then come tax time the churches would have to be able to provide documentation.

Just a thought. 80%-100% would probably be better. (But at the end of the year aren't churches supposed to be nonproffit anyhow?) Imagine if the people who should already be active with and aware of the needy had the money to do something about it? Imagine if our country had the courage to trust the judgement of pastors and church goers to determine if an individual should get assistance. Not only that but they could decide how much and of what kind.

What if when you found yourself in a tight spot a few bucks short or a sudden unexpected unplanned for emergency, you didn't panic or borrow money, you went to a church? Would the church throw money at you or would they be more likely to band together, collect some volunteers, grab the "Welfare-debit-card" and go get some roofing materials to fix the sudden roofing leak? (just an example i know you should have homeowners insurance.)

I think that would be nifty! Lots of bugs to work out of that concept but it's a whole lot better than what we have now.

reply to post by Kicking2bears


Giving church money (money = power) is a backstep towards progression. No, they have proven with a multi-thousand year trial period to not be working in the interest of humanity but rather to consolidate their own power base.

The fed is actually a good concept with some very bad implementation...agian, if we just audit the fed and make every single penny accounted for, and install some people to make every penny cost effective, then that should sort out the issue

The fed should be automatically audited every year, the streamlining should be a full time job for eternity..again, the concept of fed is good, the implementation is the issue..and this issue has been going without resolution since nearly its inception.