Why do you hate them?

reply to post by toxicblud


How did you get recruited in the Golden Dawn?

reply to post by underspace


I was never recruited, the Golden Dawn does not recruit.

How good or bad the secret is to guard matters. Whats the secret and why do they guard it matters. May be if I could start a secret society I would keep it secret and not blabber about its existence. A secret society is secret period.

Why do people hate them? Well, If I see people go to a place called bohemian grove and chatter who knows what and perform rituals, then would you want to know?

Its not the secret aspect of these things that one hates but the people who think that they are apart from the rest by engaging in secret activities. I silly pitty them for they are not in anyway better than an ordinary man.

Why would anyone want to start a secret society if everything is fine and dandy and nothing to worry about or to spare your attention? Well.. then something smells smokey right?

reply to post by toxicblud


So you applied via their website?

The implication is that you applied obviously, since they don't recruit. In today's world it makes sense that the application would be online.

Can you direct me to the page?

reply to post by underspace


Sure. www.thelemicorderofthegoldendawn.com You may even find yourself wanting to contribute to our orders legacy. I wish you well.

There is no application.

Originally posted by Afterthought
The Op was asking for opinions and I offered mine. I'm not spoiled, but thanks for offering up your baseless opinion of how you view me. The masons have never done anything for me. If you feel that they have benefitted me personally, do tell.

Do you live in a country where disagreeing with the government makes you automatically “guilty” and they can take your life, liberty, maim you, or take your property without even a court date judged by your peers?
Do you live in a country where there is a single state religion that dictates acceptable beliefs, and can declare any opposing view a heresy? Can that Religion’s leaders have you killed, tortured, take your property, or burn you at the stake for simply disagreeing with them?

Unless you can say “Yes” to both of these, then Yes you have in fact benefitted from masonry, and if you can say yes to both; I’m sorry you live in Iran. We’re working on that, give us time.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Regarding HHH, children DO NOT need to be involved in the activities. I've heard personal stories from people who have seen children as young as 10 given sexual hash names. There is no need for this. I have no respect for a parent who allows their child to be given a risque name by people they consider friends. How well do they know these people? I'm so glad that I was spoiled by parents who didn't feel the need to take me around to these types of activities or have friends who would think about me in a sexual way. Especially when alcohol is involved, children don't need to be around lewd people.

What nick name, give the name and let people here decide whether it is just funny, in poor taste, or dangerous. Be truthful.
You seem to have an issue with alcohol, or children near alcohol. The reality is half the world or more quite commonly drinks around entire families. Whether it’s family pubs in Europe, or pretty much any restaurant in China. Or what have you the adults drink while the kids eat, and the kids might be exposed to a bawdy joke or etc….but seem to fairly well. Some people have a problem with drinking, such people should not drink. However the majority of people around the world who drink and have kids seem to be able to do so without starting spontaneous orgies.

Originally posted by Afterthought
What if "John" does something to young Mary? What are the odds that Mary will choose not to rat out her parents' good friend? They probably wouldn't believe her anyways. Besides, mommy and daddy hang out with these people all the time. They won't have friends anymore if she says that "John" touched her or made her uncomfortable.

Wait are we talking about the Catholic Church?

Originally posted by Afterthought
Well, you can see where I'm going with this. If you can't even trust your clergymen, why are you going to trust your drinking buddies?

For one I have seen my drinking buddies drunk, I know which ones can handle it and which ones can’t be trusted to act well when drinking. Most Clergymen and politicians are used to covering up their true natures, honestly I might trust them more or less after seeing them drink a bit. Alchohol doesn’t make good people bad, it just removes the masks they wear. Good people drinking stay good people. Bad people pretending to be good usually expose their flaws after drinking.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Besides, what exactly is it teaching your child when you take them to a group where having no rules is considered cool? How are they supposed to learn boundaries and that it's not socially acceptable, for example, to pull someone's pants down in front of other people? Or that it's never acceptable under any circumstance to bully someone into taking their clothes off?

Never seen that at a HHH meet….but as I am not a HHH maybe I just don’t get invited, given that I have been to gatherings where the respective families went their separate ways after drinking I don’t feel I missed anything…..I have never seen what you describe.

Originally posted by Afterthought
In my opinion, seeing a person denigrated and not saying anything is just as bad as participating in the actual humiliation.

I agree and if that is happening at such a group, parents should not attend…..nor anyone…..I’m just saying I have never seen what you describe.

Originally posted by Afterthought
In my opinion, seeing a person denigrated and not saying anything is just as bad as participating in the actual humiliation.

I agree and if that is happening at such a group, parents should not attend…..nor anyone…..I’m just saying I have never seen what you describe.

Originally posted by Afterthought
My parents were busy teaching me that bullying was wrong and how to stand up for yourself as well as others when a bully was doing what he does best.

The organizer of local hash has as long as I have known him been the guy to defend people from bullies. He joined the military for that same reason, he lives by even a stronger set of ethics today. I have zero doubt he will try to instill honor and virtue in his kids. Neither he nor anyone in the HHH here seem to get their values from the HHH. It is merely a group that runs, and drinks beer. The outcome of the combination tends to be about the people who make up the group. I can see how such a group led by immoral people could be a bad thing…..if your local HHH group is like that. I’d stay away… again though there is no governing body…… in other news some Bars are dangerous and seedy places, and some bars are restaurants also that entire families can enjoy…..it all depends on what sort of people who frequent them.

Originally posted by AfterthoughtEDIT to Add: You stated that you didn't know enough about the Skull and Bones to have an opinion, but your avatar says otherwise. No?

edit on 31-8-2011 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)

No. The skull and bones as a symbol predates that college fraternity, it was used in masonry long before that little group ever existed. Which is where they likely took it. It was used by the Templers before that. It was used on Churches long before the Templers, and the Christian Church may have gotten it from someone else. You will find the symbol on Churches throughout Europe it's a very old symbol and was meant as a moral lesson.

There are differing views as to its origins. The two most likely I have read is as graphical depiction of the Chi Rho symbol adopted by Christian armies under Constantine. As a battle flag symbol it is “scary” and yet also symbolizes the Chi Rho and Christ’s sacrifice. The more common thought is it is simply a “Memento Mori” a symbol used to remind people of their mortality, and to therefore not waste their time or life here. In Masonry it is used to remind the mason that time is short, and to accomplish good, and to live by virtue, and honor as we never know how much time we have before we die. Most people never come to terms with their death…and live like they will not die. If more people did, perhaps the above mentioned immorality you listed would be less prevalent.

There is a view that until one fully accepts their coming death, they are not likely to fully embrace, and prudently live their life.

reply to post by toxicblud


No application and no recruitment?

So then I guess the only option left is that it was your birthright through bloodline?

reply to post by underspace


No, no, no, I think you are thinking of the golden dawn as some sort of clandestine cabal. We are merely people who follow along the same tenets and do not speak about our workings. Our order is a world wide web of practitioners of the occult, or seekers of the esoteric/priviledged knowledge. The reason we are some what secretive about certain aspects of our order is because you must take the path to our knowledge in order to recieve it. The lessons within cannot come from word of mouth for you yourself must experience them.

Admission into our order comes solely from self-initiation.

reply to post by toxicblud


Not saying I am worthy of joining, not saying you weren't.

But surely you understand the simple meaning of the words I am using?

Admission into our order comes solely from self-initiation.

Admission via self-initiation IS application. How do you self initiate your admission if not application?? So then not that website? And not bloodline? How do the worthy join then?

Our order is a world wide web of practitioners of the occult

How? Seems like you're saying you can't initiate the application and they don't recruit. So how is it a 'world wide web'?

reply to post by Doodle19815


I dont think there exists many people who fear freemasons, whats to fear about a bunch of elderly men who enjoy secretly meeting other elderly or not so elderly men, hold hands in a special way and who like to play dress ups in Turkish hats and womens aprons.

Now that i think about it maybe its a bit scarier than i first thought.

reply to post by lestweforget


Women's aprons? How dare you? Mine is very macho, it has three flowers on it....oh, wait a minute, flowers?

No, seriously, yes, we do dress a little differently than when outside, but for reason. Each item has a symbolic meaning. The idea of the apron has a number of possible origins, going back to Ancient Egypt or even Sumeria.
Should you be interested in further information, read The Symbolism of Masonry. I think it is available on Project Gutenburg. I will have to recheck that.

reply to post by underspace


You're not understanding, there is no application form for membership. There is no recruitment. You may join the order by self-initiation and applying the tenets to your life and work. There is no "worthiness" in our order, only magickal titles you may embrace through the totem pole of our philosophy and practice. Please just visit the website, this will no doubt clear your confusion. I hope you find what you're looking for.

reply to post by toxicblud


How do you become a member? I think you're the one not understanding what I am saying

Okay friend, I will go to the page again. Maybe I missed something.

You may join the order by self-initiation and applying the tenets to your life and work.

I guess they are just watching us then, and waiting for us to apply those tenets to our life and work?

Kinda starting to sound like the 'Big Brother' thing your said it wasn't

reply to post by underspace


You don't become a member in the sense of carrying a card and being listed in a document of confirmed members. You simply share the same philosophy and practice. There is no membership in a sense of documentation.

reply to post by underspace


Aside from your obvious cynical word play, I am honestly trying to help you to get a better scope of our way of life. I haven't insulted you at all and wouldn't. If you go to the website I think you would understand better.

Thank you for your interest, however minor, in our way.

reply to post by toxicblud


Man I really don't know how to become more clear then I am in my question

If you are willing, and able....

I am not asking about the membership itself.

I am asking HOW one gets to that point to begin with. You say you can't apply. You say they don't recruit. So how did you get to the point where you became a member of the Golden Dawn?

I feel I am being clear... maybe I am not. But without the ability to apply, or the ability to be recruited, what's left? How do you get from point A to B.

reply to post by underspace


What I am painstakingly trying to explain to you is that me saying I am a member does not mean that I am a documented member in an order. The golden dawn does not have this type of membership and if you get down to the brass tacks there is no membership. I am simply trying to state that I follow the same philosophy as everyone in our order. As soon as you begin to apply our philosophy to your life and work you inadvertently become a member through practice. Hundreds of thousands of people world wide follow our set curriculum and when you begin to realize our practice as your chosen path you are no longer "you" alone, you become a part of us, our order.

Originally posted by Doodle19815
reply to post by underspace

 

I guess my main question is this, (new at this) why do people feel so passionately about these groups that they have never been a part of. Why can't they just let them do their thing peacefully? They argue until blue in the face about something they have no real knowledge of.

Wow!

Why can't they just let them do their thing peacefully?

Are you sure they are doing it in peace?



These are not secret societies that people "hate"!!.....These are Societies with Secrets that people "hate"!!

Tell me why they should hold secrets if in the name of peace they act?

Originally posted by toxicblud
As soon as you begin to apply our philosophy to your life and work you inadvertently become a member through practice.

So really what you're saying is that you're not officially a member.

You embrace the philosophy so you consider yourself a member.

Fair enough. Thanks for the responses