Survey Results: Origins and Evolution

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

I suppose most are not thinking like a person from the 14th Century.

Cute, do you think that kind of talk is going to help sway people into believing the hoax of evolution?

Or is it just going to make you look rather infantile and arrogant?

Perhaps it would be better if you thought before you spoke.

I just can't watch any more... the irony is overwhelming, and it's like a train wreck in slow motion.

You really can't see how what you typed here is intimately related to the rest of what you're typing in this thread, and have not a clue the damage you're doing to the cause you CLAIM to be for, do you?

I'm kicking the dust off my feet and taking a nap before my head explodes and someone has to clean it up.

Good luck with your maker... you're eventually going to need it. A stiffer neck I have never seen.

edit on 2011/8/30 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

LOL!

You're describing exactly how i was feeling in the early hours this morning.

I'm really starting to wonder about this guy now...i have a creeping feeling this guy is an atheist, pretending to be a Christian in order to completely and utterly destroy any remaining shred of credibility such things have left around here...you know, like a religious double agent.

He's doing quite a good job, if that is his intent.

reply to post by MrXYZ


What if the whale breathed in and gave poor Jonah some air?
How'd that be?

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Please. Genetic engineering happens even in the most basic microbiology lab courses. It's not difficult at all. We can insert/delete whatever we want from any genome (and in case of insertion get it expressed as well). Designing new pathways is the next front..

edit on 30-8-2011 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

You're talking about microbial DNA, right? I'm guessing that human DNA is a wee bit more complicated. Isn't modification of Human DNA is forbidden? Im not sure.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by undo

 

It says he was swallowed by a fish, and was in the belly of it for 3 nights, what's the misunderstanding about that? Are you trying to say that never happened? Why people always try and complicate the word of God by using their own imagination is beyond me.

stop changing the subject. lol

the translation is wrong, not the original text, but the translation. he wasn't put into a great fish, he was put in a great abyss. the abyss is the bottomless pit, which is likened to hell and the lake of fire. that's why the text says he prayed from the belly of hell. question is, where's the belly of hell ?

not in a fish.

Well i dont know what bible you are reading but the story of Jonah is clear and well understood by most Christians.

1) Jonah drowned and died!

2) The BIG FISH that God was casting bait at was DEATH.
As Jonah was cast into the deep, Jesus was cast into the deep to be swallowed by death.

3) What you sow is what you reap.
Death was swallowed in victory through Jesus offering himself as bait to catch the big fish... death!

4) Like God was teaching Jonah, we are to be the LURE. We are the bait that the enemy(dead, lost humans) cannot resist. Jesus stated to 70 followers that they are sent out in love as sheep among wolves. God knows that Wolves want to eat sheep just as fish want to eat lure. Sheep lure wolves.
ex. Stephen, a food server, lured a wolf named Saul.
Wolves gnawed on Stephen.
The love of Stephen gnawed on Saul.

reply to post by spikey


No problem...

I've written and posted a thread recently where I touched on and presented my perspective on the whole "Creation vs Evolution" debate. You may find it of interest.

Who Were the Ancient Megalithic Builders?

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by undo

 

It says he was swallowed by a fish, and was in the belly of it for 3 nights, what's the misunderstanding about that? Are you trying to say that never happened? Why people always try and complicate the word of God by using their own imagination is beyond me.

We're not trying to complicate things, we're just pointing out that this claim is beyond ridiculous. There's no way a human could survive inside a fish for 3 days, it's physically (size, etc.) and biologically (lack of air, etc.) IMPOSSIBLE.

But of course the story is true, because it's in the bible. And why is the bible correct? Because it contains the words of god. And how do we know those are the words of god? Because it says so in the bible.

And round and round it goes

LIAR!!! there are atleast 2 accounts of people surviving being swallowed by whales in recent history.

Not Impossible!!!!

The next point that needs to be made is that there are creatures living in the sea which are capable of swallowing a human being whole. Sperm whales have been known to swallow unusually large objects, including a fifteen-foot long shark! (for documentation see Frank T. Bullen, Cruise of the Cachalot Round the World After Sperm Whales, London: Smith, 1898).

The whale shark, as well as the blue whale, also has the capacity of swallowing a man whole. Sperm whales and whale sharks are not unknown in that part of the world.

Furthermore, Jonah-like incidents have been known to occur. There have been at least two documented reports where men have been swallowed by large sea creatures and have lived through the experience.

One man, Marshall Jenkins, was swallowed alive by a sperm whale in 1771 and survived. Another incident concerns James Bartley. In 1891, Bartley was swallowed by a sperm whale that his whaling crew had harpooned. The whale slipped away, was found and killed a day or so later. Bartley was found alive, but unconscious, in the stomach of the whale. He was revived and in a few weeks regained his health (for documentation see Ambrose James Wilson, Princeton Theological Revue, October, 1928).

Thus, the account of Jonah cannot be rejected on the basis that:


(1) No such sea creature exists that could swallow a man whole.
(2) The incident is outside the realm of human experience.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


So these stories have a deeper meaning, nuh?
I always thought they had, I agree with you that the Bible shouldn't
be taken literally and the reader should ponder each sentence to discover
wisdom.
Well done!

and the quote: 'The love of Stephen gnawed on Saul...'

Oo-er!

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


interesting analogy!
i honestly didn't consider jonah to be dead, although he could've been. interesting. i'll ponder it.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

Well which it is - did he drown and die, or somehow make it through the ordeal?

Either way, it's highly symbolic, and a sign which Jesus adopted, and spoke of.

reply to post by A boy in a dress


I did not mean that “the Bible is not literally true.” It is literally true where it is intended to be literally true, figurative where it is intended to be figurative, poetic where is meant to be poetic, etc. Therefore, we must examine the wide diversity of biblical writing using logic, contextual analysis, etc.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

Man, whom the evolutionists claim to have come into existence over a million years ago, is said to have "stopped evolving" 100,000 years ago. Why then do we not have at least 100,000 years of civilizations, cities, and human remains?

I've said it before, yet you continue to ignore it...scientists aren't saying that!!! What they ARE saying is that we have human remains form before 50,000BC. This alone proves your entire 6000BC claim as ludacris and complete and utter nonsense.

Evolutionary estimates of the age of the earth have constantly changed and lengthened with the passing of time.

Ok...as technology becomes better, they can narrow it down further. And overall, the age estimate increased. With today's technology, the margin of error is 1%. So we know it's around 4.54b years old.

But the scientific evidence remains constant and, as new authentic evidence emerges, it only fastens down the dates even more firmly.

Yes, around the 4.5b years...

It all points to a beginning for our planet, about 6,000 years ago.

Wait what? You just admitted that science points to a point in time around 4.5b years ago. So how exactly is it suddenly 6000 years now?

Some may see it as 7,000 to 10,000 years, but the evidence points most distinctly toward a date of about 4000 B.C.

Either of those figures is so far from the facts, it's almost comical...you're off by a factor of over 7,500,000!!

The evidence for a recent earth is scientifically solid.

What evidence? Historical evidence speaks against it as we found human remains over 50,000 years old. Biological evidence speaks against it, geological evidence speaks against it, physical evidence speaks against it...for crying out loud, what are you talking about???

That just proves you didn't even bother reading up on what scientists say. FYI, they say modern humans first evolved around 200,000 years ago, and developing language and such for the following 150,000 years.

I doubt you'll even bother reading up on facts if they go against your belief, but just in case, here's the link: LINK

Why then do we not have 100,000 years of civilizations, cities, and remains of all kinds? But we do not. The reason is the Bible is right and the evolutionists are wrong.

But we HAVE remains from 50,000 years ago!! And I've proven above that it's the bible being wrong, not evolution...pull your head out of the sand and read the FACTUAL sources I post. Otherwise you just display ignorance...which goes against this site's "deny ignorance" mantra.

The God of heaven created our world about 6,000 years ago. Then, about 2348 B.C., a gigantic Flood covered the earth. Keeping in mind that we are dealing with very ancient events, all the evidence can be reconciled with these figures.

^^ And that's called a BELIEF! It's not based on facts, rationality, or logic. Pretending it's based on either of those is beyond silly...

Johah in the belly of the fish is a type of Christ dying on the cross and arose after the third day. I believe Jonah was in the belly of the fish and he thought he was going to die. If I was in the fishs' belly I would think I was in a pit to.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


First off Homo sapiens originated 200,000 years ago. They did not reach full behavioral modernity until 50,000 years ago. This included language and music. Migration out of Africa did not begin until 70,000 BC and did not reach Eurasia and Oceania until 40,000 BC. So, before we could begin developing things such as agriculture we first had to compete with other hominids living in these new areas. However, even by 29,000 BC we were producing such art as The Venus of Dolní Věstonice. By 10,000 BC we had become dominant players in our environment allowing us to develop such things as agriculture that were necessary for civilization to develop.

The Earth itself is currently dated at 4.54 billion years. This is achieved through a number of methods. One of the earlier methods to achieve this number involved first dating the oldest rocks we could find. This would give us a lower limit to the age of the Earth as the Earth could not be younger than the oldest rocks. This gave an age of about 4.3 billion years. Next we dated objects that would have formed at the same time around Earth. The easiest such things to date were meteors that had fallen to Earth. This process has been an ongoing one as time passes and we recover more meteors, but so far every single one we have dated has come back with an age of between 4.5 and 4.6 billion years, with most having an age of 4.54 billion years. As I stated this is just one method that is used the determine the age of the Earth but they have all provided a date of about 4.54 billion years. A young Earth on the other hand has no such evidence to support it.

Ok you can all put the sticks away, now.
The whole whale thing is moot, they all eat plankton, and as such dont have any means of swallowing a man, except an orca, or killer whale, which as it's name suggests, would swallow you in bits, rather than whole
I would like to point out a few things people may need to consider;
Carbon dating is only good up to 4000 years or so, other isotopes are longer lasting, but we have very little data about radiation conditions way back when, so there is no reference point. IMO the estimated age of 4,5 billion years is correct, give or take an eon
I hadn't realised the whole human genome had been mapped, is this true?
Kind of hard to believe when you consider the billions of combinations.
And, yes, experimenting on human dna IS illegal, far as i know.

reply to post by MrXYZ

We have human remains over 50,000 years old

Complete hog wash... did these human remains come out the ground with a little tag on them saying "Hi im 50,000 years old" ??? i very much doubt it. We both have the same evidence your just interpreting it wrong.

Radiometric dating is HIGHLY UNRELIABLE.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by A boy in a dress

 

I did not mean that “the Bible is not literally true.” It is literally true where it is intended to be literally true, figurative where it is intended to be figurative, poetic where is meant to be poetic, etc. Therefore, we must examine the wide diversity of biblical writing using logic, contextual analysis, etc.

I see, I know it's a very complicated book, some of the stories are really far-fetched -but I
think I understand what the writers were driving at.
I'm sorry if I upset you... this is great!

reply to post by playswithmachines


Not true large whales have actually been known to swallow sharks, and even 2 men, (3 if you include Jonah). The point is its not impossible and it has happened, perhaps by accident but its not impossible like your claiming.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

If the Bible may be thought of as an onion of meaning, when the layers are peeled away, at core, might it contain the great wisdom of all ages? Perhaps it was created, so that future generations would not forget their heritage and birthrite, and their place in the grand scheme of things relative to the eternal Godhead...

Perhaps it's "Wisdom Literature"..

The problem then is with the Roman Church and literalist, conservative fundamentalism (fanaticism), not the inspired authorship of the Bible.

I'll bet that when the Canon was carved in stone at Nicea, that there was a book burning of all the "heretical" texts, most of which probably laid out a process of initiation into the ancient mysteries for the purpose of realizing God.

And now the atheists if they had their way would finish the job and burn the bible and kill any notion of a Supreme Being.

After that, what are we left with, as mere animal "things" crawing around like ants on the ground of a purely material world of subjective outer first impressions (a shallow, deathful life), while the immense ocean of truth and reality lurking under the surface goes completely ignored..?

Are we on the verge of an even darker dark age, or a new age of reason and spirit and gnosis (knowledge of felt experience, understanding)? Which is it? What shall it be?

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

We have human remains over 50,000 years old

Complete hog wash... did these human remains come out the ground with a little tag on them saying "Hi im 50,000 years old" ??? i very much doubt it. We both have the same evidence your just interpreting it wrong.

Radiometric dating is HIGHLY UNRELIABLE.

I wouldn't call an error margin of 1-5% unreliable

Either way, with an error margin like that, it completely debunks that silly young earth claim....

reply to post by avatar01

How exactly do you know this? Have you ever met an extra-terrestrial organism and had the chance to analyze its DNA?

No. Have you?

However, one only need to look at Earth itself to know. There is no pattern in genes. There are patterns in evolution, but for genes? You might as well call it barfing on a wall. Even different species of beavers have multiple chromosomes more than other species of beaver. Do you really honestly expect something from a different planet to be any more similar?

The number of chromosomes and sequence of DNA within each is just an arbitrary design format to control reproduction, so that you don't mix up incompatible species. The code for your foot does not have to be where it is, that's just where the designer decided to put it. Who says you can't move the code around, or splice it with other code, or even create new life forms from scratch by combining chunks of code or creating new code from scratch? Just because we don't understand how it works, doesn't mean it is impossible.

Uh, no. Organs have genes split up in many different chromosomes some times.

Also who says you can't split them up? Because if you are advanced enough to do that, chances are you won't be bothering with biological beings anymore.

Perhaps you don't understand how genetic engineering works. In fact I guarantee you don't because nobody does. It is beyond human understanding. At least for now.

Actually we do understand it and just about the only thing preventing us from fully mastering it is "morals". If we abandoned morality and just did the "change it and see what happens" method, we'd probably had mastered it years ago.

As it stands, once simulations permit us to construct organs from specific gene elements, we will be able to master it. It's really not that hard.