Please. Sell your Gold NOW! It's a trap.

I see no value in gold other than perceived value. Just like with money. It's useless.

Finite resources required for human survival - now that's an investment!

I think we should back our money with oil, land, fresh water, seed, or something of that matter.

I know it's wrong, but it's the only one guaranteed to have some value in the end.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


Dear sbctinfantry,

Gold and silver bubbles have come before and I agree with you, we are in one now. What should also be mentioned is that the government can take your gold away from you or outlaw the purchasing of gold, same effect. Gold is heavy, hard to transport and easily identified. As a metal it has less use than steal. People somehow believe that if they have gold then they will be able to buy what they need; but, it won't work that way.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


I definitely do not own gold, but this situation is very similar as to what happened before the Great Depression. Lets hope this does not happen to America within the next few years or else all hell will break loose.

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
I say have a 1oz gold coin in your stash and a *snip* ton of silver. Silver is needed more in industrial uses than gold. The ratio that gold and silver have followed through out their monitary history is roughly 16:1 . So the price of silver should be well over $100/oz right now. People will look in hindsight at all of this and go DOH!!!!!!! why did I listen to all those stupid Buy gold now commercials? Why didnt I listen to Talltexxxan and buy silver. DANG!!!!!

You have it backwards. Gold is overpriced relative to silver. Silver doesn't have to go up to return to this ratio.

I'll go a step further. By no means am I a financial expert or a retirement expert. Going off what the OP said I'll tell you what I'm personally doing.

I have stopped contributing to 401k until my house and my credit cards are paid off. I do not have an auto loan so that doesn't apply to me but if I did that would be on my list of things to get taken care of first.

Here is my line of thinking, the interest you pay on credit cards, mortgage and auto loans is a guaranteed debt that is added onto what you owe. 401k and other investments are only a promise. Everyone was warned when signing up for 401k that it was a risk.

You would be surprised at how much you contribute to 401k after you crunch the numbers, with companies doing higher "match" percentages and the like we are all tricked into thinking its a good idea. Before tax deductions, I'm winning! Company matches 6%, I'm winning! No, your losing because your carrying around thousands of dollars of debt at different percentage rates.

My 2 cents, take it or leave it.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


Be very careful using Silver/Gold ratios as a measure of over/under value of either. Silver is a very tough game...ask the Hunt family. It's tough to gauge silver as the market is quite corrupt with manipulators.

"9:1 is the ratio of silver to gold annual mine production
6:1 is the estimated ratio of economic gold to silver in the ground (USGS)
5:1 is the estimated physical ratio of all silverware, silver/gold jewelry and other stocks above ground (according to CPM Group)
1:1 is the year-to-date ratio of investment dollar demand.
1:3 (more silver than gold) is the physical ratio of gold and silver coins/bullion"

An excerp from www.financialsense.com...

The fundamentals of both Gold and Silver are actually quite simple. Here is a simplistic and entertaining explanation to why Gold is worth so much:

Wow what a thread! I see the points both sides of the argument are making, my take is that Gold is something to invest in after everything else on the checklist (food, water, medicine, land, weapons). OP raises more points than most of you are willing to credit him for. I agree with the belief that paper gold is a factor in the recent rise of real gold, but I can't say it's fully responsible. Let's give some credit where its due and thank the treasury, the fed and numerous investment bankers who are all somewhat responsible.

Bottom line is you have no business investing into gold unless you have your other essentials already covered. As many others said, it is a backup, a hedge, a last resort to barter in a society where currency might not exist for brief period of time.

Originally posted by BeyondPerception
I see no value in gold other than perceived value. Just like with money. It's useless.

Finite resources required for human survival - now that's an investment!

I think we should back our money with oil, land, fresh water, seed, or something of that matter.

I know it's wrong, but it's the only one guaranteed to have some value in the end.

edit on 8/22/2011 by BeyondPerception because: (no reason given)

I wish I could give you 1k stars. You hit the nail on the head. You can't eat gold and no one will want gold when your belly needs filling.

Not owning gold or silver during this time of financial instability is the risk, not the other way around.

Is gold and silver in a bubble right now? NO.

Will they go into a bubble and become overvalued? YES.

The Gold/Dow ratio will become greater than 1:1, the value of gold per ounce will surpass the DOW at some point in the future. This may be any number between 3,000 and 20,000, the exact number is anyones guess.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


I went to the Socionomics Institute conference and hung around some of the brightest minds months back. During my time there, I found out that there seems to be an interest in controlling social mood and monitoring emotions to predict behaviors. They can predict outcomes with over a 90% accuracy rate.

To validate your post, members of the elite that I met are all selling off there gold and purchasing massive devalued real-estate and other resources. They have plans on purchasing Gold and Silver but only after the crash.

Currently many of them are shorting various aspects of the market.

reply to post by litterbaux


I applaud you for paying down your debt. Although not all debt is bad. A simple rule to follow is quite simply, "don't take on debt or risk without being compensated for it." If all debt was paid off there would be no dollars and we would have a full economic meltdown. Our economic system revolves around spending. Spending promotes growth, saving does not. This may sound a little backwards but on a large scale (macro) it makes perfect sense.


the silly music stops 11 seconds in

You may want to shop for a financial advisor. I do not know your age or the amount of time you plan to spend in your current home but keep in mind all that equity you are paying into your home is not making you a dime. It is like a interest free checking account. I prefer an interest only loan in a very modest home. The money which would go to the principle each month I allocate to investments with attractive yeilds with minimal risk. Keep your money working for you...

reply to post by Deja`Vu


I would be careful with real estate. What do you think is going to happen when interest rates go back up? All the people who are hanging on by a string, waiting for the market to get better are going to fold. We have not begun to see the worst of the housing crisis IMHO. I think shorting select financials may be a good play. I think commercial real estate is a good idea if you can get a loan.

I have a bit over 15k in gold right now. I am planning on selling half as soon as I can. The half I keep, I keep forever just in case. Gold was bought at around $900. I can basically pay for my oh ____ fund with the profit. If you don't escape the bubble you're a fool, but if you don't have something for when a piece of paper is worth nothing you're a fool.

If something happened, and your dollars and bank accounts were worth nothing, what would you do? Have some gold, have some ammo, and have some guns. If you are lucky enough to own property, be ready to grow and fight off people who want your food.


If you don't have the $ for gold, buy ammo. Worst case scenario, ammo > gold.

reply to post by QuantumDisciple


The biggest thing about my post is credit cards. I have never missed a payment and they jacked my rates up to 39.99% for no reason. When I called the answer I got was, "due to bankruptcies and lack of payments from customers our yield is low"

That is honestly what they told me. In layman's terms, we are getting -snipped- so we are passing the royal -snip- onto you. My plan is to buy real estate and lots of it, I don't expect the magical 401k fairy to pay for my retirement, I'm going to use my money to make more money. =).

reply to post by litterbaux


That is just ridiculous! Good for you for not taking it and taking charge of your financial well-being. My advice to you is diversify. I do not believe in putting money in every corner of the market and in all asset classes...it is like betting on every horse in a horse race. A good balance of fundamentally sound investments can work for you in all market conditions. Consider bonds, stocks (dividend yeilders, long term growth, small cap), precious metals/commodities, CD's, in addition to your aggressive real estate strategy. I would hate to see the housing market collapse on you and your basket full of eggs.

Originally posted by FusionInFLI wish I could give you 1k stars. You hit the nail on the head. You can't eat gold and no one will want gold when your belly needs filling.

Truth is, gold does have it's uses, but in general, it's just a status symbol, and that's where most of it's value comes from. I don't see it being a necessity anywhere. It's just a useful option in some cases.

It holds other common uses, like in electronics, but copper is also a great metal in conductivity. www.kp44.org... It'll be a long time before we see any desperate need for gold, other than for something to put around our wrists or around our necks, given all of the other metals widely available, and the prices they are at.

Some common uses for gold.
geology.com...

What is the true value of gold, without all of the artificial hype around it, no idea. But I doubt it to be anywhere near what people currently pay for it. We'll soon find out, I suppose.

Originally posted by Domo1
I can basically pay for my oh ____ fund with the profit.

What is in this fund? If you don't mind me asking...

Originally posted by BeyondPerception

Originally posted by FusionInFLI wish I could give you 1k stars. You hit the nail on the head. You can't eat gold and no one will want gold when your belly needs filling.

Truth is, gold does have it's uses, but in general, it's just a status symbol, and that's where most of it's value comes from. I don't see it being a necessity anywhere. It's just a useful option in some cases.

It holds other common uses, like in electronics, but copper is also a great metal in conductivity. www.kp44.org... It'll be a long time before we see any desperate need for gold, other than for something to put around our wrists or around our necks, given all of the other metals widely available, and the prices they are at.

Some common uses for gold.
geology.com...

What is the true value of gold, without all of the artificial hype around it, no idea. But I doubt it to be anywhere near what people currently pay for it. We'll soon find out, I suppose.

edit on 8/23/2011 by BeyondPerception because: (no reason given)

Let us take a bushel of rice as an example. What is the intrinsic value of a bussel of rice? Well accoding to someone who believes in labor theory, a bussel of rice is worth all the labor and materials it took to produce the bushel. This view makes sense but is deeply flawed. It does not take into consideration supply and demand. Is that bushel of rice more expensive in China or in Northern Canada? It depends on BOTH the supply/demand and the cost of production.

I know what you are thinking...rice has purpose. You can eat rice. People want rice to survive. People will barter for rice because it has great properties for a high carb meal. You can not eat gold (easily). Like the rice's riceness, gold is desired for the particular qualities inherent to gold. While rice is good to eat, and so it serves a useful function as food, gold's qualities are the exact qualities you'd want if you were to design money.

Do you understand the need for money amongst barter? A straight trade for goods rarely works as both parties rarely have the same needs for what is available to trade. Hence, a monetary unit is derived to hold value. You with your food my come across me and find that you need something that I posess a stockpile of. I am willing to barter/trade. You come to me with food in exchange for say, my medical supplies. I have enough food. What else can you offer. I want a vehicle. Your vehicle is worth more than a med kit. Are you seeing the need for a monetary unit yet?

How do people pick a medium to hold value? How do people agree on something that important? The medium must satisfy the needs of ALL parties (buyer, seller, saver, and debtor). If the medium is rejected by any facet of commerce it will fail. The medium must:

Be divisible into smaller units without loss of value

Be fungible: that is, one unit or piece must be perceived as equivalent to any other, which is why diamonds, works of art or real estate are not suitable as money

Be able to be reliably saved, stored, and retrieved (non parishable)

There should be no (or minimal) spread between the prices to buy and sell the instrument being used as money.

The value of the money must also remain stable over time (supply is regulated or naturally rare)

A specific weight, or measure, or size to be verifiably countable. For instance, coins are often milled with a reeded edge, so that any removal of material from the coin (lowering its commodity value) will be easy to detect.

Impervious to countfeiting.

These are among many of the concerns that a medium/money must address.

As you can begin to see, gold is a wonderful answer to these guidlines for defining a good/excepted exchange medium.

Gold makes a good exchange medium (money) like rice makes a good food.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


NO WAY! I held onto my gold last time this mess happened and I will hold onto it now...It means more to me then its' value, someone will have to pry it from my cold dead hands if they wish to have it...good luck with that as I won't go down without a fight!

reply to post by sbctinfantry


You're both correct and incorrect. You're correct because gold will eventually become a bubble. However your incorrect by saying to dump gold now, such as gold stocks and physical gold (coins, bullion and depository). The reason being is because when this initial bubble bursts ie: the dollar bill and everything that comes down with it, the inflation rate will sky rocket to insane levels. Since gold through out time has been an inflation stabilizer and a source of true economic value over paper money, you will be ahead of the game when the next bubble does bust, which it almost did last week. The two reasons why gold is where it's at as of today ($1900 an ounce) is because, 1: there are people out there that know that the gigs up and they know all the governments are just delaying the inevitable. So they buy gold to protect themselves. 2: Since we, the US and other major countries of the world, continue to use the failing fiat currency and injecting more fiat currency into the system our currency continues to lose it's value. So in essence the price of gold seems to be going but really the dollar bill and other currency not backed by gold is going DOWN.

However, those with gold during what I call the Greatest Depression or the bubble burst of the dollar bill will be fine. Those of you who don't are in serious trouble economically. But, once the dust settles after the Greatest Depresion (which will be a long time), things will stabilize and people will begin getting into a new currency which could be backed by gold. Things will be great for a while and people will be comfortable again. Until the mother of all bubbles starts to loom and that will be the gold bubble. Now remember, this will be far after the dollar bill bubble. Now we know that as of today's numbers, gold was at it's highest at $1900 an ounce. I can't even guess what it would be up to before and after the dollar bubble bursts. So just like today with an enormous surplus of dollar bills floating around the world the same will happen with gold, except it will be a lot worse because 1: there is only so much gold that can be dug up. Remember this isn't fiat currency which is made. 2: The price of gold will decline so sharp that no one will take it. You would need to sell off what ever gold you had after the recovery of the dollar bubble burst and before the gold bubble burst into whatever will be the future economic support system 3: If the gold bubble bursts what will back up the gold??

It would be an insane pickle we would get ourselves into. Financially for the world we are in some crazy times. The system is ment to have bubbles, small, medium, large and catastrophic. There are those whom ride the bubbles and make tremendous money and then there will be those who will not.