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Let’s talk about Knifes…

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posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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Today.... I learned that I did not get my Moose draw... that's three years in a row I put my name in and three years I've gone without Moose steaks in the freezer... oh well I'm not gonna cry


Instead Let’s talk about Knifes…


Durwood Hollis wrote a book called “Hunting Knifes” and in his book he writes about the subject of skinning knifes.

“Hide removed with the wrong blade shape is like spreading peanut butter with a knitting needle… Lots of hard work… very little progress!”


There are literally thousands of different blade shapes, points and bevels… These configurations are different because a knife is a specialized tool… Precision instruments engineered to perform a specific task. They come in every shape and size from the tiny Xacto to the mighty Bolo’s made famous by the Philippines resistance fighters of yore… Each and every knife is made for a purpose… Sadly in this day and age one of the most common purposes is to part you from your hard earned cash…

Let’s start with hunting/skinning knife’s… there are many types…A thin pointed blade for making that initial penetration, coring out the anal canal of an elk, removing reproductive and other organs threw a slit in the belly… Speaking of bellies I prefer my skinning knife to have a large rounded belly. Pealing back the hide from a freshly harvested animal, is done by rolling the hide making smooth push cuts… a keen edge (Sharp) really comes into play when stubborn connective tissue has a tight hold. This is bloody work so a good handle is every bit as important as is the blade. You want a good firm grip; a handle that doesn’t let your hand slide. I do not like folding/lock blades for this type of work… only because they are harder to clean afterwards. Recently on another knife thread we talked about gut hooks… I’ve never used one but I can see where it would make gutting fast work… Of course I was taught to skin with a small pocket “Jackknife” I still have that little Buck Cadet…. One of these days one my grandkids will be claiming it as their own…


Combat knifes are again different. The most famous of them all is the German Military three sided Trench or bayonet knife. Basically this knife produces a “Y” shaped stab cut… a cut that does not close back up. There not very practical for anything other than straight on stabbing, hard as hell to sharpen and the steel used makes them somewhat brittle… But they are prized among collectors….On more conventional fighting knifes you’ll find a small channel or grove milled into the blade. It’s called a blood grove. You all know if your stabbed removing the knife might make you bleed to death. While in, the blade is acting as a plug... Not so with a blood grove, that channel lets blood freely flow around the blade… BTW… You do know if you’re stabbing a man you have to turn the knife 90 degrees so the blade slips between the ribs, right?


Saw tooth blades came about as a need for first responders to cut through seatbelts, Para cord and other types of Web-belt. If memory serves I first started seeing them back in the 1970’s they came out shortly after the mandatory seat belt laws came into play. Saw teeth can be a bear to sharpen; I like to use a small fishing hook sharpener with a semi round body and grove to get in and around each tooth.


When it comes to rescue type knifes there is a new kid on the block… the “Razel”… Looking through a catalog I see “Blackhawk” makes one they call a “Small Pry” it’s listed as a Fixed Blade Breaching tool. Wilson Combat sells one called the, “Special Response Tool”…Both these knife’s are in the $200 price range… Typically this type of knife is make from D-2 tool steel… it needs to be strong as they use this type of knife to pry open doors with its wedge (Chisel) shaped tip. For an even more heavy duty version you can turn a car door into scrap metal with, look at the “SPAX” from the Ontario Knife Company. They have been supplying equipment to the US military since 1942… the SPAX is the first multipurpose rescue axe, designed for Firefighters and S.W.A.T. teams. I have one I keep in the truck. I’ve used it to chop down old wooden fence posts, rip open rotten logs. I even used it to break into one of my out buildings when we first moved in. Talk about ugly….

Now I’m not going to go into a lot of detail when it comes to knife steel… but there are some general guidelines to follow… first any knife stamped “440 stainless” is crap… hard to sharpen and will not hold an edge for long. 440 in and of itself isn’t bad… the Benchmade 10350 APHID is a fine knife 440C (58-60HRC) stainless steel. But you see the difference in the way that info is presented? 440 stainless vs. 440C (58-60HRC)… A good knife maker is proud to display their high carbon content and Rockwell hardness… while a poor quality knife maker gives you as little information as possible. We already talked about D-2 Tool steel… that’s about as hard a steel as you get, used mostly in knifes that will be used to pry. But Micro Tech makes nifty front opening Tanto its made out of D-2… Little wonder it’s a $375 dollar blade. One of my all-time favorite knife makers “PUMA” used 1095 High Carbon steel in their top line knifes. Man you can get those knifes razor sharp and each knife will have a little dot on the blade where they test each and every knife for the correct hardness… not cheap but one knife you’ll be passing down to your grandkids.

Before I move on let’s talk about handles… after all, if you can’t grip your knife what good is it? Make sure your handle is pinned… that means it has those rivets threw the body, cheap knifes will have their handles glued… Another money saving gimmick is to make a molded handle, usually made with a rubber or a soft nylon material. They don’t hold up over time… “Cold Steel” makes some of the best knifes ever… but one of the nastiest cuts I ever got was when my hand slipped and slid up the blade of one of their very sharp Tanto’s…

There is no such thing as one knife that does it all… each and every knife was designed for a purpose and like all specialized tools you need to fix in your mind what purpose you intend before you go shopping… If you’re on a budget and just want a good general purpose hunting knife then look at the Gerber Metolius… For around $50 bucks their not bad… But if I’m taking a knife to war, I’m packing my Ka-Bar Extreme Fighting D-2’s… It’s an upgraded version of the old Marine Ka-Bar I was trained with…they use to make us practice not just hand to hand, but throwing this knife at a man sized targets up to 80 feet away… I got pretty good with one, still am… This version is the same style, with better steel and balance…definitely not a toy and worth every penny of the $217 MSRP… Real shame this knife isn’t still standard issue… My choice for a good skinning knife is the PUMA my dad gave me the day I got out of boot camp… same skinning knife I hope to be using for another 30 years… or longer…. Oh I still use that little Buck Cadet, mostly for whittling these days… now there is yet another lost art…whittling…


The one knife I pick up every time without thinking is the DiamondBlade “Summit” my kids pooled all their money together and got it for me a few X-masses ago. Almost the perfect shape and size, to cape skin and gut, very close to what Durwood Hollis, was writing about in his book. It may not be the best knife there is… but this knife represents “family” and it doesn’t get any better than that…There may not be one perfect do all knives out there but it sure is fun looking for that perfect blade… you might never find perfect… but a good knife quickly becomes a trusted old friend, a companion, one you can trust your life too.

I’ll leave you now with an Old Norse saying…. “A knifeless man is a lifeless man” I will only add that a crappy knife is every bit as bad as no knife… save your pennies for the good ones… or make sure your family knows what you want and wait for them to surprise you.


edit on 22-8-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


Knives? Haha, sorry for going there. But, I always keep my 4.5" Winchester blade on me. Haven't had to use it yet, thankfully!



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by josh2009s
 


You win, if we talk ranged combat and war. Also easyer for you to shoot some food, but

In close combat you would get owned by any blade, if the one using it know's what hes doing.

And if we talk about real survival over longer periods of time (without a ammo store around the cornor) i would choose a good knife too.
edit on 22-8-2011 by Mimir because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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this is my current favorite survival knife, always been a fan of Gerber.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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OP you might enjoy this, tradition knife making from ray mears survival show on the BBC

external link if embed is not working www.youtube.com...



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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Read several survival books, watch survival instructionals and you will start to notice a trend in the images. That is that most instructors teaching bushcraft are wearing a Mora 510 around their neck. This is because the mora is a time proven, nearly indestructible knife which is perfectly fitted to the job and, oh yeah... it cost $10.



edit on 22-8-2011 by dainoyfb because: I typo'd.



PS. Thanks for the thread DB.



edit on 22-8-2011 by dainoyfb because: I added the PS.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by N34Li3Z
 


I used to carry a Gerber 06995 Silver Trident Sheath Knife
Don't throw it... I bent mine, not a lot but enough to learn not to throw one.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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I'm sure I'll get some stick for swearing by this knife but for me, SOG Bowie 2.0.

Sat on a waiting list for 5 months to get mine. Expensive? Yep. Worth it? HELL YES. You can beat the hell out if it and it will still be sharp enough to do surgery.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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seriously cool thread to read through, so i´ll star and flag accordingly


one little thing bothered me though and i really don´t want to be a whiner, but what is up with this....




BTW… You do know if you’re stabbing a man you have to turn the knife 90 degrees so the blade slips between the ribs, right?



like seriously



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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I'm with dainoyfb - the Swedish Mora knives are excellent all around bushcraft, hunting and carving knives. I've been using those for 20 years and the only complaint I have is the size of the the through tang makes it too easy to break the blade off if you try to pry something (not that you should, but situations arise.
Most Mora handles are wood but I recommend the plastic handle as it has a really nice grip to it that won't slip in your hand.
Wooden handles that aren't textured in some way are too slick if your hand is bloody or sweaty. Best fix for that is to wrap the handle in some cord or rawhide boot lace.
Damascus is pretty but not as functional as other steels and I agree that stainless is too hard to sharpen and too brittle to hold up under use.

For knives with saw teeth or odd shapes I use Aluminum oxide pencil stones available from Gesswein that are about 4" long by 1/8" thick. You can shape the stones to fit whatever kind of grooves you need to sharpen and they come in 5 different grits.

Last thing: Many people know how to sharpen a blade but are frustrated because they still can't put a razor edge on it. What they are forgetting to do is strop the edge.
Stropping is where you drag the sharpened edge on a clean piece of leather to remove the burr that sharpening stones leave.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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This one is too big. It's very useful on lots of things but not much for detail.

I really like the blade shape and the western style handle. The traditional handle on these kukris is small and the flare at the end digs into your hand. If this one didn't weigh 1000 grams it would be better...but it's indestructible.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by kn0wh0w
seriously cool thread to read through, so i´ll star and flag accordingly


one little thing bothered me though and i really don´t want to be a whiner, but what is up with this....




BTW… You do know if you’re stabbing a man you have to turn the knife 90 degrees so the blade slips between the ribs, right?



like seriously


Human ribs are aligned horizontally
four legged critters ribs run vertically...
so if you hold your knife normally with the blade up and down that's fine to ward off an attack dog or other wild beast...
The blade will slip between their ribs...
not so if your facing a human...
you need to turn the blade to its side...
so it will pass between their ribs without sticking or being deflected
edit on 22-8-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


yeah yeah i got that far.

i'm just disturbed by the comment.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


I got a good tool to put an edge on everything from a shovel, lawnmower right down to a tiny jackknife
Oh Look the Sharpener I use is on sale serriously I'm pissed I paid $20 bucks more for mine...
edit on 22-8-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)


Edit to add... my grandmother would use a well worn slab of concrete out on the back yard to sharpen her kitchen knives... I only ever used a strop on my old straight edge... funny thing is after all these years it still works better the bic disposable
edit on 22-8-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)


Edit to add even more... when I said I use a hook sharpener on saw blades... I use an Eze lap

they sell for like $6 or $7 bucks... I'll buy a bunch of em to give to my friends
edit on 22-8-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-8-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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The Smith is the latest and greatest in compact/ultralight carry. I have one and it can fix the serrated blades like a charm, but I only have but one blade and I hate it so I sharpened it up and put it away.

For other blades a couple passes on the steel guides and one or two on the ceramic is perfect for in the field. Not as good as a custom system for the home but for the pack I dont think you can beat it for the price.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=A17VUPZA47E02M&s=generic&qid=1314042301&sr=1-1

I dont know this seller, so its not a recommendation. The one I bought my two from isnt selling them anymore.
edit on 22-8-2011 by Shadowalker because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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all i really want is an extra large (18-26 inch blade length) traditional khukuri (with the eye, blood lines, sheath, and two smaller blades), and an aitor jungle king www.aceros-de-hispania.com... --BUT i want it custom molded after i buy it to make it full tang and better quality steel. i know everyone thinks the jungle kings are cheesy, but with a few simple improvements it can be fantastically useful. plus as you go you can add/customize things to store inside it.

i really love equipment that is as functional as possible, anything too linear or specialized isn't worth carrying IMHO.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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i want one of those gerber or automatic knives.

but the state i live in deems them a safety hazard

but my state also says that of i have the cash i can go buy a full auto transferrable machine gun


makes me mad.

the bright side i can drive 20 minutes to the next state where they are legal go figure but i dont think my drvers license will allow me to purchase one.

for something as innocent as a gerber knife i wouldnt mind bending a law

this is the country we live in where the mere fact of owning something deemed illegal.


i was watchign youtube videos this weekend of survival knifes i like the k bar and the serrated edge and the price point isnt too bad.

also seen alot of gimmick knives out there like bear grylls crapola.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by dainoyfb
Read several survival books, watch survival instructionals and you will start to notice a trend in the images. That is that most instructors teaching bushcraft are wearing a Mora 510 around their neck. This is because the mora is a time proven, nearly indestructible knife which is perfectly fitted to the job and, oh yeah... it cost $10.



edit on 22-8-2011 by dainoyfb because: I typo'd.



PS. Thanks for the thread DB.



edit on 22-8-2011 by dainoyfb because: I added the PS.

Stainless steel blades suck big...



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


On one of our fishing trips up north I found this really cool stick. When I saw it I immediatly thought " Walking stick" I have seen people whittle them down and they are beautiful. I was wondering if you could recommend a good whittle knife.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Bear Grylls (born Dumbass) has his own line of "knives" now by Gerber. Reminds me of the "survival" knives that came out after the first Rambo film, "Look, it has compass in the handle, now I can totally know which direction I'm going in while getting increasingly lost!" And let's not forget the fishing line, "I can fish for food using this awesome 4 inches of fishing line!"



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