Virgin Mary and the Birth Of Jesus

reply to post by benrl


So would that not be a problem for christians – since the Romans invented christianity, they did invent christian dogma such as the trinity and the divinity of Jesus and said what books went in the bible and what to keep out

reply to post by racasan


You think it would wouldn't you?

That was what the protestant reformation was about, Martin luther and all that.

But still even the Protestants ignore many of the false hoods.

I strongly believe in knowing your holy book and its history if you chose to follow a faith, sadly for most christians its not about the truth but about being apart of a very judgmental social club and for get things like.

ALL of the rules are summoned up by "do onto others" and Don't judge, thats gods job not yours, and many more...

as for the Trinity and Divinity of Jesus, that really is covered by the same thing, its the Trinity doctrine... I have my own theories about that but there a bit complex.

Basicly I feel that string theory could explain away all the confusion with the trinity, God being on the tenth dimension and Jesus simply being the part of him that can interact on this Dimension. It would explain why Jesus said there where things he did not know that god did, as well as the odd phrasing of things said in the bible by jesus , God, and various other things.

God, is a being of immense complexity, it would be foolish to believe we could comprehend what his motives and thinking are, Ill even say its silly to think that such a silly thing like minor Doctrinal difference could condemn someone.

And the sheer vastness of the universe and multiverse could explain a lot about some of the questions people have about God.

I also believe that as a Christian, I should have no fear of science, because if what I believe is true in the end science will prove it.

reply to post by ManOfGod267

It was then that the infant Jesus began to speak in the cradle, and spoke of his prophecy for the first time.

I apologize, since I am unfamiliar with the Quran. But what prophecy did the infant Jesus speak of.
BTW, loved all the pics you added. Thanks for the efforts.

LOTZA LUV

I think there was a woman, mary or myriam, whatever. Only i think that her impregnation is misunderstood. The "angel" gabriel might was an ET. As a matter of fact, all of them "gods" in all religions of all ages speak about supernatural beings, that naturally are labeled as "gods" by narrow minded human beings of those times. Today we are introduced of alien agenda, and so on, and if one of them stood on our porch today and read our mind - we would probably not call him "god", but an ET.

reply to post by benrl


You wrote:

["Basicly I feel that string theory could explain away all the confusion with the trinity, God being on the tenth dimension and Jesus simply being the part of him that can interact on this Dimension. It would explain why Jesus said there where things he did not know that god did, as well as the odd phrasing of things said in the bible by jesus , God, and various other things."]

A cutting-edge scientific hypothesis in combination with ineffability can lead to any answer of anyone's choice. This is simply the 'god' of gaps' once more.

Quote: ["God, is a being of immense complexity, it would be foolish to believe we could comprehend what his motives and thinking are, Ill even say its silly to think that such a silly thing like minor Doctrinal difference could condemn someone."]

Such an answer can be directed both ways, and is for the duration just an accentuation of 'agnostic' positions.

Quote: ["And the sheer vastness of the universe and multiverse could explain a lot about some of the questions people have about God."]

Apart from that it isn't certain, that there is a multiverse, we have practically no rational knowledge bridging cosmos and a possible trans-cosmic existence-level. To the best of my knowledge only quantum-entaglement.

Quote: ["I also believe that as a Christian, I should have no fear of science, because if what I believe is true in the end science will prove it."]

Would that more theists could follow your example of not zealously postulating premature answers OUTSIDE FAITH.

reply to post by benrl


Yeah it is simply that. Christains cannot forget that Jesus was a Jew. They just hated him because of his magical powers.

reply to post by Ariele


I would lay off the ancient aliens lol, it was all meant to encourage disinformation.

reply to post by bogomil

A cutting-edge scientific hypothesis in combination with ineffability can lead to any answer of anyone's choice. This is simply the 'god' of gaps' once more.

Oversimplification on my part, this is specifically related to string theory directly in relation to the Aspects of the trinity that people question. I know I am presuming two things that really are a matter of "Faith"

1. that String theory is true (debatable, yet potentially provable)

2. the trinity doctrine is correct (which assumes a whole lot more and not provable.

SO yes the psychological Information bias maybe at play, but really its at play with all of us, the only thing we can do is be aware and hope our logic and rational can overpower our preset prejudice and beliefs.

Such an answer can be directed both ways, and is for the duration just an accentuation of 'agnostic' positions.

Again my overs implication, didn't want to jack the thread with my post, What I mean is that people tend to take the bible and throw out something called hermeneutics. You need to take the book as it was intended at the time it was written not as what you think now.

So as an example, Why would God bother to tell Moses everything (the first books in the bible are not first person accounts, its what god told Moses)

How hard would it be to get advance concepts like astrophysics, evolutionary biology, and infinite universe to a man in 2000bc?

Better yet, Try to describe how the internet works to a tribes person, I am not saying they are unintelligent, just that it would be a hard sell.

So God told Moses the important highlights of the world and creation up to that point, what his limited understanding could comprehend.

TO our science based world the literal method of looking at the first few books is fantasy, AND I think thats not what it was meant to be, its not a literal historical account, its a story A father told his very young child so he understood him.

Apart from that it isn't certain, that there is a multiverse, we have practically no rational knowledge bridging cosmos and a possible trans-cosmic existence-level. To the best of my knowledge only quantum-entaglement.

True, I agree, this is all speculation, its my personal belief that it could explain thing, and not only am I christian I am an AVID scifi nut, SO theres a bit of hope for the multiverse in me.

I love theories like the conscious observer, and quantum physics, as the quote goes those that think they Understand Quantum Physics, don't Understand Quantum physics.

and I understand this maybe me grasping at rationalizing views I might not be fully reconciled with myself with my faith.

Would that more theists could follow your example of not zealously postulating premature answers OUTSIDE FAITH.

Oh if only every christian did what Jesus actually asked his followers to do, the world would be a different place. Christ is cool, his followers can be foolish and ignorant, Fearing that they have to defend the validity of their beliefs fanatically.

Personally thats when faith comes in for me, I figure Gods big enough to defend himself, thinking he needs me to do it is foolish.

reply to post by benrl


You wrote:

["SO yes the psychological Information bias maybe at play, but really its at play with all of us, the only thing we can do is be aware and hope our logic and rational can overpower our preset prejudice and beliefs."]

An answer I respect and won't quibble with.

Quote: ["Again my overs implication, didn't want to jack the thread with my post, What I mean is that people tend to take the bible and throw out something called hermeneutics. You need to take the book as it was intended at the time it was written not as what you think now."]

No serious objections on my part either, as this is similar to my own 'hobby-horse' philosophy of science. But eventually it has to manifest in clearly defined positions and intellectual honesty to be of any use. As it is now, it's often a MESS, when christians start to flip semantically and positionally from one place to another as it 'fits' best. No offence to you; you have been straight.

Quote: [" So as an example, Why would God bother to tell Moses everything (the first books in the bible are not first person accounts, its what god told Moses)"]

I'm not flippant now, but this question is both meaningless and unanswerable.

Quote: [" How hard would it be to get advance concepts like astrophysics, evolutionary biology, and infinite universe to a man in 2000bc?"]

Probably impossible. "Small thingumajic and big thingumajic make boom together?"

Quote: ["So God told Moses the important highlights of the world and creation up to that point, what his limited understanding could comprehend."]

Now THAT takes a lot of liberal interpretation, interpretation to the point where scholastics may become fashionable again.

Quote: ["True, I agree, this is all speculation, its my personal belief that it could explain thing, and not only am I christian I am an AVID scifi nut, SO theres a bit of hope for the multiverse in me."]

I'm not a rabid ANTI-theist, and I can hardly see you at a streetcorner accosting strangers with invasive fanatism.......

Quote: ["I love theories like the conscious observer, and quantum physics, as the quote goes those that think they Understand Quantum Physics, don't Understand Quantum physics."]

Me too, and I have found, that inclusive perspectives are better than exclusive.

Quote: ["and I understand this maybe me grasping at rationalizing views I might not be fully reconciled with myself with my faith."]

"The proper tool for the situation". Facts and faith can easily live together, if there's no obsession with a theory of everything found yesterday. You wouldn't look at the astronomical sky with a microscope either.

reply to post by bogomil


Thank you Bogomil, for a reasonable discussion on religion and science.

Much appreciated.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by bogomil

 

Thank you Bogomil, for a reasonable discussion on religion and science.

Much appreciated.

And the same to you.

I feel, for later contexts, that I have to make an addition to my latest answer to you on WHY 'god' told Moses what he did.

I answered according to the 'rational' implications of knowledge. Had the context e.g. been the hypothesis of 'ancient astronauts'/hyperdimensional entities which I have amongst my speculative favourites, I would have given you another, more specific answer.

I hope, we shall meet again on other threads on equally civilised forms.

reply to post by benrl

1. that String theory is true (debatable, yet potentially provable)

Hasn't string theory become the M theory? [ dubbed M because it is the mother of all theories
that explains it all lol]
It evolved into that because string theory couldnt explain the big bang.No matter how hard they
reworked the numbers. It just couldnt explain what they deemed as the simpelists fact.
But the m theory can. Sorry I keep up with it all but all the termenology is lost on me.
I prefer M theory over string, but thats just me. [ which isnt good for scientists if I back em lol]

But I agree with you about not being afraid because science will prove it.
To me it already has. GOLDEN RATIO'S is enough for me.

LOTZA LUV

reply to post by ManOfGod267


Ok, if a virgin birth isnt divine than what is it? To this day there is no such thing and there hasnt been a virgin to spontaneously concieve since Mary, so how is a conception without the use of a male to introduce the sperm, not divine? No act of lust or sex concieved Jesus. If you know anything about medical science virgin births are impossible without a male to introduce the sperm that is the other half of the childs DNA and the determining factor of the childs gender. It would be medically impossible and what is medically impossible is a miracle.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by ManOfGod267

 

Ok, if a virgin birth isnt divine than what is it? To this day there is no such thing and there hasnt been a virgin to spontaneously concieve since Mary, so how is a conception without the use of a male to introduce the sperm, not divine? No act of lust or sex concieved Jesus. If you know anything about medical science virgin births are impossible without a male to introduce the sperm that is the other half of the childs DNA and the determining factor of the childs gender. It would be medically impossible and what is medically impossible is a miracle.

I'm not a biologist, but you are probably right. It would have been a miracle, if it had taken place. So now the actually demonstrated happening is the only small detail to settle, before everything is honky-dory.

Originally posted by Ariele
I think there was a woman, mary or myriam, whatever. Only i think that her impregnation is misunderstood. The "angel" gabriel might was an ET. As a matter of fact, all of them "gods" in all religions of all ages speak about supernatural beings, that naturally are labeled as "gods" by narrow minded human beings of those times. Today we are introduced of alien agenda, and so on, and if one of them stood on our porch today and read our mind - we would probably not call him "god", but an ET.

You can't know if they were aliens or angels, you werent there so its all speculation. It all boils down to faith. Its going to go 1 of 3 ways. Either A, there is no God and its like atheists say we die and thats it, curtain closes. option B, what we thought were angels were really aliens and God is the captain of the starship Enterprise. Option C, maybe they got it right and God is God, the great I AM and angels are really angels.

Personally i believe option C, as a christian i will not sway from my belief. You can believe whatever you want because youre going to anyway. We all have our own paths to take.

EVERYONE

There is a miraculous book by which the Gospel is in extreme detail. From how Mary's mother conceived although being barren, to way after the Crucifixion. It has true words spoken by our Lord.

Valtorta.org

The Poem of the Man-God

This book was written and published by Maria Valtorta who was being given visions of the Lord's life, by the Lord, while she was ill and dying. Also the visions are explained by the Lord.
YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH
i

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Ariele
I think there was a woman, mary or myriam, whatever. Only i think that her impregnation is misunderstood. The "angel" gabriel might was an ET. As a matter of fact, all of them "gods" in all religions of all ages speak about supernatural beings, that naturally are labeled as "gods" by narrow minded human beings of those times. Today we are introduced of alien agenda, and so on, and if one of them stood on our porch today and read our mind - we would probably not call him "god", but an ET.

You can't know if they were aliens or angels, you werent there so its all speculation. It all boils down to faith. Its going to go 1 of 3 ways. Either A, there is no God and its like atheists say we die and thats it, curtain closes. option B, what we thought were angels were really aliens and God is the captain of the starship Enterprise. Option C, maybe they got it right and God is God, the great I AM and angels are really angels.

Personally i believe option C, as a christian i will not sway from my belief. You can believe whatever you want because youre going to anyway. We all have our own paths to take.

May I commend you for your growing understanding for the difference between faith and facts, and for the equally growing understanding for egalitarian princples between faiths.

Originally posted by mikesk8s247
EVERYONE

There is a miraculous book by which the Gospel is in extreme detail. From how Mary's mother conceived although being barren, to way after the Crucifixion. It has true words spoken by our Lord.

Valtorta.org

The Poem of the Man-God

This book was written and published by Maria Valtorta who was being given visions of the Lord's life, by the Lord, while she was ill and dying. Also the visions are explained by the Lord.
YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH
i

As I presently only have this life with a limited amount of years, there IS a dilemma here. How to sort the really mad from those who possibly have any information whatsoever.

there are a few things about the bible story of Mary that bother me

is bible god married to Mary?

I see no mention of Mary’s permission to be impregnated been given, so I assume bible god raped her – did bible god pay Mary’s father 50 shekels of silver

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

So is Mary now bible gods wife?

The pictures of the Virgin Mary are very beautiful indeed.