Jesus said, "Away from me Satan...", therefore he is not Messiah

reply to post by jmdewey60

I have dealt with this topic some on other threads. I have a few different takes on it depending on what is specifically being looked into

What I'm looking for is what the Greek word CHRISTOS meant before ever it was used in the LXX to translate Messiah. Surely, it had some meaning or significance.

I read somewhere that Messiah means more than just anointed, but actually "anointed of Yah" or "Yahweh's Annointed". The Greek would lack that completely.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
So a priest or someone such as Moses takes oil and sprinkles some of it on a person, then that person has an odor to him that comes from the oil, and so God knows this person has been distinguished from the ordinary person, by his smell. That is the picture that comes to mind when I read your post. It may have nothing to do with what you are saying. You are talking about something Jesus does to you. I don't see what that has to do with the topic of the thread.
Jesus had an infilling of the spirit of God that was highly specialized for his particular mission. The one at his baptism would be an indicator of this, but to me, not so much the completion of it but the beginning of the process of becoming fully actualized.
I don't think Jesus became completely aware of what his potential was untill he was taken to heaven shortly after his resurrection. I think he knew enough for what he needed moment to moment, previously, and did not know everything coming up as being certain, as in being unchangeable.

reply to post by pthena

What I'm looking for is what the Greek word CHRISTOS meant before ever it was used in the LXX to translate Messiah. Surely, it had some meaning or significance.

I have been thinking about that and have so far done nothing other than thinking. I need to look into it some and see if I can find some useful info. I know the ordinary things I usually look at for translation is not helpful. I think it is important and in need of investigation.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

The key to have Jesus do this for you (because he is the Messiah) and not some priest is to follow the command that came out of his mouth, the moment he came up out of the water at his baptism by John - repent.

Do you have a reference for that? I can't find it in the canonical gospels. (the repent as first command)

That is the command and if one does it right, the way God teaches in the OT,

And if a Gentile doesn't want to read the OT?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Jesus read from Isaiah 61 and promised certain things for those who believe in him. And it is these things that proove he is just who he claimed - the Messiah. This thread is saying because he said "away from me Satan, he is not the Messiah" and I'm showing he is the Messiah. I didn't mention Moses. Either a person does or does not believe Jesus does these things: :

"to comfort all who mourn,
and provide for those who grieve in Zion—
to bestow on them a crown of beauty
instead of ashes,
the oil of joy
instead of mourning,
and a garment of praise
instead of a spirit of despair." Isaiah 61

Nothing quite like personal testimony when trying to make one understand He IS the Messiah or Christ whatever ones prefers to call him.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
I just don't see the connection, between what happened to Jesus and what he does for us.
We were discussing the "Messiah " prophecy in Daniel earlier and it indicates an end to there being a Messiah and not some new age of an eternal Messiah. One explanation would be a person who is not a Messiah in the old sense of the word, but a Christ in a more universal sense, that is available to all and not just to the followers of a particular local deity.

reply to post by pthena


Sure

His first command is found in Matthew 4:17 and the beginning of Mark.

I hadn't read all of the old testament when I repented. Sometimes we go through things in our lives, whether it's a spouse cheating, divorce, death of a loved one, where we realize we are so not in control and find ourselves in a world of pain and when we reach out with every fiber in us, to him, he reaches right back. We are all handed over to misery at some point - God knows this and can and does use it his advantage.

Serious repenting. I was a mess. Then one day the oil of joy showed up. It would just permeate the room. If I went out of state - it would follow. It lasted about a year until the next phase started. True repenting opens up the door that no man can close. Since then, I've went back to the OT and looked at others who were anointed..... my favorite is Esther. It says she was "prepared with perfumes and oils" for about a year. David was anointed 3 times. He is really special.

I suppose I should be more explicit. I am equating the temptation of Jesus in the desert by Satan with the appearance of YHWH to Solomon.

1KI 3:5 At Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon during the night in a dream, and God said, "Ask for whatever you want me to give you."
. . .
1KI 9:1 When Solomon had finished building the temple of the LORD and the royal palace, and had achieved all he had desired to do, 2 the LORD appeared to him a second time, as he had appeared to him at Gibeon.
. . .
1KI 11:9 The LORD became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. 10 Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the LORD's command.

reply to post by jmdewey60


He knew at the well exactly who he is because he told the Samaritan woman. He also tells us in his discourse on the Holy Spirit in the latter chapters of John, that there would come a day when he would explain things plainly to us. I'm not a wordly person, but what I"m saying is quite simple.

Here is a verse that the Early Church Fathers made quite a big deal about.
Galatians 4:19 My little children, for whom I am again in the pain of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,

They understood this somehow to mean that there is something which is a Christ that develops in a person so that they become literal dwelling places for the Trinity.
I think that may be slightly off but there seems to be some reality behind the verse which would be an alternate meaning of the word.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Serious repenting. I was a mess. Then one day the oil of joy showed up.

So what you're saying is that your personal experiences lead you to believe that Jesus is the Old Testament Messiah, sitting on a throne as emperor of the world.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

He knew at the well exactly who he is because he told the Samaritan woman. He also tells us in his discourse on the Holy Spirit in the latter chapters of John, that there would come a day when he would explain things plainly to us. I'm not a wordly person, but what I"m saying is quite simple.

I think you might be reading more into that story than is there.
Why was Jesus sweating blood in the Garden of Gethsemane?

reply to post by jmdewey60


The connection is found in our tears. They are all collected and everyone accounted for. They are like nard poured upon his feet. The lady in Luke who washed Jesus' feet with her tears and dried them with her hair. Have you been that despondant? I have.

His reward is with him and his recompence accompanies him.

I haven't studied Daniel thoroughly like you may have, but the Messiah being cut off, imo, is when Jesus died his physical death.

reply to post by jmdewey60
I think you're getting side-tracked.

The OP. I am claiming that the Voice is that of the angel of YHWH, aka Satan. The Angel of YHWH, aka Satan offers to Jesus to become the Old Testament Messiah, just like Solomon. Jesus rejects the offer. Therefore Jesus is not the Old Testament Messiah.

If Jesus is the Christ, than Christ must mean something different from Old Testament Messiah.

reply to post by pthena


It's him. A serious study of how he came to live inside the OT prophets, explains what John the Baptist tried to tell the people about a fire baptism.

In Isaiah, an angel takes tongs and gets a coal off the altar and touches it to Isaiah's lips to make him clean. Later propets always would just say "the Word of the Lord" came to such and such. John said that after him would come one more powerful and would baptize us with fire.

Water baptism washes the outside, holy cleansing fire cleanses the inside, so they can dwell in us. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the conception of the Messiah, and then the Son of God, Jesus, becomes the Son of Man or the man child inside us.

It is an actual birth. Paul is right in this case. Paul is right most all the time. I just disagree with him on a thing or two (like how some of us disagree.).

Alright, here is my next idea about the identity of Christ, which is his other name, the bright morning star.
This is a title but don't see a direct connection other than the connection in the various writings of the Bible between, olive trees, oil, anointing, God, lamps, and light. They are all bound together.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

The connection is found in our tears. They are all collected and everyone accounted for. They are like nard poured upon his feet. The lady in Luke who washed Jesus' feet with her tears and dried them with her hair. Have you been that despondant? I have.

I like the thing about the tears. I think that is very important but they were the tears of thankfulness, according to what I was taught.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Water baptism washes the outside, holy cleansing fire cleanses the inside, so they can dwell in us. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the conception of the Messiah, and then the Son of God, Jesus, becomes the Son of Man or the man child inside us.

You are definitely applying your mind to this.
This is probably something to consider and is an interpretation.

Here is a little bit on the star connection.

Hesiod, Theogony line 381 - line 382 (c. 700 B.C.): "tous de met' astera tikten Heôsphoron Êrigeneia astra te lampetoônta, ta t' ouranos estephanôtai." ("And after these Erigeneia bare the star Eosphorus (Dawn-bringer), and the gleaming stars with which heaven is crowned.")

Two more of El and Asherah's children were twins: Shahar and Shalim, brothers of Baal. In the Babylonian pantheon, Shahar was deemed god of the dawn, and his twin brother Shalim was god of the dusk. Shahar himself also had a son, Helel. The Babylonians believed that the planet Venus, when it appeared as a star in the morning, literally was Helel, the son of Shahar, and grandson of El. They worshipped Helel the morning star and considered him one of the more important gods. They also worshipped Shamash, the god of the sun.

I know I posted this same stuff a long time ago but it was in connection with Lucifer. Jesus says this about himself in the end of Revelation. First there is his being the branch of David, then his being the Bright Morning Star. Is there a connection between the two things?

reply to post by jmdewey60


I'm applying the teachings he gave us. He told Nicodemus we had to be born again. It's said that we put on the "mind of Christ" for a reason. Physical birth is from below, whereas a spiritual birth from God happens to our minds. Jesus said he is from above and we are from below. I guess you could say he is from heaven and we are from earth or he becomes a part of us where he can teach us compared to a normal person who is born from the womb.

In John 16 he talks of a woman who has pain when she gives birth because her time has come, but when she shes her child she rejoices and forgets her anguish. Hen then says a day will come when he won't use this type of language but will tell us clearly about his Father.

I have no idea about the morning star and I don't believe that YHVH is Satan, however, it disturbs me to know that Satan shows up at the last supper in spirit form. Just downright creepy in my book.