Jesus said, "Away from me Satan...", therefore he is not Messiah

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

I have no idea about the morning star and I don't believe that YHVH is Satan, however, it disturbs me to know that Satan shows up at the last supper in spirit form. Just downright creepy in my book.

The angel of YHWH is Satan. There are a few angels mentioned in Exodus, including an angel who bears the Name, Name bearer, therefore all you can call him is YHWH. Satan is the accuser, I suppose he is also the tempter or obstructer.

The Old Testament isn't quite as simple as Christians make it out to be. I've read the Old Testament and there is nothing in it for me as a Gentile. I'd really like to find a Christianity that has nothing whatsoever to do with the Old Testament.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
Jesus was confronted by the temple priests and asked what his authority to preach was. Jesus said his came from above while theirs came from below.
Jesus said he was the Bright Morning Star, right after saying he was the Branch of David.
I am saying that this is the possible meaning of Christ, as in the anointed ones who stood with God and were the source of light as in John 1:1, the light which was the life, became flesh. The bringer of the dawn, the first born of the stars of heaven. Seems to me to be a connection but it is all symbolism and not sure if it can be taken further.
I believe in revelation and was taught that as part of my Christian indoctrination, that at the end there would be new light. So maybe the new light is about the New Light. Don't see why not. Satan is lightning, to Jesus, a flash and then gone.
The sides of the north. Look at my avatar picture and there is the Mountain. I'm looking at Google Earth of K2 and it has these nice red lines to indicate the paths to the summit. There are two, one to the left a bit from directly North, and one slightly to the right of directly North. Funny I think, since this is known as the Throne of God. Also the avatar picture is looking from the South, you do not want to go that way and I think it should be obvious why.

reply to post by pthena


Honestly, I just don't know. He's an agent that works for God in a position where he isn't thought of too highly.Lol I totally get the Willy Wonka theme and could see why God would proove to his angels how loyal, as humans we can be.

One thing that comes to mind about Satan is in Zechariah, when Joshua is before the Lord, he looks over a Satan and says "the Lord rebuke you! the Lord who chose Jerusalem rebuke you!" - then in Revelation Jesus tells us that he disciplines and rebukes those he loves, so we are to be earnest and repent.

There may come a day Jesus would ask of us all to forgive Satan. I tend to believe the teachings on Judaism on him being an agent of God but not the God of the OT, that just doesn't click right, with my understanding. The angel of the Lord could just be the agent of the Lord. Right?

reply to post by pthena


We're not allowed to make fun of people so

reply to post by GmoS719


According to some members so is speaking about Israel

"Living Energy in matter" Seems to be, from what I have been looking at, the fundamental concept that the word Christ comes from and looks to me to go along with the verse I quoted from Galatians, and with John 1.
I could also speculate on the other thing I was talking about, which is the Bringer of the Dawn concept that Jesus uses as if it was his name, the Bright Morning Star, where if the source of life on Earth was the sun, then Jesus considered himself, in this metaphor, the herald of that life source.

ETA: just looking at this post and thinking, it should be sort of obvious that the ancients understood that there was something in oil that made it different from other substances and we hear about it every day, energy, and where to get it, pump it out of the ground, that's how we do it today but back then it was grow some oil producing plants, and later, go kill a whale.

Here is the web site I am using as my source for the claim at the beginning of the post.
betemet.com...

I never tempted anyone. You people have always been blaming me for all the bad things you've been doing.
Spreading lies about others will only increase the time you have to repent in the outer circles of hell.

-Doctor Satan

So this is what jews really believe? Watch this video and see how jews treat christians in Israel. I'm ashamed to even be seeing this. This is the kind of people that turns people away from God. You can hear the self righeous pomp in this fellows voice and the animosity and hate for christians. God's Chosen people indeed...this video makes you think that God doesnt love everyone and that he's a racist. It seems the evil men do is not beyond the jews either. Makes you wonder how many have never seen the inside of a synogogue.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Not a pretty picture.(the video)
It's hard to keep religion and politics separate as soon as the word Israel comes up.

Pastor Craig M. Lyons (the owner of the site I gave the link to) is someone who seems a bit suspicious in his views but he seems to have done a bit of research which is different from all the other sites which I have looked at, where they just repeat the exact same couple of lines that a hundred other sites quote.
The page I got linked to by Google was in the Egyptian section of his site.
Go to the bottom of that page and click on "See the Articles".
Go down about 2/3 of that page and click on
THE SOUL IN AMENTA #15

It's a hard video to watch, i can't keep from wincing everytime he says "i'm glad we killed your f*cking Jesus". I'm not saying all jews are like this but that it doesnt matter what faith you practice there's always going to be some bad eggs in the bunch, and this fellow is clearly one of them. He probably believes that jews will be the only ones that get to go to heaven as well.

reply to post by pthena


Wow. You are so confused.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

So this is what jews really believe? Watch this video and see how jews treat christians in Israel

That wasn't filmed in Israel. That was filmed in Palestine. That's Jewish settlers on Palestinian land. Without the support of Christians who hold fast to the Old Testament, and themselves believe the Jews to be "special" this wouldn't have happened. Blame Christian Zionists first, if you want to blame any one.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

There may come a day Jesus would ask of us all to forgive Satan. I tend to believe the teachings on Judaism on him being an agent of God but not the God of the OT, that just doesn't click right, with my understanding. The angel of the Lord could just be the agent of the Lord. Right?

The best I can offer at this time is the story of Jesus talking to the Samaritan woman at the well, John 4

But the problem in the days of Jesus and extending still to this day is the unwillingness to share with the other. Therefore all the more significance that Jesus revealed all to the Samaritan woman, "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks." This was after he had said, "You Samaritans worship what you do not know."

So two peoples with the same book, containing the same book-god, were unable to see themselves as one people. But the God who is spirit, and not bound in leather, can do what the "leather-bound" could never do. Bring all together in spirit and truth.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I really believe that Jesus served God the Father who exists outside the book. I'm tentatively convinced that YHWH only exists as a character in the book, hence "the leather-bound". The temptation to take up the iron scepter and rule the world came from the book.

reply to post by jmdewey60
This is the link then:
THE SOUL IN AMENTA #15
I guess I'll have to read back some to see what dates are used for "Krst/Karest/Christ" on the mummies.

Here lies the problem that we encounter today in even trying to study this out. We are hampered by prior indoctrination and conditioned by erroneous religious teaching before we ever begin our personal search for "the truth" as Christians and followers of "the Christ". We stumble at the gates of knowledge because of the radical reinterpretation of the ancient Egyptian Religion and its religious beliefs and dogmas by a later Roman Orthodoxy which then passed off upon the world counterfeit and false meanings to existing ancient religious dogmas which had maintained their integrity from nation to nation for thousands of years. These reinterpreted ancient Religious Beliefs, like those of ancient Egypt for instance, became the cornerstone of their replacement religion which we know as Christianity today. In a matter of 300 years this ancient Spiritual Wisdom had been mutilated by Rome to an almost unrecognizable level. We read it everyday in our Bibles and mistakenly approach it with a "literal-historical" approach when nothing could be further from the truth.

I wouldn't assume though that Jesus was merely a follower of an old mystery. He really strikes me as an innovator. And there was some teaching and practice of his followers before the Romans took it all over and suppressed what wasn't useful for their purposes.

reply to post by pthena
I read that earlier (what you just quoted) in the site and is why I added the disclaimer since it seems he has a bias. I am not sure where he gets his interpretation exactly, for the "living energy in matter", and assumed he has some back-up from some sort of academic study which he does not cite. Or maybe not. It is a website and not a paper presented for peer review where he lists his sources, so should be taken as such.

All that the Old Testament Promises:

To the ethnic "Chosen":

Long life, in the land, "given" by YHWH EX 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

To those already living there:

Total destruction

DT 7:1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations--the Hittites, Girga#es, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you-- 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

In the Messianic Age:

ISA 60:1 "Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.

ISA 60:2 See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the LORD rises upon you
and his glory appears over you.

ISA 60:3 Nations will come to your light,
and kings to the brightness of your dawn.

ISA 60:4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All assemble and come to you;
your sons come from afar,
and your daughters are carried on the arm.

ISA 60:5 Then you will look and be radiant,
your heart will throb and swell with joy;
the wealth on the seas will be brought to you,
to you the riches of the nations will come.

ISA 60:6 Herds of camels will cover your land,
young camels of Midian and Ephah.
And all from Sheba will come,
bearing gold and incense
and proclaiming the praise of the LORD.

ISA 60:7 All Kedar's flocks will be gathered to you,
the rams of Nebaioth will serve you;
they will be accepted as offerings on my altar,
and I will adorn my glorious temple.

ISA 60:9 Surely the islands look to me;
in the lead are the ships of Tarshish,
bringing your sons from afar,
with their silver and gold,
to the honor of the LORD your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.

ISA 60:10 "Foreigners will rebuild your walls,
and their kings will serve you.
Though in anger I struck you,
in favor I will show you compassion.

ISA 60:11 Your gates will always stand open,
they will never be shut, day or night,
so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations--
their kings led in triumphal procession.

ISA 60:12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish;
it will be utterly ruined.

ISA 61:5 Aliens will shepherd your flocks;
foreigners will work your fields and vineyards.

ISA 61:6 And you will be called priests of the LORD,
you will be named ministers of our God.
You will feed on the wealth of nations,
and in their riches you will boast.

ISA 61:7 Instead of their shame
my people will receive a double portion,
and instead of disgrace
they will rejoice in their inheritance;
and so they will inherit a double portion in their land,
and everlasting joy will be theirs.

A great big empire: with the wealth on the seas and the riches of the nations, herds of camels, gold and incense, all flowing in as imperial tribute tax. Kedar's flocks and rams of Nebaioth sacrificed on the altar.

As for the foreigners, they will do all the manual labor, the building, the flock keeping, the field and vineyard work. The kings of the nations even led around (perhaps in chains) in triumphal procession, or serving as butlers.

And the nation or kingdom that is not with the program? It will perish, and be utterly ruined.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, believe me when I say, this is all that the Old Testament is about. Glory and riches and honor and ease for the chosen ones, indentured servitude and taxes for the rest, and death to those who resist. That's it. That's all there is folks. All the rest is supporting filler.

Where does the strength come from to make this happen? The notion that this character YHWH is the one and only god of the universe, and therefore no one has any choice in the matter.

Well no! Not my idea of God! Not my idea of people! Not my idea of decent government! Just say no! This system has already had 3,000 years to work its will in the world. Let it go already! Just say: Go away Satan!

reply to post by pthena


A gentile believer of Yeshua/Jesus should read the whole Bible.
The old and new testaments are like pieces of a puzzle.You get
one piece here, another there and finally you have the finished
puzzle.

reply to post by pthena


I am a christian who holds fast to the old and new testament!
I am a believer of Yeshua Hamashiach and I am waiting for His
return.

There is an odd mention of being Christ, in John 17 where Jesus is talking about being glorified by the Father.
He is talking about someone in the third person who is named Jesus Christ, who is to be glorified.
Now that is very peculiar as a Gospel reference of Jesus talking about himself. The other one is one you (pthena) have commented on before, where a man appears to two of Jesus' disciples and explains how these things must happen to the Christ, again in the third person.
There is Peter calling Jesus Messiah but Jesus said that you said this from a mindset which is not in the ordinary, and it could mean that Peter was saying Christ but in a different understanding of the word.

Here is something that is very startling to me and the reason being is the bias to all the 20 or whatever translations of this verse from the Greek and to me the only translation that gets it right. So the startling thing is this truth or whatever that has been hidden all this time behind translations meant to convey a preconceived notion of who and what Christ is. So this is the NETBible version:
Mark 9:41
For I tell you the truth, whoever gives you a cup of water because you bear Christ’s name will never lose his reward.

So all the various translations are in fact interpretations of what this means, instead of just stating it clearly as it stands in the original text.