Police officer shot dead after pointing stun gun at man's dogs as he attended domestic dispute

For all those who insist on believing the cops are good people by nature and can do no wrong...

www.npr.org...

Note the part about police history of rape, murder, other organized crimes. One cop would rob banks on his lunch breaks...

I apologize if this was already stated, but I'd like to mention that the taser police carry look like a pistol. In the heat of an argument with some distance between people, quick motions, and someone stating " shoot the dogs" possibly followed by "with the taser" I can understand the homeowners response.
I also sympathize with the officer who may be fearful for his life with the dogs and was trying to protect himself in the line of duty.
sorry if this post is misspelled as I am writing from my phone.

Originally posted by SirTFiedSkeptic
For all those who insist on believing the cops are good people by nature and can do no wrong...

www.npr.org...

Note the part about police history of rape, murder, other organized crimes. One cop would rob banks on his lunch breaks...

The nature of cops in general has little to do with this situation. We are not looking at cops as a whole, or other instances where cops have done wrong. We are looking at this one man, who responded to an altercation and drew a stun gun on a possible threat, and for that he deserves to lose his life?

I am baffled that people can look at this situation objectively, and say they would have done the same thing. Any man who would blow another mans head off because he pointed a weapon at his dog, that if fired would have made the dog uncomfortable for a few minutes, is a sick piece of # and should not be allowed to carry a lethal weapon in the first place.

There are very few circumstances where it would be civilly and morally justified for you to take another man's life, and someone defending himself from your dog with a non-lethal weapon is not one of those circumstances.

My dog is a pom, full of courage. And willing to defend me even when faced with a threat 10 times his size. To me, this is a part of my family. I have no doubt what the effect a stun gun would have on him. Given the choice, I would choose the life of my friend of 11 years whom has stood by my side faithfully. The death of an officers who was fullfilling his duties is truely tragic. But we must also assume that to some, the choice to save what we know, versus what we dont, can be a thin line. I regret the loss of human life, and I regret the position that another human was put in to.
As a side note: You as a citizen do as little harm to a K-9 police dog as kicking it, then see what your life is worth in a court of law. It's a little lopsided when you look at it that way, eh?

Originally posted by Cobra.EXE
this is amazing. now every officer will think twice before pointing their guns or stun guns at toddlers, old women, incapacitated people, harmless animals, or puppies.

they need to realize they arent hired to shoot anything that moves in society. i mean clearly things have been getting out of hand when it comes to these pigs on powertrips.

this wont be the first incident, and it sure as hell wont be the last.

a BIG win for the people.

SERVE AND PROTECT YOU SWINE!

Originally posted by Cobra.EXE

Originally posted by Cobra.EXE
this is amazing. now every officer will think twice before pointing their guns or stun guns at toddlers, old women, incapacitated people, harmless animals, or puppies.

they need to realize they arent hired to shoot anything that moves in society. i mean clearly things have been getting out of hand when it comes to these pigs on powertrips.

this wont be the first incident, and it sure as hell wont be the last.

a BIG win for the people.

SERVE AND PROTECT YOU SWINE!

Yeah! Whoo-hoo! A BIG win!!

What the #...? In what twisted world is slaughtering one of our own a big win for the people? This guy was just doing his job. Your comment literally makes me sick to my stomach. Put your post on a letter and send it to his family and children, would that make you feel proud of your 'BIG win'?

So let me understand this,
The residence of a known and repeated individual with a history of trouble and violence is the location of a dispute call,
the cop that shows up is getting a statement from this said individual and the dogs are expressing agression toward the cop, when asked to secure the dogs, this Hitch then releases the dogs with a command to attack the cop,
the officer retreats and repeatedly asks that the dogs be restrained yet Hitch escalates the situation by becoming even more agressive and ordering the dogs to attack more,
the cop calls his chief from the interior of his vehicle, the chief arrives,
Hitch is still with the dogs and armed with a shotgun, the chief orders the dogs tasered,
when the officer draws the taser to shoot it, he is then shot and killed by Hitch?
This is what I have as an understanding of this event, this is correct?

So what I see so far is a dead cop who didnt approach this as an all out force/kill situation but as a guy who was obviously dealing with Hitch (again) in some long drawn out nonsense conversation,
I see the chief showing up dealing with Hitch (again) and neither of these cops have their weapons out,
yet Hitch has a shotgun ready to use and he uses it.

So how do you see this going any other way but bad, what were the options?

1- cops leave and allow the incident that caused the call to resume ignoring the concerns of the neighbor and basically allowing Hitch to do whatever without consequence and possibly harming the neighbor and then a law suit against the township incurs, and then what, it's whatever Hitch wants?
2- Hitch puts his dogs away and explains the situation and the incident calms down and is dealt with until the next time?
3- Either officer draws their weapon and drops Hitch where he stands?
4- Call the sheriff and or state boys and escalate it even further?
5-Ignore the call, after all it's only Hitch?

Sometimes, YES the cops are insane out of control hyped up power mad excessive goons and deserve the worst,
every cop is an individual, theyre not ALL like the way I described above.

Hitch, in this situation completely owns responsibility,
and I assure you that would it have been me in either of those uniforms and Hitch would have drawn a weapon against me, I would have ceased being the nice individual he was dealing with time after time.
Hitch would be dead.
Then I would be a goon as well I guess.

So out of the options, or even one I may have missed, how could this have gone differently, how could this have gone better?

If you claim to love your dogs then leash them and get them under control. im sure you know how...right?

people who treat dogs like weapons are the problem and totaly to blame if the dog is injured or killed. you treat them like members of your family but a dog does not have the same emotions or intelligence to return your feelings no matter how much you beleive he can just because he acts a certain way and makes you feel special because he is totaly devoted to you...NOT THE SAME THING. It is a completely one way relationship that give you great pleasure because of the (what appears to be) love the animal shows you. Dogs cannot feel love. They miss you and are happy to see you when you come home, but thats not love ITS ANIMAL INSTINCTS. They depend on you, you are the pack leader and provide for them and its only following its instincs for self preservation. Some of the comments here are laughable. Think of all the lovable pets who turn on their owners, small children and other dogs....they are animals with limited brains, emotions and can never truly love you in the sense you may even love them because they do not have the brain capacity....and no dogs dont go to heaven...why not?...because they dont beleive in our lord and saviour Jesus Christ nor go to church and would quite happily rodger their own sibblings as they often do. No im not religious btw just making a point.

anyone who says they would have done the same thing....comforting to know poochie is ok as the needle is inserted in your arm for murder and your life slowly slips away....your last thoughts being...at leat poochie is ok....come on ffs!

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter

So what I see so far is a dead cop who didnt approach this as an all out force/kill situation

He should have approached the situation from the front door, not in the dogs' yard. If course from his photo it appears he was a big boy and probably on first-name basis with the donut shops owners. Maybe just too lazy to walk around to the front door like anyone else paying a call. Being a cop doesn't automatically grant a right to trespass. And for what reason he was there? Possible traffic infraction for driving too fast down an alley?

It is a shame this officer lost his life over this. He should have left the premises as told to do. It is very doubtful he could have obtained a warrant for something as serious as a vehicle infraction. The neighbor wasn't pressing charges for an assault or anything of the sort.

Then it seemed he was going to inflict a little after-play punishment by shooting his dogs. That taser would look like a handgun and he heard an order given to "shoot the dogs". Extreme response, to be sure, but it is possible he will be found within the law for his actions. That's what's got the cop-lovers ticked-off about this.

So how do you see this going any other way but bad, what were the options?

1- cops leave and allow the incident that caused the call to resume ignoring the concerns of the neighbor and basically allowing Hitch to do whatever without consequence and possibly harming the neighbor and then a law suit against the township incurs, and then what, it's whatever Hitch wants?
2- Hitch puts his dogs away and explains the situation and the incident calms down and is dealt with until the next time?
3- Either officer draws their weapon and drops Hitch where he stands?
4- Call the sheriff and or state boys and escalate it even further?
5-Ignore the call, after all it's only Hitch?

Sometimes, YES the cops are insane out of control hyped up power mad excessive goons and deserve the worst,...

How about just going around to the front door like anyone else would be expected to do? Traipsing through the man's backyard, refusing to leave or produce a warrant, these sound like the earmarks of a of a "power mad excessive goon" you describe. They "deserve the worst" you say? Sounds like that is what he got.

If it were a serious offense they could have obtained a warrant. It was LE's decision to escalate the issue, and add a little punishment besides. Didn't quite work out the way they wanted.

It's a shame, it's a pity, but when you have law enforcement going above the law then we should ALL expect the worst.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


dig deeper into it like i did before commenting,
you'll find all your should of would of could of ideas already there.

and no i wont research it for you, or provide any info,
you want to put as much energy into research as you do comments, remember that.

donut shop.....nice!



there's 2 full time cops in the entire town , that's how small it is, they knew eachother.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

dig deeper into it like i did before commenting,
you'll find all your should of would of could of ideas already there.

I have been following this thread since the beginning, read all links that were posted, read every comment made.

and no i wont research it for you, or provide any info,

So you have nothing, nothing to add to the thread than your tear-jerk comment.

donut shop.....nice!

there's 2 full time cops in the entire town , that's how small it is, they knew each other.

That there was two of them that somehow changes the law or the constitution?

Nothing more of value or substance to add to the thread but you do have time to make a plea for pity. This is not a political campaign or a popularity contest. Your cheap emotion means diddly.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


sorry amigo,
not interested .

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
So let me understand this,
The residence of a known and repeated individual with a history of trouble and violence is the location of a dispute call,

Proof of such?

The officers first visit was to Clancy's residence, a block up the street. No source that I have found has given the location for the actual disturbance.

the cop that shows up is getting a statement from this said individual and the dogs are expressing agression toward the cop, when asked to secure the dogs, this Hitch then releases the dogs with a command to attack the cop,

Attempting to get a statement, and Hitcho told him he needed a warrant to come onto his property, which is true, since none of the exigent circumstances were met.

the officer retreats and repeatedly asks that the dogs be restrained yet Hitch escalates the situation by becoming even more agressive and ordering the dogs to attack more,

Source?

the cop calls his chief from the interior of his vehicle, the chief arrives,

Source that he called on the unit radio and not his portable?

Hitch is still with the dogs and armed with a shotgun, the chief orders the dogs tasered,

Source that he was already armed with the shotgun?

If true, the situation makes even less sense.

when the officer draws the taser to shoot it, he is then shot and killed by Hitch?

Taser was already drawn by Hitcho's account.

This is what I have as an understanding of this event, this is correct?

Not even close. The timeline we know is a page or two back. You have injected a whole lot of circumstances that are unsubstantiated to try and prove your point. We are all going off of the known facts.

So what I see so far is a dead cop who didnt approach this as an all out force/kill situation but as a guy who was obviously dealing with Hitch (again) in some long drawn out nonsense conversation,
I see the chief showing up dealing with Hitch (again) and neither of these cops have their weapons out,
yet Hitch has a shotgun ready to use and he uses it.

Again, the facts we know at this time do not match with what you are trying to portray.

So how do you see this going any other way but bad, what were the options?

Two ways. Back off and get a warrant, or back off and ignore the call.

1- cops leave and allow the incident that caused the call to resume ignoring the concerns of the neighbor and basically allowing Hitch to do whatever without consequence and possibly harming the neighbor and then a law suit against the township incurs, and then what, it's whatever Hitch wants?
2- Hitch puts his dogs away and explains the situation and the incident calms down and is dealt with until the next time?
3- Either officer draws their weapon and drops Hitch where he stands?
4- Call the sheriff and or state boys and escalate it even further?
5-Ignore the call, after all it's only Hitch?

Funny how all of your options place the Hitcho as the evil scum of the earth.

Hitch, in this situation completely owns responsibility,

I agree. It is up to us individuals to protect our rights.

and I assure you that would it have been me in either of those uniforms and Hitch would have drawn a weapon against me, I would have ceased being the nice individual he was dealing with time after time.
Hitch would be dead.

And you would have been another cop bashing story on ATS, for not following the Constitutional limits.

Then I would be a goon as well I guess.

Indeed.

So out of the options, or even one I may have missed, how could this have gone differently, how could this have gone better?

Warrant. nice and easy.

All this bickering over someone dying. IF this guy really loved his dogs he wouldn't have put them in the crossfire and tied up his dogs and dealt with the police. I would never let my animals go in any danger like that, especially knowing they can do more then just taze him and I personally don't want to add to a list of charges and see my animal put to death for protecting me.

Another in the many police and military murders yet to come, all leading up to the grand finale:

Martial law

Originally posted by topherman420
All this bickering over someone dying. IF this guy really loved his dogs he wouldn't have put them in the crossfire and tied up his dogs and dealt with the police. I would never let my animals go in any danger like that, especially knowing they can do more then just taze him and I personally don't want to add to a list of charges and see my animal put to death for protecting me.

That is perfectly logical, however this is a crime of passion, and as such, logic rarely factors in.

reply to post by HenryTwoTimes


if someone walked in my house and threatened my dogs i would wana shoot them too
cop or no cop its irrelivant
he didnt have a warrant
and deserves to be dead

# the police state western society..theres more of us lets beat them down

It's a podunk town not far from where I live,
nobody should be dead over this incident,
Lasso wasnt a nut job goon cop, and Hitch was as stable as nitro,
this is about lack of intelligence and common sense , and not on my part either,
I'm not the one dead or locked up heading for death.

I'm not into PETA or any of that kind of crap, I eat meat, wear leather, but if you threaten my dog I will defend him.

I value my dogs life over any stranger, any day.

Kinda strange that the officers CO was there at the scene and "let" the poor guy get blasted in face with a shotgun. WTF was he doing? I have dogs (two Rots and a mutt), and one of the Rotties is a Therapy Dog, I'm always worried about getting pulled over while taking him to "work" and having some gun happy LEO pulling his side-arm because my dog wants to say hi and lick 'em. That said, I wouldn't pull my own gun on the LEO, just explain to him what the dog is up to and hope the guy/girl isn't some Neo-Nazi nutcase who just want to waste my dog. However, I've had more of our local police come up and say hi to him (the dog) and be extremely friendly and interested in what he does for "a living" with kids and the old folks.

This whole situation just stinks of bad police work, or this man wouldn't be deceased and his family missing a husband, father, brother, etc. If the police come to my house, they'll see the dogs at the door and either I or they would ask that they be put up... simple as that. Now if it were some kind of crazy SWAT "kick the door in and run and gun", that's a different story.. I'd hope my dogs would attack, but I'm fairly sure they'd just run and hide in the bedroom, big babies. Two officers, one of whom being a CO, responding to a call like this should *never* have let the situation go the way it went. I'd say there needs to be a *lot* more training to be done in that town to keep the officers, citizens and canine friends safe.

Sure I'd jump a cop for pulling a gun to shoot my dog, then suffer the repercussions, but pull a gun on 'em and blow them away for it? No... that's just crazy and wrong on a lot of levels What ever happened to good old a$$ whippings? A point blank shotgun blast to the face? WTH?.
The CO should have pulled his sidearm and contained the threat, and I'm willing to bet he's running that whole ordeal through his mind multiple times a day, and will be for the rest of his life.

The point is, this should have *never* ended the way it did.