U.S. Refuses Taiwan Request for New Fighter Jets-Report

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I make this as another strategic ally stabbed in the back and kicked to the curb. Obama is utterly destroying our standing and credibility with any other nation in the world like this. Perhaps a change in Taiwan policy IS logical at this point...but how about that come as a deliberate process of careful change to a policy, not a snap decision Taiwan learns when it comes to the counter to order some more of what it's always gotten before without hassle.

Its best for Taiwan to stay with China.

Obama is utterly destroying our standing and credibility with any other nation in the world like this.

hm Obama is a puppet of the CFR agendas, just like with Rick perry, Milt Romy and the mainstream selected candidates, they arming Taiwan just in the near future they may attack china from Taiwan.

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Be an Allie of America, ... few decades down the line, you are suddnly on the Axis of Evil list , or abandoned when the crunch comes.

I wonder what kind of future S**tstorm the UK has in for it then?..
2nd

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Taiwan is a sovereign nation anyway. What right does China have to deny another nation its right to arm and defend themselves,

Well that's the point. China doesn't believe that Taiwan is a sovereign nation. It's part of China. It's theirs. So no, according to them, Taiwan has no right to arm themselves.

Taiwan has elections in January 2012. If the economy keep going down, Taiwan could very well elect the nationalists... and China vowed to invade Taiwan if the nationalists declare independence (which they probably won't do)... but last time Taiwan had elections, the Chinese army was on high alert and was ready to invade Taiwan if the nationalists won the election...

Will they invade Taiwan if the nationalists are elected in January? If I were Obama, I would make sure there's at least one US carrier near Taiwan in January... and I would send them the fighters they ask on express order before the election...take them from the US reserves if necessary...

Originally posted by PW229
These are the facts:

1: Taiwan will, at some point, return to Chinese rule. They will allow Taiwan to be self governing.
2: NATO does not have the strength for a straight up fight with China, it is unthinkable.
3: There WILL be a trade deal done with the US, the Chinese will give up North Korea and the US will give up Taiwan.

Actually, NATO does. they just dont have the stones.

ANY engagement with China will require immediate use of nukes. They have a nearly bottomless pocket from which to pull troops. They were engaged once before.

Korea?

Could have ended much sooner AND much better. Truman was a candy ass.

Originally posted by felonius
Actually, NATO does. they just dont have the stones.

ANY engagement with China will require immediate use of nukes. They have a nearly bottomless pocket from which to pull troops. They were engaged once before.

Korea?

Could have ended much sooner AND much better. Truman was a candy ass.

I'm speaking purely in the conventional arena. The use of nukes changes the ball game but it would be a completely suicidal battle planner that would even consider the use of low yield tacticals. Mutually Assured Destruction and all that.

Korea? Well it would be a bloody nose for NATO but certainly doable if the Chinese stay out of the picture. The Russians just aren't interested, they'll rattle their sabre in the UN but otherwise will stay well out of it.

As soon as it is found out America or Britain uses any nuclear or chemical weapon in ANY form or size. Bye bye country.

One will be posted to their door step..

i say instead sell them a few dozen f22s , f35s , a10, and a crap load of exocet missiles yes i know they are from france or belgium but they going to need anti ship ability when china does decide to invade.

Taiwan has the tech, industry and money to build its own if it really wants a fighter superior to anything the PRC has.

In fact, in 1982, Ronald Reagan cut off F-16 sales to Taiwan. Taiwan in reponse developed its own home built fighters. I am positive Taiwan can do it again if they need to.

reply to post by JennaDarling


That would be difficult considering neither the US nor the UK possesses any chemical weapons.

Originally posted by SirMike
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

That would be difficult considering neither the US nor the UK possesses any chemical weapons.

That is what they say, but they DO do chemical and biological RESEARCH.

reply to post by felonius


It wont every get to nukes. China will need to do three things in order to successfully invade Taiwan.

1. Mount a large scale amphibious invasion without relying on the use of Taiwanese deepwater ports. They don’t have this capability yet, might in a few years,
2. Supply that expeditionary force without relying on the use of Taiwanese deepwater ports. They are further away from that goal then #1.
3. Protect their supply chain and reinforcements. This will require complete dominance of the sea, air and underwater. That explains their development of carrier killing weapons to keep the US navy carriers far enough away to defang them. But there’s always the submarine fleet to deal with.
4. Protect their home ports.

I don’t think anyone thinks they are capable of doing all four simultaneously and won’t be for at least a decade.

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Originally posted by SirMike
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

That would be difficult considering neither the US nor the UK possesses any chemical weapons.

That is what they say, but they DO do chemical and biological RESEARCH.

I have personally been involved in the disposal efforts at Newport AAP, so yes I can conclusively say that the stockpiles are gone. As for R&D, its completely prudent to work on defense against chemical and biolgical agents.

reply to post by SirMike


As of last year we had only destroyed 75% of our 30,000+ tons chemical weapons arsenal.

Current estimates put us at failing to meet the April 2012 deadline for complete destruction of the arsenal.

taiwan standing agianst the worlds largest army and air force?

yeah wouldnt want to take that suckers bet china would win hands down.

more ways to win a war than fighting sun tzu comes to mind hell china has taken over the us without ever firing a shot.

reply to post by neo96


China has the largest army at 2.2 million, but the US hands down has more airpower than China, Russia, and India combined.

We have over 4 times the airpower that China possesses.

To add, over 2/3 of China's air force are J-7s, Q-5s and J-8s, all 1960s era combat aircraft. Their total number of combat aircraft is around 1200.

To compare, the US operates 1245 F-16s.

quick history lesson, taiwan is where the chinese loyal to the old regime fled and set up a working governmental resitance to the red "communist" chinese.

This is why they are called breakaway, they have the means to run their own island and we have sold weapons to them. now red china is our largest financier, and producer of goods. we anger china anymore and our funding is cut off.

this is purely economical, we now can be bullied by economics.

we have lost the war to china, before it even started. its a cyber/economic war. we cannot hope to defeat them in all out war as well, without deploying nukes or a full scale invasion.

in order for us to go to war with china, we need to be provoked like a pearl harbor/9-11

do the math, even with awesome technology, a guarenteed win would come from our wmd's only.

we could not hope to outfight a landwar with 2.2 million, unless we recall all troops home, and then send em all over to china via taiwan. then try to land them safely on chinese mainland soil. It would be the beaches of normandy again.

reply to post by matthewgraybeal


When talking about numbers in terms of manpower in regards to China Vs. the US, people tend to forget machines.

Within ten to twenty years, the number of robotic assets fielded by the US will render China's manpower advantage moot.

In terms of firepower, the US is on track to have the largest army on earth, but most of it won't be human.

Way to stick to another trusted ally? China just did work-ups with its new aircraft carrier, and this piece of hardware will probably be used in the event Taiwan tries to break away and declare formal independence from the mainland? Moreover, this ship will be used in the event hostilities breakout over the South China Sea. There are also allegations of the Chinese peeking at the downed stealth helicopter in Pakistan, and Pakistan claims to be a US ally? That is the most recent affront, and China has been quite busy lately. They have committed provocations against regional neighbors, threatened the world with economic warfare with its largest trading partner, and have resorted to other disturbing trends.

Taiwan requests advanced F-16s and the US refuses? But that last arms shipment was okay months ago, but not now? President Obama is stumping in the Midwest this week about jobs, and this weapons deal would bring about more defense contracts and jobs. If China wants to continue throwing its weight around? It is about time the US does the same. China has steadily increased their defense budget every year, and that spells to me that they are gearing up for confrontation.

There is a cold war a brewing, and the politicians better start reading the tea leaves. China has already begun preparations, and the US seems to be withdrawing. It is time to draw a line in the sand, and make China put its money where its mouth is. The saber rattling has gone on long enough. A fight between the two powers would be disastrous, but it seems almost inevitable. The Chinese are quite clever foxes, and have used cunning and ruthless intellect to get this far. The politicians had ought to start doing their homework on China, and acting accordingly.

Taiwan is an ally and trading partner to the United States, and to refuse this sales is just plain irresponsible given the ever growing tension between China and the US. Reunification of the mainland is inevitable, but it should be done through diplomacy, mutual cooperation, and respect between the ROC and PRC. Threats of force, attacks, and good old fashioned strong arming is definitely not a good course of action. We saw smooth transitions in Hong Kong and Macau, and Taiwan could be the same.

If this aggressive behavior continues it will leave Taiwan with no other choice but to stubbornly oppose reunification with the mainland. In that event, there will be nothing left of the island but smoldered ruins. It could also lead to a global conflict? This is a difficult matter, and has been for the past 60 or so years. Still, the US should have fulfilled the request by Taiwan. It is about time to start testing the words and rhetoric of the Chinese, because they are about ready to start testing the US.

1. Taiwan is a soveriegn country, fully FREE for its own sovereign people to decide on their national defense needs, free to buy or not buy arms from anyone who wish to sell, and need no one else to decide their fate.

2. Are smaller nations, INCLUDING US, to seek PERMISSION from China on what they can or cannot do everytime China makes some noise?

3. NO one pointed a gun at China's CCP gov to purchase US bonds. They wanted a piece of the action and acted on their own free will. Thus they are FULLY RESONSIBLE for their own decisions with the loss or gain of such bonds as gamblers do.

US owes far more to its own citizens than the pathetic $1 trillion China holds, and the US gov is fully responsible to american citizens, than to be BULLIED OR THREATENED by the CCP gov, or bow to them. Middle finger up to them instead.

4. Let the bully CCP gov makes the first move if it wants war. It's own citizens are only waiting for it to happen, cos when the military looks the other way, the oppressed citizens will be free to topple the brutal and corrupt CCP gov. Furthermore, when push comes to shove with China, many in the army have families and relatives too, and would not be too keen to point their barrels to each other for the majority of divisions.

5. What kind of human would you want to be? :-

A human that courageously stands up to tyranny? or...

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..bow to tyrants such as this?

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