Does Military/Government insider testimony on the reality of UFOs constitute as proof to you ?

reply to post by skyjohn


I feel he is able to do this because taking him out when he just released info on them would be practically confirming his info. If someone were to release a huge secret about the government and ended up dead the next day a lot of people would connect that and think it must have been true if they killed him off. I feel that's why many of these people don't end up dead. Also they know they have most of the population brain washed so they will just pass it by and think these high ranking officials are just crazy. That's my take on it.

reply to post by ArMaP


Yes
I agree and believe that is covered under the time to no longer over simplify.

It was a break point for myself and many others when people in the field finally decided that UFOs are REAL and therefore all things that follow are too complex if there is doubt.

Since that time researchers in the field who did not operate from the assumption that there was already enough proof that UFOs were alien were chastised and called all sorts of names

reply to post by anumohi

Like the airforce photo lab technician that was witnessing bases on the moon???

I'm not familiar with that example but wait, there is this "testimony" from the disclosure show.
You don't mean this do you? She doesn't say any such thing. All she has is hearsay.

She does seem to enjoy the applause though.

For me it is not enough to stop at vetting a persons credibility but to also explore if there could be a misidentification and or outside feeding after an event.

I myself many years ago attended a conference and had many people attempting to put words in my mouth and to steer my views of what I had seen.

That taught me to not offer any explanations to people that I spoke with after and just simply listen to what they described.

Originally posted by 1questioner
reply to post by CrashRetrieval

 

I have been researching the UFO phenomenon for many years. After reading and hearing from military pilots, military radar operators, all types of military personnel from Generals to security people, from civilian pilots, civilian radar operators and astronauts to local police, I believe we have been and are currently being visited by extraterrestrial intelligent beings. To dismiss all the reports and statements of the above mentioned individuals as liars, hoaxers, or individuals unable to distinguish fantasy from reality, is in my opinion a condemnation of the human race. If we can't trust these people to be telling us the truth, who can we trust?

A simple and brilliant post. Who can you trust? After a similar contextual number of years of sincere interest, I understand full well that when it all comes down to "trust", there is no knowledge present to prevent such a convention as "trust". Do not think of this as condemning my friend. Think of this as rule one of survival itself.

Remember, no matter how intelligent, no matter how well trained, when confronted with something that so jars our central perspective, our natural reaction is to mentally "fill in the blanks". Why? Because our supreme function in mission is to survive. That is law one and our status is maintained by such. The mind will literally formulate perceptive, contextualized reality to keep from making itself vulnerable to an attack or perceived state of confusion that would render it imminently threatened.

When the aliens come and speak with you directly you will no longer need the convention of trust. Until then, enjoy the entertainment and trust NO ONE. This is the only logical stance an honest man can take when considering an interest where trust is a mandate and not a ready commodity.

Be aware that there are species however that will chase their tails until they fall over in their tracks from exhaustion. Who has condemned their humanity? All we have is survival friend.

Originally posted by venatorX

Originally posted by 1questioner
reply to post by CrashRetrieval

 

I have been researching the UFO phenomenon for many years. After reading and hearing from military pilots, military radar operators, all types of military personnel from Generals to security people, from civilian pilots, civilian radar operators and astronauts to local police, I believe we have been and are currently being visited by extraterrestrial intelligent beings. To dismiss all the reports and statements of the above mentioned individuals as liars, hoaxers, or individuals unable to distinguish fantasy from reality, is in my opinion a condemnation of the human race. If we can't trust these people to be telling us the truth, who can we trust?

A simple and brilliant post. Who can you trust? After a similar contextual number of years of sincere interest, I understand full well that when it all comes down to "trust", there is no knowledge present to prevent such a convention as "trust". Do not think of this as condemning my friend. Think of this as rule one of survival itself.

Remember, no matter how intelligent, no matter how well trained, when confronted with something that so jars our central perspective, our natural reaction is to mentally "fill in the blanks". Why? Because our supreme function in mission is to survive. That is law one and our status is maintained by such. The mind will literally formulate perceptive, contextualized reality to keep from making itself vulnerable to an attack or perceived state of confusion that would render it imminently threatened.

When the aliens come and speak with you directly you will no longer need the convention of trust. Until then, enjoy the entertainment and trust NO ONE. This is the only logical stance an honest man can take when considering an interest where trust is a mandate and not a ready commodity.

Be aware that there are species however that will chase their tails until they fall over in their tracks from exhaustion. Who has condemned their humanity? All we have is survival friend.

edit on 12-8-2011 by venatorX because: (no reason given)

I take it further than that.

I see little reason why I would trust something from another realm any more than a fellow human.

I have been told that that is a bad attitude but I see it as bowing to nothing outside myself.

That does not mean I am all powerful nor faultless for I am human

reply to post by skyjohn


hey John, good comment,
I think being connected to any military force opens you up to be looked at in a differant light,
1: highly trained observer... able to recognise & react!!
2:d Disinfo ??
plz exuse spellin bin drinkin

Originally posted by Blue Shift
It isn't worth anything without the accompanying photo, memo, piece of metal, or whatever.

In the military, they used to call it "scuttlebutt." Wild rumors about crazy stuff happening, spreading through the ranks, with nothing to support it. And upper level military types aren't immune to it.

Unless they got the goods, all they have is an unverified opinion.

They still call it "scuttlebutt" and that's what these folks use. Until a spaceship lands and the occupants step out, we will never know the truth. A photo can be faked and witnesses can lie.

That said, I work for a 3 letter government agency and we've been in constant communication with the High Commander of the InterGalactic Empire....Wow, it is pretty easy to lie about Aliens! Seriously though, we are in constant communication....Ooooo, dis-dis-info.

When I was in the service, we were briefed about the nature of intelligence, they called "bits and pieces". The intelligence community analysts take those and put the puzzle together, to form a picture for them.
It seems to me, like ufologists want a military officer to walk out on the Exopolitics holding hands with a Grey EBEN.
I had something happen to me in the service, ufo related, but it doesn't give the agendized ufologists, what they WANT. It just a bit. Have all kinds of hard documentation on it too, but it's more like a scary conspiracy story, than an answer to Cosmic Questions.
It was traumatic, too. By the way. Actually, my life was on the line.
So, over the years, the reactions to me by ufologists, has been, everything ranging from silence, to dismissive, to warning off. A couple days ago, I asked a friend one, "All this time later, what do you make of my past, presently." He said I need to get over it, and move on, along with an insult thats too involved to explain here and now.

No mans testimony constitutes proof in any way, shape, or form, regardless of how high up the chain he is, or how highly respected a man he is. They could still quite possibly be lying.

For me it depends upon the witness.

Take Rendelsham for example. The story changed numerous times, and certain aspects of it don't seem to hold up to logic. It seems there's enough to say that something happened and that at least some who witnessed it cannot honestly explain what that was. But at least one of them has also repeatedly changed his story, and in my opinion has embellished and dramatized it to an enormous degree in a conflicting, unsupportable manner. So in that instance I would at least regard the testimony as dubious or in doubt.

Those promulgating the MJ-12 papers and the mythology surrounding it are also dubious in my opinion. One of them (William "Bill" Moore) even admitted disseminating disinformation. He claimed it was at the behest of a real secret cabal but can I place faith in anything he says after such an admission? Not in my opinion, no. And by extention, people like Richard C. Doty who were involved in all of that (the Aviary, etc.) thus become questionable to me as well.

On the other hand, someone like Edward J. Ruppelt who seems to have consistently tried his best to bring scientific legitimacy to the study of UFO phenomena, and in later years seemed frustrated and jaded as a result of personal inquiries into claims of alien abduction with all of the uncertainty and lack of scientific rigor inherent therein, seems more credible to me.

I’m an open-minded skeptic, so for me the people who are rigorous, and take a “just the facts” approach, but are credible individuals of credible position, and are consistent in their testimony over extended periods of time, are more credible to me than others.

Those who are inconsistent, change their story, are evasive, provide fantastical claims that are inconsistent with the majority of other credible testimony, or have zero evidence, are not credible to me.

I keep an open mind, but remain skeptical. As such, thus far I have seen/heard/read what I can consider evidence of something other than the concensus mainstream reality, but not absolute proof, and certainly not proof of extraterrestrial visitation. I think we can safely say something is happening. But what?

Originally posted by simone50m
When I was in the service, we were briefed about the nature of intelligence, they called "bits and pieces". The intelligence community analysts take those and put the puzzle together, to form a picture for them.
It seems to me, like ufologists want a military officer to walk out on the Exopolitics holding hands with a Grey EBEN.
I had something happen to me in the service, ufo related, but it doesn't give the agendized ufologists, what they WANT. It just a bit. Have all kinds of hard documentation on it too, but it's more like a scary conspiracy story, than an answer to Cosmic Questions.
It was traumatic, too. By the way. Actually, my life was on the line.
So, over the years, the reactions to me by ufologists, has been, everything ranging from silence, to dismissive, to warning off. A couple days ago, I asked a friend one, "All this time later, what do you make of my past, presently." He said I need to get over it, and move on, along with an insult thats too involved to explain here and now.

edit on 12-8-2011 by simone50m because: edit

Have you posted your experiences on the site here somewhere?

I would be interested in reading them if you did

reply to post by smallcheese


Thanks cheese. I have --never-- posted my story here on ATS. I'm afraid that people will immediately ask me to put up pictures of documents, my DD214 and stuff, and I do not own printer/scanner/copier/faxer equipment, just only my humble lil interwebs box. (I really need to upgrade. My -excuse- is, I'm waiting for the hot humid weather to subside.)

The incident/experience is no soundbite, to say the very very least. Actually, I began telling my stories, and was going to put such in the Stories forum, from like a thirdhand account, so as to not come out like, "Here is what happened to me all you Skeptics, have at it." I made the mistake of sorta.....doing that over on a forum/website which presents as ufos/paranormal, but all the members/regulars are a -gang- of aggressive debunkers. They ganged up on me, and shredded at me and made threats, which caused me to react/become physically ill, because I live with ptsd like symptoms already. Maybe I'll proceed with my Story Forum idea, and see what people's reaction is, then.
Lastly, It is difficult to establish to everyone, that I'm not pushing a big disclosure truth, a smoking gun, and I especially don't have what they "WANT". All I have is a "bit" of the big puzzle, and I don't know even, how much of a good contribution it even is.

I believe "proof" like art is in the eye of the beholder. Some physicists say that we live in a holographic universe. That everything is made out of waves and not particles. In other words, the computers we are using right now are not real and a semantical argument could be made to "prove" your computer is real.

Can we really "prove" beyond a shadow of doubt anything?

As far as the UFO phenomenon is concerned, my feeling is that those who choose to ignore or dismiss the reality entirely are missing one of the great opportunities of history. It's my opinion, that it's time for us to reevaluate all our history, science and institutions. It's time for us to truly find out who we are and what our real place in this universe is. Personally, I believe this is a great time to be alive and bear witness to the events around us and start answering any number of nagging questions that our current science, history and institutions have not been able to answer satisfactorily.

Originally posted by simone50m
reply to post by smallcheese

 

Thanks cheese. I have --never-- posted my story here on ATS. I'm afraid that people will immediately ask me to put up pictures of documents, my DD214 and stuff, and I do not own printer/scanner/copier/faxer equipment, just only my humble lil interwebs box. (I really need to upgrade. My -excuse- is, I'm waiting for the hot humid weather to subside.)

The incident/experience is no soundbite, to say the very very least. Actually, I began telling my stories, and was going to put such in the Stories forum, from like a thirdhand account, so as to not come out like, "Here is what happened to me all you Skeptics, have at it." I made the mistake of sorta.....doing that over on a forum/website which presents as ufos/paranormal, but all the members/regulars are a -gang- of aggressive debunkers. They ganged up on me, and shredded at me and made threats, which caused me to react/become physically ill, because I live with ptsd like symptoms already. Maybe I'll proceed with my Story Forum idea, and see what people's reaction is, then.
Lastly, It is difficult to establish to everyone, that I'm not pushing a big disclosure truth, a smoking gun, and I especially don't have what they "WANT". All I have is a "bit" of the big puzzle, and I don't know even, how much of a good contribution it even is.

I appreciate the response as I was wondering if I was invisible being new for a certain period

I have learned to sadly accept that the word debunk has taken on a negative term because as a researcher that is what we did

Gangs are gangs and that never works for any benefit no matter what the purpoe

I am a critical thinker and form my own conclusions from personal study and please try to understand the other side of the coin for skeptics when a UFO religion group gets on a full attack if you point out basic errors that can offer other explanations for some events.

I have seen what you have gone through and can empathize from both sides of the fence

I look forward to your sharing in the future

reply to post by smallcheese

I have seen what you have gone through and can empathize from both sides of the fence

Empathy makes you a Big cheese with me. There is not enough empathy out there, but meanness and callousness are in spades. Thats why this world is the way it is.

I need to make an error correction. When I said I started telling my stories,

reply to post by simone50m


If you get around to posting it I'd be interested in reading it as well. If not feel free to PM it.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by gortex

 

Yes. Tehran is in interesting case.
But it is not insider information. It is not "disclosure".

I really wonder whether they were chasing a SR-71 or Soviet version of the same.

In my mind,ufo's are part of a massive mind control experiment,in much the same way as the hippie movement of the 1960's,and the punk rock thing in the 1980's.The nazis invented ufo's,and then had them piloted by clones .Have you noticed how the "greys" look like fetal humans?Also the nazis were heavily into the occult,and used wacko satanic rites to give these clones conciousness.If they convince people that we are being invaded by aliens,then many would make a collective poo in their pants,and beg for the chance to be an army of bootlick yes men (and women ) to the powers that be.Ever heard of project paperclip?BAHGOOFUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When it comes to aliens no amount of testimony will ever suffice, unless it's an official statement directly from the Government. Even then, if the Government doesn't provide any solid evidence many people will simply refuse to believe it. Phage claims they never provide evidence but in some cases they provide lots of evidence such as radar logs, official voice recordings, military logs, photographs, chemical reports, lie detection results, and on and on. But whether they do or don't provide any type of evidence to back up their claims isn't the point of this discussion. This discussion is clearly about the power of their testimony alone. The testimony of official Government and military figures. Of course they are just people, but they are often people in positions that give them access to classified materials and top secret levels of access. We are talking about some seriously high ranking people here. To pass it off as "scuttlebutt" is disrespectful and absurd. Have a good day sheeple.