For black Britons, this is not the 80s revisited. It's worse

Source Article

So here it is.

By us having a resurgent right-wing in Europe and the UK, we are seeing the usual intolerance of difference, a vast increase in unfairness and the wealth gap, and most importantly, an insidious disenfranchisement of any social group outside of White, Christian-like, and wealthy.

Black Britons, especially those living in central urban areas, are one of the most alienated and under-represented groups in the UK. They get fed the line that we live in a multi-cultural country, with equal opportunities and rights for all.

For once, I'm in complete agreement with my right-wing nutter friends. Multiculturalism has failed. However, not because multiculturalism is WRONG, but because the political idiots from all sides have actively encouraged it not to work. They have too much to lose from being part of a plural, open and civilized society - they rely on partisan tribal mechanisms, and the corrupt for profit monetary system.

The recent riots in the UK were a classic symptom of the rot that has set in with modern countries the world over. Social exclusion, any form of 'caste-based' thinking, and most importantly, wealth differentials created by the corrupt for-profit monetary system, all create aberrant human behaviour.

We need to shake off this damaging way of thinking before the world experiences one huge riot. Dealing with the second-class citizen status of most Black people in the UK could be one smaller-scale way of starting to deal with a massive human issue.

The Revenant.

That and there is groups of people who do not want to "fit in", they just want it their own way.

You cannot live in another country and not try to "fit in", that just does not work... I have lived around the world, and I see the same thing, when American's go to Europe, they do not try to "fit in", they instead act like big arrogant rsholes. The same is for some minorities too in other countries, and the UK.

Even with all the available help to fit in, lanugage lessons, education, and social support, some just choose to remain outcasts.

Having lived around the world, I have stepped in the shoes of being a "minority" as it where, it is much better if you try to "fit in" and adapt to the culture you are trying to live with.

It is apalling to hear stories around Europe with the native population being attacked by minorities, you will not get any better help from the community and local governemnts than you ever will in any Northern European country, their support and equality is some of the best in the world, yet the minorities abuse that. That is exactly why the murders happened in Norway. You will not get any better in the world than Norway the countries like it will treat you, fairly, openly,welcoming, generious, equally, but for some people, that is not enough. They just want to make trouble, and on that sad day, a native decided to act back. Unfortunate but it was brewing for years, and it will happen again. Unfortunately as the local native population just have had enough of their generiosity being ABUSED, pure and simple.

Yes
The majority must always fit in with the minority.

What a joke.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to have a debate on these issues at the moment. Any attempt to try and look at this from any other perspective, invites accusations of condoning the rioting behavior. For that reason, I will wait until emotions have died down, before I put my thoughts forward.

reply to post by The Revenant


You're confusing me here.

You're talking about multiculturalism, but your thread is focusing on black Britons ?

''Black British'' is not a culture. Black people in the UK are from dozens of different cultures, but most have predominantly adopted - and influenced - the pre-existing social culture and subcultures in the UK. In most cases, the only difference between a black person and a white person of the same socio-economic background is their race.

The majority of the rioters are from the urban and inner-city areas, where there's a higher proportion of black people living. I don't see this as a racial issue - more of a class and wealth issue.

But these riots are in no way an indictment on multiculturalism, as the only culture clash involved was between different socio-economic subcultures which have always existed.

Even with all the available help to fit in, lanugage lessons, education, and social support, some just choose to remain outcasts.

I think you're missing my point here...

Any person that is considered an 'outcast' is by the very definition of the word, someone that has been 'cast out'. This is precisely the problem - nobody should be cast out, we should all celebrate our differences, and learn to accommodate each other.

I don't live in a nation called the United Kingdom... I live on a set of islands historically referred to as the United Kingdom. I'm more than happy for people of all creeds and colours to settle here - within logical and sensible restraints suggested by stable management of resources per head.

In my world there is no 'them' and 'us'. We're all human, on our home, Earth.

The article above suggests that the Black community in Britain has been cast out, when they all have just as much right to be here as I have. This is the problem - and most people are ignoring it. Hence the article.

The Revenant.

Originally posted by The Revenant

Even with all the available help to fit in, lanugage lessons, education, and social support, some just choose to remain outcasts.

I think you're missing my point here...

Any person that is considered an 'outcast' is by the very definition of the word, someone that has been 'cast out'. This is precisely the problem - nobody should be cast out, we should all celebrate our differences, and learn to accommodate each other.

I don't live in a nation called the United Kingdom... I live on a set of islands historically referred to as the United Kingdom. I'm more than happy for people of all creeds and colours to settle here - within logical and sensible restraints suggested by stable management of resources per head.

In my world there is no 'them' and 'us'. We're all human, on our home, Earth.

The article above suggests that the Black community in Britain has been cast out, when they all have just as much right to be here as I have. This is the problem - and most people are ignoring it. Hence the article.

The Revenant.

No I dont mean we cast them out, I mean they "isolate" themselves intheir own little community world and shut out any help by themselves. Not by the people around them.

Alot of this is "self inflicted" on themselves.

I have been in the shoes of a "minority" (not skin colour but a minority none the less) and I know what it is like.

Multiculturalism reminds me of the saying

Migrate
Mutate,
or
Die

Simply, if you migrate to another culture and you don’t mutate then you will die

You can’t and should not expect an entire culture to change and embrace your culture. If you don’t like the English culture, American culture, Canadian culture or African culture etc.. then don’t migrate to that culture.
If you are in the minority of the culture, adapt or get the heck out
Tolerance is necessary but has its limits.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
reply to post by The Revenant

 

You're confusing me here.

You're talking about multiculturalism, but your thread is focusing on black Britons ?

''Black British'' is not a culture.

I'm afraid I disagree. To be 'black' and 'british' carries with it it's own identity, despite attempts on a varied basis to subsume this identity within the greater national cultural identity. Yes, there are lots of different variations and elements of this identity, but to be black and british means you're automatically going to be more vulernable to stop and search powers for example.

That in and by itself would create a 'black & british' identity.

The Revenant.

Originally posted by The Revenant

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
reply to post by The Revenant

 

You're confusing me here.

You're talking about multiculturalism, but your thread is focusing on black Britons ?

''Black British'' is not a culture.

I'm afraid I disagree. To be 'black' and 'british' carries with it it's own identity, despite attempts on a varied basis to subsume this identity within the greater national cultural identity. Yes, there are lots of different variations and elements of this identity, but to be black and british means you're automatically going to be more vulernable to stop and search powers for example.

That in and by itself would create a 'black & british' identity.

The Revenant.

The same could be said of Irish or people from Northern Ireland in the Mainland Uk.

Originally posted by JennaDarling
No I dont mean we cast them out, I mean they "isolate" themselves intheir own little community world and shut out any help by themselves. Not by the people around them.

Alot of this is "self inflicted" on themselves.

I have been in the shoes of a "minority" (not skin colour but a minority none the less) and I know what it is like.

Again, I disagree - I often find folks of the 'black' persuasion to be vivacious, outgoing and super friendly. That doesn't make me think that they isolate themselves... far from it. They're almost hungry to make friends and network because they are cast out by my fellow white folks.

No, I think the view you describe is exactly the problem - the 'them and us' view.

The Revenant.

Originally posted by JennaDarling
The same could be said of Irish or people from Northern Ireland in the Mainland Uk.

Yes I totally agree - being of Northern Irish descent I know exactly what you mean )

The Revenant.

Originally posted by The Revenant

Originally posted by JennaDarling
No I dont mean we cast them out, I mean they "isolate" themselves intheir own little community world and shut out any help by themselves. Not by the people around them.

Alot of this is "self inflicted" on themselves.

I have been in the shoes of a "minority" (not skin colour but a minority none the less) and I know what it is like.

Again, I disagree - I often find folks of the 'black' persuasion to be vivacious, outgoing and super friendly. That doesn't make me think that they isolate themselves... far from it. They're almost hungry to make friends and network because they are cast out by my fellow white folks.

No, I think the view you describe is exactly the problem - the 'them and us' view.

The Revenant.

I don't view it as them and Us, I view everybody as themselves. If they (as a person) want to go around acting the victim, go ahead. Meanwhile, the rest of the "people" that surround me, carry on.

If you ever lived in other countries you would know exactly what it is like. If you do not try to adapt to the culture you are living in, you will be casting yourself out, you will have no friends, you will not have stable jobs, you will be basically hard to employ. Essentially you made yourself a problem.

However, once you start to learn the language, understand the culture, you will understand exactly why it is the way it is and you will infact start to actually like it and enjoy it.

If you go against that, then it will be nothing but hurt all the way.

You would have effectively isolated yourself , if you did that in your own country, you would get the same result, isolation. You would have no friends, no work, nothing but misery.

Nobody will want to know you, becuse you are not fun, no are nothing but trouble, misery , depresion. Who wants that surrounding them?

It is the same everywhere, it is called LIFE and having a SOCIAL life.

Got to agree with woody, all a bit emotionally charged at the moment and now probably isn't the best time to have these discussions.

One thing I will throw into the mix is that it certainly isn't all as clear cut as many may think.

I know lot's of British Blacks of Afro-Carribean descent who are very concerned about the recent immigrants from Africa, especially Somalia and Eastern Africa, and their complete lack of respect for law and order or anything else.

Originally posted by JennaDarling
If you ever lived in other countries you would know exactly what it is like. If you do not try to adapt to the culture you are living in, you will be casting yourself out, you will have no friends, you will not have stable jobs, you will be basically hard to employ. Essentially you made yourself a problem.

The same can be said of neighbourhoods. Different areas within a town will have totally different cultures. Just because someone says they have a different nationality or ethnic source means that we treat them differently to someone who hails from the other side of town... why is that? And is it fair?

We automatically accept a fellow townsman (or woman) but not a foreigner or someone of significantly different ethnic source. Why is that? I love the quirks and differences of someone from a totally alien culture - as long as mutual respect is maintained, the relationship is only ever positive.

The Revenant.

Originally posted by The Revenant

Originally posted by JennaDarling
If you ever lived in other countries you would know exactly what it is like. If you do not try to adapt to the culture you are living in, you will be casting yourself out, you will have no friends, you will not have stable jobs, you will be basically hard to employ. Essentially you made yourself a problem.

The same can be said of neighbourhoods. Different areas within a town will have totally different cultures. Just because someone says they have a different nationality or ethnic source means that we treat them differently to someone who hails from the other side of town... why is that? And is it fair?

We automatically accept a fellow townsman (or woman) but not a foreigner or someone of significantly different ethnic source. Why is that? I love the quirks and differences of someone from a totally alien culture - as long as mutual respect is maintained, the relationship is only ever positive.

The Revenant.

Nobody asks them their nationality or what not, people just talk to people, for other NORMAL reasons, it is them that raise the issue of the "race card" or the "colour card". Again, some people try to make themselves feel important by acting a victim.

Go about having a normal life like normal people like everybody else, that requires fitting in. Where is the problem in that?

reply to post by The Revenant

I agree about the resurgent right and intolerance. However, minorities do themselves no favours either when they
choose to remain segregated. That just gives those with intolerant views plenty of ammunition. We also have a problem with PC folks who never seem to blame a person for being an idiot! You do not have to be any particular colour or religion to be a moron but PC people will always try and excuse their behaviour.

The current economic problems have affected everyone so why do the recent rioters (predominantly black) use that as an excuse? Where are the asian rioters or chinese rioters or glaswegian rioters? I say Glaswegian because I live up here and there are areas MORE deprived than those in London but they are almost 100% white.

There are an awful lot of indiginous (majority white if you will) people in the UK (well up here) who are getting very very tired of the same old moans, always blaming somebody else for their problems.

What especially winds people up is when immigrants want to change this country into a mini version of where they came from and when PC people want us to change to accommodate them for example renaming "Christmas" to "holiday season". Even atheists got annoyed about that!

So we have a lot of resentment, a lot of anger and an awful lot of people just waiting for excuse to join the BNP, those black rioters in London with their b...# excuses have pushed them even closer. It's time for the leaders of minority communities to draw a line between genuine grievances with valid protests and inexcusable outright moronic gang led criminal behaviour.

Originally posted by JennaDarling
Nobody asks them their nationality or what not, people just talk to people, for other NORMAL reasons, it is them that raise the issue of the "race card" or the "colour card". Again, some people try to make themselves feel important by acting a victim.

Really? In my experiences if someone looks or sounds different, one of the first things people ask is "Where are you from?"

Why would someone bring up the race card or the colour card unless they were feeling victimized? And who are we to judge whether or not someone is being victimized or not? Yes, some people try and make themselves feel important by a variety of means, but that's usually to do with personality problems rather than it being a cultural trait of any given minority. It's almost like your'e suggesting that there is a 'group-think-brain' behind the cultural identity of any given minority that comes up with a plan to further that minorities cultural influence and conversion rate.

You've also used the magic word, "them", to sum up a LARGE demographic there.... I'm just sayin'.

The Revenant.

Originally posted by The Revenant

Originally posted by JennaDarling
Nobody asks them their nationality or what not, people just talk to people, for other NORMAL reasons, it is them that raise the issue of the "race card" or the "colour card". Again, some people try to make themselves feel important by acting a victim.

Really? In my experiences if someone looks or sounds different, one of the first things people ask is "Where are you from?"

Why would someone bring up the race card or the colour card unless they were feeling victimized? And who are we to judge whether or not someone is being victimized or not? Yes, some people try and make themselves feel important by a variety of means, but that's usually to do with personality problems rather than it being a cultural trait of any given minority. It's almost like your'e suggesting that there is a 'group-think-brain' behind the cultural identity of any given minority that comes up with a plan to further that minorities cultural influence and conversion rate.

You've also used the magic word, "them", to sum up a LARGE demographic there.... I'm just sayin'.

The Revenant.

When you travel abroad, have a different accent etc or do not speak the language, ofcourse people ask where you are from, not out of hatred, it is out of CURIOSITY and to GET TO KNOW YOU. That is called being friendly and sociable.

I feel quite comfortable when people take interest in me when I travel, I should be more concerned when people don't want to talk to me lol.

Going to a town, in a different country, complete strangers talk to me, I feel safe, i feel comfortable, I feel WELCOMED.

Go travel around Asia, you are certinally a minority there, you will be welcomed with open arms and treated probably better than you are at home. People ask where you are from, big deal.

If you make an issue out of people taking interest in you, you are acting a victim.

Originally posted by JennaDarling
When you travel abroad, have a different accent etc or do not speak the language, ofcourse people ask where you are from, not out of hatred, it is out of CURIOSITY and to GET TO KNOW YOU. That is called being friendly and sociable.

Yes, and I remember in Tunisia that when I didn't want to get bothered by a salesman, I would put on my famous Scottish accent and say "Nee thanks laddie, I'm nay interested." The salesman would instantly recognise the notorious Scottish accent and leave me alone. They had a stereotypical, and widely held perception of Scottish folks as being loud, volatile and potentially dangerous. Is this true? No of course not.

All it took was a couple of social cues and they 'cast me out' of their normal social operating routine. I was segregated because of my accent and perceived cultural background.

Just like many poor people - not just black people - are in the UK today. The word 'chav' comes to mind. We can't let a chav into our nice school now can we? We cant let a chav into our local shop now can we? See my point?

The Revenant.