The best Dogfighting aircraft: SU-37 * F-35 * Rafale * Eurofighter * Gripen *

Originally posted by Shamanator
Even with a gun the Eurofighter is still no match for a normal Hornet let alone the Super Hornet. It's a Generation behind the Super Hornet at the very least.

As for the best Dogfighter that is an easy one they should be ranked like this.

1: F22
2: F35
3: Super Hornet
4: F15
5: Hornet
6: F16
7: Flankers
8: Gryphon
9: Rafale
10: EF

LMFAO!!!

too suspicious to find American AC covering all the 6 top spots wich they cant.

Here is a more realistic list:

1: SU-35BM. "Super Flanker"
2: F-22. "Raptor"
3: SU-30--- "Flanker"
4: MIG-35 "Super Fulcrum"
5: EF-2000 "Typhoon"
6: Gripen NG.
7: SU-27 "Flanker"
8: MIG-29 "Fulcrum"
9: F-16 "Falcon"
10: J-10.

F-15 is too old and has restrictions off how many G's you can pull. (It would desintegrate due to airframe age)

The (Super) Hornet and Rafale are naval planes pur sang and there for have design limits.

Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood

LMFAO!!!

too suspicious to find American AC covering all the 6 top spots wich they cant.

Here is a more realistic list:

1: SU-35BM. "Super Flanker"
2: F-22. "Raptor"
3: SU-30--- "Flanker"
4: MIG-35 "Super Fulcrum"
5: EF-2000 "Typhoon"
6: Gripen NG.
7: SU-27 "Flanker"
8: MIG-29 "Fulcrum"
9: F-16 "Falcon"
10: J-10.

F-15 is too old and has restrictions off how many G's you can pull. (It would desintegrate due to airframe age)

The (Super) Hornet and Rafale are naval planes pur sang and there for have design limits.

Well considering we don't know the improvements in instantaneous/sustained turn rates of the Su-35 vs. the Su-30, I'm not sure one could unequivocally state the Super Flanker's superiority. Additionally, the Flanker is going to bleed airspeed much worse than the Raptor. I'd put the Typhoon and Rafale at least on par with the Su-30/35 in terms of agility, and the SH should be higher up too. In the A/A configuration it has exceptional dogfighting abilities.

Originally posted by snowcat
What is the The best Dogfighting aircraft at the moment: SU-37 * F-35 * Rafale * Eurofighter * Gripen *

I think there is no real leader because every plane has got it's own benefits. The F-35 must the stealthy one and maybe gots one of the best raders. While the SU-37(not for export, shame!) has still got the best areodynamic design. www.maks.ru... The smaller planes like the Gripen, Rafale and the Eurofighter also will be rewarded in dogfighting in the future!

Dogfight:
1 SU-37
2 F-22
3 Rafale

Ground attack:
1 F-35
2 F15
3 SU-25

Let me know what you think???

PS My country also is involved with producing the F-22 and F-35, they bought 180 JSF aircraft for the next 10 years. The Royal Netherlands Airforce is still proud to be part of the deal! Let's hope it will be a wothy deal???

PS Do you guys also looking forward to Ace Combat 5 or sims at the PS3?



[edit on 18-8-2004 by snowcat]

[edit on 19-8-2004 by snowcat]

The Su-37 "Flanker-F" is not in production, they have built only two prototypes. But if we take into consideration all jets (in production and prototypes), it's american equivalent is the F-15 ACTIVE, which has canards and 3D thrust vectoring, while the Su-37 has only 2D thrust vectoring and smaller canards.

I have been doing some reading as Canada is looking to replace it's F18's with F35's which I believe to be a big mistake? Everything I have seen indicates the best dog fighter is the EuroFighter which has been owning the F22.

The challenge is this, do you want a multirole fighter that is a "Jack Of All Trades" and "Master Of None" then you go with the French Rafale. You want the best air to ground, then you go F22 or the poor mans version which is still expensive in the F35.

PERSONALLY, I think that Canada's air strategy is lacking and we should go With a blend of EuroFighters for air to air. New F18's for multi role and A10's for pure ground sweeping.

Essentially the A10's to lead the attack, clear surface to air misses etc, the F18's to back them up and continue / complete the ground work and the EuroFighters to ensure the F18's are left alone.

I also think this approach will keep the costs down from a procurement and maintenance perspective.

EuroFighter pilots have been describing the F22's as "Raptor Salad"......


MistaSee looking for your thoughts on this!

I have been doing some reading as Canada is looking to replace it's F18's with F35's which I believe to be a big mistake? Everything I have seen indicates the best dog fighter is the EuroFighter which has been owning the F22.

The challenge is this, do you want a multirole fighter that is a "Jack Of All Trades" and "Master Of None" then you go with the French Rafale. You want the best air to ground, then you go F22 or the poor mans version which is still expensive in the F35.

PERSONALLY, I think that Canada's air strategy is lacking and we should go With a blend of EuroFighters for air to air. New F18's for multi role and A10's for pure ground sweeping.

Essentially the A10's to lead the attack, clear surface to air missels, etc, the F18's to back them up and continue / complete the ground work and the EuroFighters to ensure the F18's are left alone.

I also think this approach will keep the costs down from a procurement and maintenance perspective.

EuroFighter pilots have been describing the F22's as "Raptor Salad"......


MistaSee looking for your thoughts on this!

reply to post by MistaSee


I very seriously doubt we'll export A-10s. I'm curious to see how lasers will change the game of dogfighting.

groingrinder
How can you call something a dogfight when your turning radius is half the state of Wyoming!! THERE HAVE BEEN NO DOGFIGHTS SINCE THE KOREAN WAR!

There were plenty of real turn and burn dog fights over North Vietnam. Check the guy that got the first kill with the pod mounted electric Gatling gun. The F4 pilots were screaming for a gun because the rockets we so sorry. Shoot two and hope ones tracks as advertised.
4Apr65 355 F-105D Bennet 20mm MiG-17
4Apr65 355 F-105D Magnusson 20mm MiG-17
4Apr65 F-100D Kilgus 20mm MiG-17

10Mar67 354/355 TFW F-105D M. Brestel 20mm MiG-17
10Mar67 354/355 TFW F-105D M. Brestel 20mm MiG-17
26Mar67 333/355 TFW F-105D R. Scott 20mm MiG-17
19Apr67 354/355 TFW F-105D J. Hunt 20mm MiG-17
19Apr67 357/355 TFW F-105D H. Johnson 20mm MiG-17
19Apr67 357/355 TFW F-105D L. Thorsness 20mm MiG-17
19Apr67 354/355 TFW F-105D F. Tolman 20mm MiG-17
19Apr67 354/355 TFW F-105D W. Eskew 20mm MiG-17

13May67 333/355 TFW F-105D R. Rilling AIM-9 MiG-17
13May67 44/388 TFW F-105D M. Seaver Jr. 20mm MiG-17
13May67 354/355 TFW F-105D C. Couch 20mm MiG-17
13May67 354/355 TFW F-105D P. Gast 20mm MiG-17
21Jul67 VF-24 F-8C R. Kirkwood 20mm MiG-17
21Jul67 VF-211 F-8E R. Hubbard 20mm MiG-17
21Jul67 VF-24 F-8E P.Dempewolf 20mm MiG-17
19Dec67 435TFS/8TFW F-4D J.Moore G.McKinney Jr. 20mm MiG-17
19Dec67 357TFS/355TFW F-105E P.Drew W.Wheeler 20mm MiG-17
19Dec67 333TFS/355 TFW F-105F W.Dalton J.Graham 20mm MiG-17
3Jan68 433/8 TFW F-4D B. Bogoslofski R. Huskey 20mm MiG-17
12Jan68 CIA UH-1D T.Moore G.Woods 7.62mm An-2 hahahaa UH-1 air to air !
12Jan68 CIA UH-1D T.Moore G.Woods 7.62mm An-2
14Feb68 555TFS/8TFW F-4D 66-7661 R. Howerton T. Voight 20mm MiG-17
And the last turn and burn I am aware of was:15Oct72 307/432 TRW F-4E G. Rubus J. Hendricks 20mm MiG-21

There were others; even an Army Cobra shot down a Mig 17 and that was one hell of a lucky fire fight for the Army guys...

People and engineers who said the days of fighters needing guns were over got allot of people killed... Look at all the new fighters they all have guns until another egg head pencil pusher in power says we don't.

groingrinder
THERE HAVE BEEN NO DOGFIGHTS SINCE THE KOREAN WAR!

Except the ones that occurred in the Vietnam War, Falklands War, the Arab-Israeli conflicts, the Indo-Pakistani wars, Iran-Iraq War, Persian Gulf War and the Balkans conflict.....

So you really have no clue at all about fighters in battles!

The best dog-fighter is the one that can avoid the dog-fight and score a kill (or 2) while doing so.

reply to post by abecedarian


Or the one that can survive when all the fancy trickery fails to deliver as advertised.

MistaSee
Essentially the A10's to lead the attack, clear surface to air missels, etc, the F18's to back them up and continue / complete the ground work and the EuroFighters to ensure the F18's are left alone.
MistaSee looking for your thoughts on this!

edit on 23-12-2013 by MistaSee because: (no reason given)

Just a few points:

The A-10 isnt capable of leading anything - it would be eaten in A2A by even a Hawk with Sidewinders not to mention any advanced (and less advanced) AA. Stealth generally leads the way to clear a path with the Electronic Warfare aircraft doing this too.

Canada is not really in the position of being invaded by massed armour, therefore the A-10s forte is not really required by Canada.

Canada, probably like the UK, Europe and France are not capable of fielding multiple aircraft groups including niche aircraft like A-10. UK used Harrier, Tornado, Buccaneer and Jaguar - future will be F-35 and Typhoon.

Not sure which theatre of operations you think Canada will need to clear SAMs for its following Jets to clear up but the US dont use them for that, that would be the role of the EA18 Growler (from a Carrier).

The US are about to retire A-10s for F-35.

UK has retired harrier and jaguar and IRRC tornado will be gone too with F-35.

Canada, as far as I know, has no requirement for offensive day 1 capabilities, it doesnt have a carrier, it doesnt project power, so one decent multirole system is all canada requires.

Typhoon every day of the week, designed for rapid intercept high altitude Russian Bombers, aside from Nukes, its the only airborne threat Canada needs to defend against and will come with the added capability of Brimstone, Paveway and Stormshadow.

Jobs jobbed, sign here please.

hehe love this thread its like playing trump cards