What next? Astronomers, Celebrities or the CIA?

Isaac,

Certainly astronomers.

Three in particular.

1. Eamonn Ansbro. Kingsland Observatory, Ireland. He has been testing Dutton's Astronautical Theory for years, and perhaps he explains his results here, www.youtube.com..., but my Irish isn't up to it. Neither is Eamonn's, it seems.

2. Wang Sichao. Purple Mountain Observatory, China. Where is his data?

3. Massimo Teodorani. Astrophysicist at large, Italy. What's he doing now?

I think your track record of high-quality work might appeal to some astronomers, hitherto reluctant to 'come out'.

all the best

Originally posted by Kandinsky
The 'gibberish' doc got a pass, the other two look pretty much the same as the one off the CIA site. There's probably no incentive for their archivist to try and provide a better version for a bunch of sub-culture document collectors.

Mmm. I wonder what quality copies were provided to those making FOIA requests in the 1970s???

I'll add trying to check that to my "to do" list for the CIA thread, since that thread looks like it's going to be the next project I complete...

reply to post by Lowneck
Good calls.

Ansbro is an interesting candidate, but he'd be even more interesting if he published his data so we can work out if his predictability hypothesis holds water.

Teodarani is a great representative for serious research into UAP/UFOs and, as far as I know, is still gathering data and working amongst a group of like-minded scientists. With him, I understand he's less interested in the public arena of opinion and commentary and more focused on teasing the solid data from the extraneous.

Wang Sichao is a grey basket candidate...in my opinion.

reply to post by IsaacKoi
I don't want to sound like one of the 'disinfo agents' we apparently have on ATS, but...the CIA thread would be a hell of a task. It bleeds into everything ufological and then out into the real world. I guess you'd need to set yourself very firm boundaries to keep it a reasonable venture. Despite the 'project management,' I don't doubt you can manage to come up with a masterly thread.

Originally posted by Kandinsky

 

I don't want to sound like one of the 'disinfo agents' we apparently have on ATS, but...the CIA thread would be a hell of a task. It bleeds into everything ufological and then out into the real world.

I know, I know ... hence my concern that while slightly more people have voted for the CIA thread they have done so on the basis of unrealistic expectations as to the depth I would go into. Even if the thread were, say, as long as my Canadian documents thread or my Project Bluebook thread then it would only scratch the surface (plus really investigating some of the issues would take another few years).

I'd understood from your first post in this thread that your were voting in favour of the CIA thread - let me know if you think that in fact I should do the astronomer thread next instead. Your view may swing the balance against the CIA thread...

Originally posted by Lowneck
Isaac,

Certainly astronomers.

Three in particular.

Hi Lowneck,

That for the vote and concrete suggestions.

While I think the CIA thread may have slightly more votes (although not by much if Kandinsky in fact favours the Astronomers thread first), the astronomers thread would be much easier for me to complete since the basic material is already collated and some notes already typed up.

Since the interest in the CIA thread is partially based on a desire to see more depth than I can complete in the near future, I'm quite torn at the moment...

I think I'll send out a few emails regarding the astronomers thread and post a relevant request on ATS in whichever forum is likely to have the most amateur astronomers - and take things from there.

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi
I'll switch to the astronomer's thread as a courtesy to your real-life commitments. Also, it would probably be far more engaging to ATSers and provide some informed ammunition against the meme/myth that UFOs don't really exist because 'astronomers don't see them and they look at the skies all the time.'

Mr deGrasse Tyson is a man I find entertaining and informative; he talks science in terms everyone can relate to. He's funny too. Bearing that in mind, he also dismisses UFOs and shoots the low-hanging fruit whilst seemingly being utterly unaware of at least one legendary astronomer who reported several UFO sightings. If I hint that they both have a connection to an ex-planet, you'll understand the reference*. The connection, and Tyson's saturation in the history of the notables, suggests he's been disingenuous.

* no spoilers

Originally posted by Kandinsky
I'll switch to the astronomer's thread as a courtesy to your real-life commitments.

Whew. Ok, that's a relief.

Right, I'm going with the "Astronomers and UFOs" thread first.

Many thanks to everyone that commented. This little discussion has helped focus my thinking in relation to several potential threads, in addition to serving its intended purpose of helping me decide which thread to complete first.

Since the level of interest is roughly the same and it involves FAR less effort than the CIA thread, I'll get on with finishing the astronomers article.

I'll keep developing my notes on UFOs and the CIA, but will not complete that thread any time soon.

(And I'll be covering the astronomer you didn't name - but with more of a focus on statistical issues than individual astronomers).

All the best,

Isaac

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by Kandinsky

 

I don't want to sound like one of the 'disinfo agents' we apparently have on ATS, but...the CIA thread would be a hell of a task. It bleeds into everything ufological and then out into the real world.

I know, I know

... hence my concern that while slightly more people have voted for the CIA thread they have done so on the basis of unrealistic expectations as to the depth I would go into. Even if the thread were, say, as long as my Canadian documents thread or my Project Bluebook thread then it would only scratch the surface (plus really investigating some of the issues would take another few years).

I agree with you both here. I have looked at this topic myself and it's taken me weeks to even scratch the surface. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it done properly.

The CIA have used the UFO community in more than one way. Think about SERPO, MJ-12 and the Aviary.... I don't mind admitting to being bogged down by it all. Kit Green was so close to some of this, what makes you think he is likely to tell the truth anyway?

Originally posted by Pimander
Kit Green was so close to some of this, what makes you think he is likely to tell the truth anyway?

Who said anything about expecting truthful answers to the questions I'd like to put him?

I just think there are some interesting issues to explore by asking him and others a few questions then cross-referencing those answers against their previous comments plus all the contemporaneous documents I can find... but that's for the CIA thread which is now on hold while I focus on getting the astronomers thread completed...

reply to post by IsaacKoi


I like the idea of the Astronomers and UFOs thread because it involves actual sightings but I don't understand why you wouldn't want to add to the already existing thread started by karl 12 ?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do we need two threads on it ? Is that thread not good enough or something ?

Sorry I don't mean to be a pest but I just don't see why a new thread on the same topic is needed ?

Originally posted by easynow
I like the idea of the Astronomers and UFOs thread because it involves actual sightings but I don't understand why you wouldn't want to add to the already existing thread started by karl 12 ?

I'd been in touch with Karl12 about just this point recently. He's happy for me to start my own thread.

Basically, I want to organise material in my own way and already have notes which currently extend to about 30 pages on Microsoft Word (before adding additional information and references, videos, images etc - with some editing to bring it down a bit afterwards...).

I'm not sure how you'd react to someone posting 30 pages of A4 paper into one of your threads!

Also, I don't want to bury my material by starting it half way down page 3 of a thread that no one has posted on this year...

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi


I wouldn't mind at all if someone posted that much info on one of my threads,

in fact I would be happy about it

No problem though and since you all have already discussed it and have a plan then that's awesome news and I will look forward to seeing the new post from you. Thanks for the clarification

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by Pimander
Kit Green was so close to some of this, what makes you think he is likely to tell the truth anyway?

Who said anything about expecting truthful answers to the questions I'd like to put him?

I just think there are some interesting issues to explore by asking him and others a few questions then cross-referencing those answers against their previous comments plus all the contemporaneous documents I can find... but that's for the CIA thread which is now on hold while I focus on getting the astronomers thread completed...

Good thinking Batman!

Isaac, I have to hand it to you... I love your style.

You're dead right not wanting to put too much work into a post on another members thread. Many of us have done it before only to wind up starting a thread on the topic later and wasting precious time. Karl12 will be looking forward to more information as much as any of us. Take it easy, Easynow.

Originally posted by Lost_Mind
reply to post by Nikola014

 

Is that a telescope in your pocket or are you just happy to be here?

I'm thinking the first one

No,but seriously,astronomers have more credibility then CIA....

reply to post by Kandinsky

Heya K, if you reopen DOC_0000015287_ocr.pdf you'll notice that you can select the contents of the page. Basically the way Adobe OCR's the images is it puts all the text behind the graphic. As for the .docx it should be accessible. I don't see any UI components on 4shared to unlock or password the file. If you still want to give the file a look, try pointing your browser here to grab a copy. Though there's not much to see.

Running the CIA spider now and downloading all of the PDF's. I've got a library that will tell me how many pages each PDF is, if you want me to run that too... have to look into it.

The spreadsheet will have the headline, date created and the URL for the PDF.

Jeff

Here's a zip file with the spreadsheet, the original data and all 242 PDF's. Please don't download it if you're just curious as it's my bandwidth and it's 65 MB. I just would rather not have a 100 downloads of it - that'll cost me $$$.

parnasse.com...

The data is not quite in the order that the search results came out because I had an array reversal bug. Each 25 search results out of the 11 pages is backwards if you're trying to compare with the CIA's own pages. Sorry about that, but I'd rather not revisit them. I was in and out in about 15 minutes so that should not look like an attack. Also, when I was developing it, I didn't hit their site with a buggy spider, instead I hit a saved version of their first search results page.

Jeff

Issac, did you see this, new UK UFO file releases. Huge PDF files, not a search engine.

ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk...

www.rawstory.com...

Originally posted by idealord
Issac, did you see this, new UK UFO file releases.

Yes, thanks - I started a thread about it just after midnight and downloaded them while I slept.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Issac, I assume you saw my previous post about the CIA data capture?

Cheers,

Jeff