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China's Debt Problem Worse than Portugal

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posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 

the shadowstats is following the right methodolgy ,unlike the us govt stats which are propaganda
let me tell you a basic of inflation you take last year and this year price of the commodity in consideration or the same for a basket of goods/commodities.This is how inflation has been calculated for hundreds of years . But how is inflation being calculated since 1990's in usa,using substitution,hedonics ,which gives totally bogus numbers

seekingalpha.com...

on hedonics:
Hedonics opens the door to producing magical results: a lower inflation rate with generally rising prices, a higher growth rate although the economy may be weaker, and a higher productivity number, although productivity would have been declining without the hedonic imputations




The term “hedonics” is derived from ancient Greek and basically means “pleasure doctrine”. It is also the doctrine which the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) applies when calculating the price indices and for the computation of the real gross domestic product and of productivity. The idea behind hedonic price index calculation is to incorporate quality changes into prices. This way, a product may be on the market at a higher price, but when the product qualities have augmented more than the price in the eyes of the BLS, it will calculate that the price of this product has actually fallen. Applying the hedonic technique to a host of goods and services means that even when prices were generally rising, but product improvement are deemed to be larger than the price increases, the calculated inflation rate will fall. With a lower inflation rate, the transformation of nominal gross domestic product (GDP) into real GDP will render a higher result. Likewise, given a constant labor input, productivity will increase. Hedonics opens the door to producing magical results: a lower inflation rate with generally rising prices, a higher growth rate although the economy may be weaker, and a higher productivity number, although productivity would have been declining without the hedonic imputations. The BLS felt compelled to incorporate “quality changes” into its calculation of the price statistics in the second half of the 1990s when many new and modified goods and services appeared on the market and studies were launched that suggested that the conventional statistics overestimates the “true inflation rate“.[ii]
mises.org...


on substitution:
If steak goes up too much, they figure that people will switch over to something cheaper like hot dogs so they take steak out and substitute hotdogs into their basket of goods.

Then they have weighting. They reduce the weight of the things that are rising the fastest because they figure people will use less of that item because of the increased price. So they'll take healthcare which makes up 17% of the GDP and make it only 6% of the CPI index.
----



The focus of this thread is on china being caught red handed lieing / covering their debt. As a side note the source you linked is from 2009 numbers, and backs up what ive responded with about the US and actual debt / funded / unfunded obligations that are long term (SS/Mdicare/etc)


China uses similiar methodology as the west for calculating debt to GDP. and Dragonomics figure includes social spending and infrastructural debt issues which leads to 89% .not bad compared to 840-2000% debt to GDP ratio for USA when you consider social liability spendings. BUT HIGHLY UNDERSTATED.

by the way foxbusiness is beating around an old issue ,its been known since 2010 that the chinese have 220% debt considering their social and infrastructure spending for local and municipal projects.
Check Zerohedge on this issue and this has been reported in several financial journals in China,but here's a catch ,they believe that US debt to GDP ratio is in the magnitude of 500%-2000%.Think of it.The best debt to GDP ratio status is currently belonging to Russia because they are the best followers of many Austrian economic policies.

as for US debt ratio ,it is what the investment circle would call enron accounting or should I say ponzi accounting.A lot of debt is hidden in the form of interest rate swaps and if it is considered then US debt is in the magnitude OF 400-500 TRILLION$.



www.zerohedge.com...

www.financialsensearchive.com...
www.marketoracle.co.uk...
www.marketoracle.co.uk...




posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 05:04 AM
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The Topic is China got caught lieing about their finances - Anything to add on that topc? If you dont thats fine, but instead of derailing this thread please make a seperate one that discusses the US and its debt issue.


most nations do lie so ? but the way fed reserve is hiding debts via derivatives,creative accounting and god knows what other hocus pocus ,I wonder how long will the sheep in usa continue sleeping




Also your hero on that site doesnt use Government standards. Instead he uses his own and bases it off reporting stat method used during the great depression. During that time CPI were different, as was standard of living and income, based on the economy setup at the time in addition using stats that "he" think s should be used. Aside from obfuscation I am not sure why you 2 feel the need to continually insert the US into the topic. Are you both incapable of holding a conversation without trying to derail it into another Anti American rant? We have plenty of those threads around, so feel free to go run up your flag count there.


anti-american ? I am a patriot not anti-american .But I am against the corporatism ,fascism and militarism you so brazenly support neo-con.This is the disease that destroyed our great nation and has turned it into a genocidal monster.




. Instead he uses his own and bases it off reporting stat method used during the great depression


used till the 80's.




Also your hero on that site doesnt use Government standards


current govt standards are bogus.So like how is USA the land of free and home of the brave.
USA today is land of the fee and home of the slave.China is the only home of slave on the other hand



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
You 2, once again, miss the point. No one is disputing that the USA has a debt issue. The focus of this thread is on china


EXACTLY.

We all know about the US's issues. It's in the media practically every hour 24/7. This thread is about China's issues. BUT, Apparently some would rather carry on with their obvious AGENDA and avoid the topic all together and talk about the US. Which is fine.

There are plenty of threads on that topic.

How about this.

Write their own thread on the US and have at it.

edit on 17-9-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


funny thing is that the world's largest debtor is trying to lecture the world's largest creditor. that's what i am finding funny .

pointing fingers at others will not help.China is the next superpower and USA will be cleaning # of the floor.
Soon,americans will be janitors in China,while american mail order brides marry chinese men ,provided they don't eat Mcblimp burgers and are like blimps.

edit on 17-9-2011 by USAisdevil because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by USAisdevil

China is the next superpower and USA will be cleaning # of the floor.
Soon,americans will be janitors in China,while american mail order brides marry chinese men ,provided they don't eat Mcblimp burgers and are like blimps.





I'll just let what you've posted just kind of sit there and fester while letting others decide for themselves how they feel about the quality of your contribution to the discussion.




edit on 17-9-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


fact is fact.I stated the obvious.Is it deniable that China is the next superpower and USA is becoming like Mexico,a third world hellhole and banana republic..



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by USAisdevil
 


Uhm.. riiight....

You dont see the correlation between your argument and anti american agenda and Chinas actions?

We know the Us debt is an issue, and has long term national security intrests involved. You and the others are so quick to go after the Us for its fiscal policies and situations, yet you guys are to arrogant to realize that China, who you hold on high, is going down the EXACT same road as the US is.

So its bad when the US does it, yet you support China when they do it?

As has been stated before, you and the others are more than welcome to start a new thread dealing with your anti US hate rants. This thread is for China and its actions, so please move your side story to its own thread.

Thanks.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by USAisdevil
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


fact is fact.I stated the obvious.Is it deniable that China is the next superpower and USA is becoming like Mexico,a third world hellhole and banana republic..


How old are you USAisdevil?

How is it obvious?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


And Americas Debt Problem Worse than China, so there is no difference there. Every country has there own debt problems even canada.


Agreed.Many posters here refuse to see the obvious .I saw whats coming to usa in 2001 and hence I left.I made a good decision today and am much better off than 2001.


If I had to take a WAG, you definitely sound like a IT professional who left when the going got tough. You probably were not a US Citizen or you were a permanent resident or a contract professional from overseas on short/long term Work Visa. Once again, its a WAG. If you were a US Citizen (Naturalized or by birth in US) and you bailed out, then I wont even bother commenting on your action despite you feel/claim you're a PATRIOT
There is a contradiction here


Given that layout of Supply Chain takes forever but thats by design to use the budget every year and to justify the Government Sector (Civilians & Contractors). During the actual event, the Military steps in when the Government cannot handle the supply chain layout. Lets not even get into how the Military will handle things or it has during dire strait disasters and major crisis situations that the Government couldn't handle. There has been significant investment made in the infrastructure and the SYSTEM (money, personnel and technology) itself since the last major world wars in the US that would blow your mind away. Ever heard of BLACK BUDGET for the DOD? Nothing is disclosed. The books are cooked up partially (YES including debt and losses)to cover the BLACK BUDGET.

Outsourcing is transient (BPO for now) political process before the Tax Laws are revived in US. There is also a reverse outsourcing occurring with China and several other countries from India. There are other players in the outsourcing business too. If the plug is pulled on the outsourcing industry, it will definitely have its own affects on the economy that relies upon.

This thread is intended to focus on China's debt problem in comparison to Portugal. Now we all can be better off by comparing every single nation on this thread but thats like saying that 'even ludwigvonmises003 can do better in life'.


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posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by hp1229
 


with massive debt and ever shrinking GDP....

how old are you? and where do you get your news from ? worldnutdaily?newsmax?faux news?cnbc?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by hp1229
 


instead of criticizing and insulting others,read their contributions.


but i guess you america the best country chestbeater.

and yes ,black budget is not main reason for deficit.corruption,decayed system ,lack of transparency and accountability is the reason why USA is in such bad economic state.

bon voyage to the third world.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by USAisdevil
reply to post by hp1229
 

with massive debt and ever shrinking GDP....
how old are you? and where do you get your news from ? worldnutdaily?newsmax?faux news?cnbc?


Nevermind.

No point in explaining.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by USAisdevil
reply to post by hp1229
 

instead of criticizing and insulting others,read their contributions.

but i guess you america the best country chestbeater.
and yes ,black budget is not main reason for deficit.corruption,decayed system ,lack of transparency and accountability is the reason why USA is in such bad economic state.
bon voyage to the third world.

If you think that was an insult then I must be doing good as I havn't even started yet

Talk about hypocrits.


you america the best country chestbeater.
Reminds me of China Town


Did you even fully read my response as in which context BLACK BUDGET was being used to explain/clarify the point that was made?


corruption,decayed system ,lack of transparency and accountability

If you know all about the Debt Problem then enlighten us instead of trying to be a moderator. The above factors
that you mentioned are pretty much common in every country. Politics 101.



edit on 26-9-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by USAisdevil

I just read through your posts. Definitely seem like a TROLL.
edit on 26-9-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by hp1229
 


You make all kinds of accusations,huh?I left America because of the creeping fascism which has totally engulfed this nation.Secondly,I do not work in the IT industry.Third,thanks to militaristic bunch like you we are in deep crisis and a crossroads of communism or fascism.

As for the deficits ,its not the military black budget that draining our economy.Its the massive corruption,manipulation of financial markets and CIA revolutions and drug trade combined with high oil prices and insane speculation that's bankrupting us.

AS for debt issues of USA,please check my posts.



Given that layout of Supply Chain takes forever but thats by design to use the budget every year and to justify the Government Sector (Civilians & Contractors). During the actual event, the Military steps in when the Government cannot handle the supply chain layout. Lets not even get into how the Military will handle things or it has during dire strait disasters and major crisis situations that the Government couldn't handle. There has been significant investment made in the infrastructure and the SYSTEM (money, personnel and technology) itself since the last major world wars in the US that would blow your mind away. Ever heard of BLACK BUDGET for the DOD? Nothing is disclosed. The books are cooked up partially (YES including debt and losses)to cover the BLACK BUDGET.


where's the evidence of your supply chain in black budget? stop posting nonsense or provide proof ACCORDINGLY
edit on 26-9-2011 by ludwigvonmises003 because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-9-2011 by ludwigvonmises003 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by ludwigvonmises003
 


All BS Mr So called Patriot (a true patriot does not abandon his/her country during bad times).

No point in explaining.
edit on 27-9-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by hp1229
 


I can see you have no understanding ...typical american education designed to make people stupid.




If you know all about the Debt Problem then enlighten us instead of trying to be a moderator. The above factors that you mentioned are pretty much common in every country. Politics 101.


check ludwig's posts on this thread and yor nation is the worst of all. a nuclear armed third world nation.




Did you even fully read my response as in which context BLACK BUDGET was being used to explain/clarify the point that was made


blacck budget...

talk about corrupt budget.


edit on 27-9-2011 by USAisdevil because: (no reason given)

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posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by hp1229
 


and who are you to call to dictate ? NSA?CIA?FBI?

you seem like a automated user rather than human..........................................................................



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by USAisdevil
reply to post by hp1229
 


edit on 27-9-2011 by USAisdevil because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-9-2011 by USAisdevil because: (no reason given)

Duplicate Post.
edit on 27-9-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by USAisdevil
reply to post by hp1229
 


edit on 27-9-2011 by USAisdevil because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-9-2011 by USAisdevil because: (no reason given)


As posted before.
You are nothing more than a Troll. No point in discussing.



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