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Is the obelisk in St. Peter's Square Masonic?

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posted on Aug, 8 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by Rosha

This peice on Obelisks was interesting..


The first thing I noticed was the word "watch" in the web address...

Then, browsing through the article, words such as 'blasphemy', 'Luciferic', and the good old "Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths" quotes from the Bible.

Got me wondering about the validity of the sources...


edit on 8/8/2011 by Saurus because: (no reason given)



I said 'interesting' purposefully. In a world where perception is 9/10's of everything..this is how they are being viewed. You'll also see ppl here on ATS going on about Lucifarianism and the bible etc That alone doesnt make them wrong or kooks necessarily, just believers of their own minds perception of right and wrong.




posted on Aug, 8 2011 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Yeah, it lasted 20 pages so I guess it was really quick. It probabaly would have kept going if you did not avoid answering questions, did not state it was your purpose to antagonize Masons and did not get in a pissing contest with a Super Moderator.


I think anybody who reads that thread will see what happened, a couple of very interesting behind the scenes U2U's, a post ban, and some interesting post history which proved what I was saying behind that pissing contest put me off the Secret Societies Forum. It's a gangbang here, and any thread that mentions freemasonry will suffer the same tired old masonic innundations which we were assured would be dealt with. It wasn't.
The question I 'didn't answer' was why I thought the obelisks in question were masonic, to which I replied if they were purchased, erected, and maintained by freemasons then how are they not masonic, over and over and over and over again. That thread was railroaded, and it's a great example of what happened to the secret societies forum here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 8 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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This may already have been mentioned ,,
if it has just ignore,
Their are 3 Vatican/London/Washington

All 3 not of this world, ie Corporations ,, for waht is like a man ,,but not a man,
a Corporation.

The Symbol,
represents, the (A) Royal House of xxxxxxxx
When Combined
with the (B) Royal House of xxxxxxxx,
Then the time of the End is here.
And the Royal House of
A+B
Will Rule a thousand years, with God. on Earth, with man.
There u have it,, the rest of the Story,

It u ever hear of the one about the Royal Oaks of Wiltshier?
All in a circle,
were built up,
a wall of oak,
For inside,
Was the Oak which grew,
Into the Earth,
It's Roots,, above,,
And its
Leaves below,



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by twitchy
The question I 'didn't answer' was why I thought the obelisks in question were masonic, to which I replied if they were purchased, erected, and maintained by freemasons then how are they not masonic, over and over and over and over again.


Which the obelisk in question, the Trinity Memorial, was not as is demonstrated by the lack of evidence that anything about it is was Masonic.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


1. Thank you for your info about belisks.

2. I do know that masons are masters of diss-information.

They mix the truth and false , they make you mixed up. you get a conclusion falsely.

3. about what Pope Benedict XVI had said. He is simply master, too.

My question : Christians to pray particular part of day ?

Don't day pray Sundays ?

then why was it important for Christians to know what is the time exactly ?

4.


Zodiac actually tells the story of Christ the redeemer


He was a redeemer.

Did he choose a symbol to show that he was a redeemer ?
I mean that prophets have been fighting paganism to help people understand about God and his ultimate power. He couldn't make a new symbol to show that he was a redeemer. He could know that , after a while people may begin to worship that symbol.

5.IMO :


Church is somehow in league with the Masons


6. You may have seen the movies that Tom Hanks play in.

The Da Vinci code
Angels & demons

They are just trying to show a separation between Illuminati & freemasonry , while they are not separated.

7. The specialty of church is that they are students of Jesus and they should let people know about him. Church will be special without Obelisks ,too.

8. You know that those in Egypts were pagans and worshiping Idols when Obelisks and Pyramids were being built.

So why should church use a symbol that was like those idols.

9. Why they are not using another form of pillars to know about time in the day ?

10. We (Muslims) are going to stone obelisks this Friday

Thank you .
edit on 27/9/11 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by FortAnthem
 



My question : Christians to pray particular part of day ?

Don't day pray Sundays ?

then why was it important for Christians to know what is the time exactly ?


Catholic priests, religious and some laity are supposed to say certain prayers at certain times every day. Divine office.

Catholic Churches also have mass every day of the week but, the faithful are only required to attend on Sundays.




4.


Zodiac actually tells the story of Christ the redeemer


He was a redeemer.

Did he choose a symbol to show that he was a redeemer ?
I mean that prophets have been fighting paganism to help people understand about God and his ultimate power. He couldn't make a new symbol to show that he was a redeemer. He could know that , after a while people may begin to worship that symbol.



The Zodiac symbols were created by God at the beginning of time to tell the story of the Gospel. Adam, the first man knew about this and passed it on to his decendents. Over time, the original meaning of the Zodiac was lost and pagans gave their own meanings to the symbols (if you believe in the Gospel in the stars theory that is).



7. The specialty of church is that they are students of Jesus and they should let people know about him. Church will be special without Obelisks ,too.

8. You know that those in Egypts were pagans and worshiping Idols when Obelisks and Pyramids were being built.

So why should church use a symbol that was like those idols.


The obelisk is not a Christian symbol, it has pagan roots. My guess is that the obelisk was moved to the Vatican because it could serve as a sundial in St Peter's Square, not because the obelisk, as a symbol, had any religious significance.




edit on 9/27/11 by FortAnthem because:
_________



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


For proof that Pope Benedict, John Paul II and Paul IV were secret Freemasons check out the photos of them giving Masonic handshakes here:

www.destroyfreemasonry.com...

Here's another site with photographs of major world figures giving Masonic handshakes and signals:

www.naturalmedicine.com...

I'm waiting for the ats masons to discredit these photos...




edit on 27-9-2011 by GrassyKnoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by GrassyKnoll
 


There are a lot of serious questions about the popes since John XXIII. If anything they mark the final triumph of the plot outlined in the Alta Vendita in which the ultimate goal was to subvert the Church to their ends, rather than seek its destruction.

You may also be interested in one of my older threads: Siri Thesis - The Pope in Red.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by hmdphantom
 

2. How do you know this?

How am I false when I post facts?

4. Was? Is he still not our redeemer?


Did he choose a symbol to show that he was a redeemer?

One could look at the eucharist as a symbol. What about the allegory of being lamb or shepherd.

5. The Church that has attacked us in league with us?

6. Or they could be producing a series of FICTIONAL books.


So why should church use a symbol that was like those idols.

Everyone uses symbols, particularly in ttimes when most could not read.

9. I don't know.

10. Who cares what some Islamic fundamentalists do.

reply to post by GrassyKnoll
 

You really are simple minded.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by GrassyKnoll
 


If they are Master Masons then they would be using a Master Mason grip, and they are not. As you can see from the link you provided

Why is that. ?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by GrassyKnoll
 
Since you present yourself as a Masonic expert, how and why are these Masonic? Please explain, and show tour work. Otherwise, nothing but speculation. There are many websites that show accurately what you are trying to say, but you wont even TRY to look?



edit on 9/27/11 by scooterstrats because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by GrassyKnoll
I'm waiting for the ats masons to discredit these photos...
How many times have YOU given or received a Masonic handshake? Does that make you a Mason? Sorry, photos of handshakes or alleged hand signs don't mean squat.
edit on 2011.9.27 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNortonHow many times have YOU given or received a Masonic handshake?


Thank you for posing this question!

In my life I have shook hands THOUSANDS of times probably even TENS of THOUSANDS of times.

NOT ONCE no NOT EVER has someone put their thumb on my knuckle during a handshake or given me an "ECCENTRIC" handshake.



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by Sauron
reply to post by GrassyKnoll
 


If they are Master Masons then they would be using a Master Mason grip, and they are not. As you can see from the link you provided

Why is that. ?



If you had the ability to read and you would clearly see diagrams, with explanations, of masonic handshakes in the second link I provided in this thread.

Typical nonsense reply.



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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The obelisk is a phallic symbol....now look around and where do we put the phallus? Into the womb...

There it is...a dome...most times.. not all times... but most times, you will find a dome...

Washington Monument...look the other way...Capitol Dome

StPeters...obelisk...turn and look..the Vatican Dome...

It is pagan in origin...and in between, there us usually a canal or corridor...ie the wet vagina to the womb...the pool on the mall in Washington....between the monument and the capitol dome...

I think it is Masonic... no coincidences. Besides, who actually and literally built the Vatican? would it be masons?



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by GrassyKnoll

Originally posted by Sauron
reply to post by GrassyKnoll
 


If they are Master Masons then they would be using a Master Mason grip, and they are not. As you can see from the link you provided

Why is that. ?



If you had the ability to read and you would clearly see diagrams, with explanations, of masonic handshakes in the second link I provided in this thread.

Typical nonsense reply.
You seem to be the one with the inability to read. Your own source diagrams the grip of a Master Mason as having nothing to do with a thumb on a knuckle. So Sauron is asking, if these people are Master Masons, why are they not using the Master Mason grip as shown in the lower right corner of the diagram on your link?



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
You seem to be the one with the inability to read. Your own source diagrams the grip of a Master Mason as having nothing to do with a thumb on a knuckle. So Sauron is asking, if these people are Master Masons, why are they not using the Master Mason grip as shown in the lower right corner of the diagram on your link?


Also, those diagrams were taken from Duncan's Monitor. They do not even closely resemble Masonic handshakes as used in Europe.



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Also, those diagrams were taken from Duncan's Monitor. They do not even closely resemble Masonic handshakes as used in Europe.



Sounds interesting. Can you direct me to a source where I can find out about European Masonic handshakes, or would they have to cut your guts out if you revealed that info?

Also; since the Euro's and the Americans have different handshakes, does that mean that you don't consider your American brethren to be full equals or something like that?

Maybe they're considered backwards cousins who still can't get their signals right?



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by FortAnthem


Sounds interesting. Can you direct me to a source where I can find out about European Masonic handshakes, or would they have to cut your guts out if you revealed that info?


The only way I'm aware of to accurately receive that information is to become a Mason.



Also; since the Euro's and the Americans have different handshakes, does that mean that you don't consider your American brethren to be full equals or something like that?


No. These have been routinely changed throughout history to protect the fraternity's privacy. Duncan's has never been completely accurate.
edit on 28-9-2011 by Masonic Light because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 

I do love the differences between Scottish Rite influenced Blue Lodge rituals vs York Rite influenced Blue Lodge rituals. Or just seeing the differences between jurisdictions in the US.

I had fun with the Italian Masons and I plan on visiting more European Lodges.



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