the universe that we can see is much closer than we think

ever looked backwards through binoculars?
if you have you will be aware of a simple trick of optics,
just as a telescope can make things appair closer,
the optical properties of our solar system and galaxy can act just like the backwards binoculars and make objects "appair" further away.

the galaxy is a lens and we are inside it, the solar bubble is a lens that is inside the galaxy lens,
this means when we look at stars and galaxies that are not in the milky way we have no real idea how far they are from us.

there is a size luminosity diagram designed to decide what type of stars we are looking at,
but stars have bubbles around them that act like lenses, how do we know we are looking at the surface of the lens or the surface of a star.

when you consider these "lenses" have different properties and the two lenses can "factor" into each other,
we might acually be alot closer to our nearest neibours that it looks.

how much closer?
well the further away from our solar bubble you get the more the appairent distence is distorted.
so not only are the closest objects (other stars in the milky way) alot closer than we think but stars and galaxies outside the milky way may be much closer than we think.

the further out you go the higher the compounded errors are and the larger the universe looks.

what about expansion?
well if we are in an expanding lens looking out into the universe,
we would see the universe expanding due to the bias from the expansion of our local bubble.
if the galaxy bubble was expanding the whole universe would "appair" to expand

we measure large distences with light,
but light can effect the percieved distence if lensed, we are in a lens so how can we use light?
light can be affected by lenses and cause all sorts of image artifacts,
distortions, magnifycation, and dilocation between image and mass

all these problems have very complicated answers,
but one optical phenomonon can explain some of the greatest unanswered questions in the universe

optical gravitational lensing has created an optical illusion of great distence,
one that makes humans feel alone in the universe,
but simple optical physics coupled with gravity show us, we are much closer to objects than they appair.

it is my opinion that we can travel to the stars and to other galaxies,
if we get over the optical illusion of distence we may find that its a short "hop" over to the next system

kinda makes me think,
we could be on other worlds in my life time.


xploder

nice topic, can i know what level of knowledge you got in this? I mean what have you done in this field?

reply to post by XPLodER

the optical properties of our solar system and galaxy can act just like the backwards binoculars and make objects "appair" further away. the galaxy is a lens and we are inside it, the solar bubble is a lens that is inside

the galaxy lens, this means when we look at stars and galaxies that are not in the milky way we have no real idea how far they are from us.

I commend you for your open-mindedness as i love to think open-minded about things freely as well.
And yes even so open-minded that my brain will fall out.

I want the other star systems to be closer than they actually appear to be.

it is my opinion that we can travel to the stars and to other galaxies, if we get over the optical illusion of distence
we may find that its a short "hop" over to the next system

kinda makes me think, we could be on other worlds in my life time.

So in our life-times we can send probes and/or have high res images of the exo-planets in these other star systems....

And the Aliens living on these planets..

S & F

The HUMAN RACE

Will Find "Creature" On other planets and i believe it 100%

Yes, while this may be true, just going to last planet in our solar system is not a "short hop" as you put it. I think they said it would take something like 20 some odd years just to get to Pluto (yes I know it's no longer a planet). That in itself is impossible as of right now for a manned mission.

Gravity lenses only occur where spacetime warps around a very massive object. This causes the rays of light to be bent. Sometimes this bending will result in the magnification of the object, while in other situations it only distorts the object.

They do not function in the same manner as an optical lens. Neat idea though.

reply to post by cmdrkeenkid

Gravity lenses only occur where spacetime warps around a very massive object. This causes the rays of light to be bent. Sometimes this bending will result in the magnification of the object, while in other situations it only distorts the object.

They do not function in the same manner as an optical lens. Neat idea though.

But what if we evoke the purported 'Dark Matter' that is supposed to be present in the galaxy in places....

Then the dark matter causes one big gravity lense around the solar systems 'edge' heliosphere

I'm not saying dark matter exists maybe it does maybe it doesn't maybe its actually anti-matter maybe its gravity from alternate universes over lapping..

maybe its the warping of the light when hitting the heliosphere causing gravitational collapse and forming a lense around the solar system

aka

"Heliosphere"

Lense

Originally posted by ftperror
nice topic, can i know what level of knowledge you got in this? I mean what have you done in this field?

i have predicted the optical type gravitational lensing events from optical and gravity principals
i when asked i provided for a nearly perfect way to survey for this type of lens (IR and Sub MM signatures)
i have described a new form of gravitational lensing (confirmed) , and a new variant of gravitational lensing that has yet to be confirmed by observations.

you could say i know a bit...
xploder

What a fascinating thread. I suppose we'll start learning some truth about this when the two Voyagers break out of the Solar System and the bubble they discovered to exist there. I think it's time we start mass producing probes of the Voyager variety in firing them off in all directions. ALL DIRECTIONS. Wtihin a few decades they'll start getting to where we can accurately map the bubble effect surrounding us.

Originally posted by TheUniverse
reply to post by XPLodER

 

I commend you for your open-mindedness as i love to think open-minded about things freely as well.
And yes even so open-minded that my brain will fall out.

I want the other star systems to be closer than they actually appear to be.

it pays to have an open mind,



.

So in our life-times we can send probes and/or have high res images of the exo-planets in these other star systems....

And the Aliens living on these planets..

S & F

The HUMAN RACE

Will Find "Creature" On other planets and i believe it 100%

IMHO
i think we could have people on other planets outside our solar system within 30 years

xploder

Originally posted by geraldcole
Yes, while this may be true, just going to last planet in our solar system is not a "short hop" as you put it. I think they said it would take something like 20 some odd years just to get to Pluto (yes I know it's no longer a planet). That in itself is impossible as of right now for a manned mission.

yes with current thinking and tech it would take a while just to get to our solar system planets,
but there is alot happining atm with different propulsion systems.
the main thing is fuel in the current thinking, and the fuel required to carry the fuel.

xploder

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Gravity lenses only occur where spacetime warps around a very massive object. This causes the rays of light to be bent. Sometimes this bending will result in the magnification of the object, while in other situations it only distorts the object.

They do not function in the same manner as an optical lens. Neat idea though.

acually they do,
a recent discovery in optical lensing

A gravitational lens not only distorts the image of a distant object, it can also act like an optical lens, collecting and refocusing the light to make it appear brighter. Wondering if gravitational lensing might be responsible for the unusual brightness of these objects, the Herschel scientists teamed up with CfA astronomers Mark Gurwell and Ray Blundell to use the Submillimeter Array (SMA) to help resolve the question through its superb spatial resolution.

link to ex content

and our milky way is an optical lens

xploder

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
What a fascinating thread. I suppose we'll start learning some truth about this when the two Voyagers break out of the Solar System and the bubble they discovered to exist there. I think it's time we start mass producing probes of the Voyager variety in firing them off in all directions. ALL DIRECTIONS. Wtihin a few decades they'll start getting to where we can accurately map the bubble effect surrounding us.

one interesting thing with the voyagers were they are closer to the edge than previously thought,
this is expected by optical theory as the distence distortion becomes noticable

xploder

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
What a fascinating thread. I suppose we'll start learning some truth about this when the two Voyagers break out of the Solar System and the bubble they discovered to exist there. I think it's time we start mass producing probes of the Voyager variety in firing them off in all directions. ALL DIRECTIONS. Wtihin a few decades they'll start getting to where we can accurately map the bubble effect surrounding us.

i have a previous thread about a solar dynamics observatory mission to carry probes to measure the optical properties of the boundries of the helio sphere and the medium outside the heliosphere.

would be nice to know the optical density for my calculations

xploder

hey everybody there are 1241 Potentially Hazardous Asteroids and i wanted to know which one is going to hit earth or get so close you can see it with the naked eye here is the website there on neo.jpl.nasa.gov...

reply to post by XPLodER
Yes it would be. Now this is the kind of work NASA was made for. Pure science for the science of it and foundations of knowledge to build for others later. Oh..NASA? Hello? Anyone there?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


the interesting thing is that if objects are closer than they appair then we could use lenses to "correct" our view and with the help of adaptive optics and computer filtering we could "reverse the prescription" and possably see much much further into the universe

xploder

reply to post by johnnythunder16


i am sorry but you will have to sift the data yourself...
comets are not really what this thread is about
ask member PHAGE
he is like an encilopidia with his knowledge


xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


I thoroughly enjoyed sharing your thoughts - the possibilities eh .......- wondrous stuff!

Dark Energy and Dark Matter were invented by physicisists to explain the discrepancy in the mathmatical calculations of the mass and speed of the observable universe which were not even close to what the formulas said they should be. There just is not enough "stuff" to provide the needed gravitational forces to make things act like we observe them to act. If the "lensing" phenomenon were proven, and it's subsequent corrections to the math were deemed to be an accurate way to interpret the images used in galactic calculations, it may be possible to create a formula for the universe that didn't include inventing stuff to make the math work.

Originally posted by twinmommy38
Dark Energy and Dark Matter were invented by physicisists to explain the discrepancy in the mathmatical calculations of the mass and speed of the observable universe which were not even close to what the formulas said they should be. There just is not enough "stuff" to provide the needed gravitational forces to make things act like we observe them to act. If the "lensing" phenomenon were proven, and it's subsequent corrections to the math were deemed to be an accurate way to interpret the images used in galactic calculations, it may be possible to create a formula for the universe that didn't include inventing stuff to make the math work.

i can prove that these lenses are there what im having trouble with is the "strenght" of the lenses
"as posted by wrabbit"
if we could measure the "density" and optical density of the various boundry layers we could figuar out just how close objects really are by deducing the lensing "potential"


ps thanks wrabbit

xploder