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Originally posted by XPLodER
acually they do,
a recent discovery in optical lensing
A gravitational lens not only distorts the image of a distant object, it can also act like an optical lens, collecting and refocusing the light to make it appear brighter. Wondering if gravitational lensing might be responsible for the unusual brightness of these objects, the Herschel scientists teamed up with CfA astronomers Mark Gurwell and Ray Blundell to use the Submillimeter Array (SMA) to help resolve the question through its superb spatial resolution.
link to ex content
and our milky way is an optical lens
Here is a question I have always had, if space-time is distorted by super-massive objects, and you were travelling from one black-hole to another that was 100AUs from the first one, would they seem like they were at a further distance because of the distortion?
Continuing the train of thought, would relative space-time change as you got in between two solar systems, and/or two galaxies?
Originally posted by Kryties
Just a question - and I may be way off-base with this one as I am not a professional astronomer - but what about redshift? How does this lensing effect explain the shift of light towards the red spectrum the further it has travelled?
Originally posted by smithjustinb
Wouldn't the lens around our solar system and the lens around another solar system cancel each other out... One magnifies while the other de-magnifies.
Sun ) ( Other Star.edit on 1-8-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by clintdelicious
Interesting thinking, while I certainly dont have the knowledge to have a god debate on this subject would we not have discovered this from the voyager missions as they would have taken less time if there was a significant level of distortion? I feel like there could be some truth to this, but it will maybe only be significant to a much smaller degree and only really significant to very far away bodies in space.
Like I said though I have no expertise in anything like this so I am probably getting the theory of this wrong lol
Recalculating the Distance to Interstellar Space
Scientists analyzing recent data from NASA's Voyager and Cassini spacecraft have calculated that Voyager 1 could cross over into the frontier of interstellar space at any time and much earlier than previously thought. The findings are detailed in this week's issue of the journal Nature.
Data from Voyager's low-energy charged particle instrument, first reported in December 2010, have indicated that the outward speed of the charged particles streaming from the sun has slowed to zero. The stagnation of this solar wind has continued through at least February 2011, marking a thick, previously unpredicted "transition zone" at the edge of our solar system.
Astronomers have shown that, at high red shifts, gravitational lensing might have a dominant effect on the number of galaxies counted in upcoming surveys. As astronomers peer deeper into the sky, they will have to be careful what they count.
When counting galaxies, astronomers use the Schechter luminosity function, which gives a characteristic luminosity for a distribution of galaxies. Above this luminosity, there are exponentially fewer galaxies; below it, the number galaxies grows rapidly. Fitting the observed distribution of galaxies to the luminosity function gives an estimate of the number of galaxies in that distribution. But overcounting bright galaxies gives the wrong fit, and will throw that estimate off. And gravitational lensing might produce just this sort of overcount.
Originally posted by twinmommy38
Dark Energy and Dark Matter were invented by physicisists to explain the discrepancy in the mathmatical calculations of the mass and speed of the observable universe which were not even close to what the formulas said they should be. There just is not enough "stuff" to provide the needed gravitational forces to make things act like we observe them to act. If the "lensing" phenomenon were proven, and it's subsequent corrections to the math were deemed to be an accurate way to interpret the images used in galactic calculations, it may be possible to create a formula for the universe that didn't include inventing stuff to make the math work.
Originally posted by GaryN
There are other methods than gravity for deflection of starlight.
" Light refraction by the Sun's atmosphere is calculated. As detected from the Earth, the refraction can deflect a light ray emitted from the Sun's limb by 13'' or a starlight ray grazing the solar limb by 26'' , an effect 15 times larger than the gravitational deflection."
Significant Findings Reveal No Gravitational Lensing in the Vacuum Space just above the Rim of the Sun.
"Historically, nearly a century of observations for gravitational light bending effects at the sun have always been noted to occur predominantly near the thin plasma rim of the sun, not in the vacuum space only a fraction of a solar radius above the plasma rim."
There is also planewave deflection at dielectric boundary layers, so if there are
plasma double layers around the solar system, there could be lensing there too.
I have also yet to see a disproof of Bahram Katirai and his idea that we have not only
distances, but the very nature of the cosmos all wrong. Errors added to errors, and
assumptions based on assumptions.
Worth a read, IMO.
Originally posted by XPLodER
it is my opinion that we can travel to the stars and to other galaxies,
if we get over the optical illusion of distence we may find that its a short "hop" over to the next system
kinda makes me think,
we could be on other worlds in my life time.
Voyager 1's current relative velocity to the sun is 17,060 m/s (61,400 km/h; 38,200 mph). This calculates as 3.599 AU per year, about 10% faster than Voyager 2. At this velocity, 73,600 years would pass before reaching the nearest star, Proxima Centauri, were the spacecraft traveling in the direction of that star. Voyager 1 will need about 14,000 years at its current velocity to travel one light year, therefore 40,000 years will pass before coming anywhere near other stars or planets. Voyager 1 is predicted to enter the interstellar medium between 2012–15, though some scientists say it will be in 2014. Voyager 1 is still the farthest man made object in the universe from Earth.