Dick Cheney a 'coward'

Harkin calls Cheney a 'coward' and criticizes 'backdoor draft'
"When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," Harkin said. "Those of us who served and those of us who went in the military don't like it when someone like a Dick Cheney comes out and he wants to be tough. Yeah, he'll be tough. He'll be tough with somebody else's blood, somebody else's kids. But not when it was his turn to go."

David James, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, dismissed Harkin's attacks.

scoop.agonist.org...

Respects,

[edit on 15-8-2004 by 1amc]

uh huh, politics as usual, attack the politician (more often than not rightly so but not the point ehre) and NEVER ever what ever you do you will NOT focus on the issues themselves! we simply cant allow that.


YAWN....someone wake me up when people get a clue.

COWARD is a nice term for mr. Cheney.....

Gee, again, rich people want to be tough with the draft, but they aren;t the ones who have to go. Or Bush, we all know about his military records. They were destroyed "accidently" by the pentagon. Again, the onl;y people who support the draft are the ones who are not affected by it.

I'm still researching this because it was revealed a long time ago. When Tom Harkin was running for his congressional seat in Iowa, he insisted that he was a fighter pilot in Vietnam and talked about his encounters with MiGs over North Vietnam. He was called out on this by Barry Goldwater and had to back peddle.

As I said, I'm still looking for some original reports, but until then you can read these comments from a newgroup regarding the incident. If you are patient, you can do a Google search on Harkins Vietnam service and there you will find much confusion to this day as to whether Harkin saw combat in Vietnam. In fact, he ferried F-4s from Vietnam to Japan for servicing and never flew over N. Vietnam airspace.

There's nothing wrong with his service, but there is something very wrong about mischaracterizing that service.

Discussion of Harkin's Deception.

More details as I find them.

This episode is covered on pg. 182 in "Stolen Valor".

[edit on 04/8/15 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by James the Lesser Again, the onl;y people who support the draft are the ones who are not affected by it.

I for one am FOR a draft, and I am in my early 20's, and thus among those most likely to get drafted. Why you ask? Well, first off, if we need the troops then we need them - it's as simple as that. I also believe it would be good for much of the population at large - it would give people a lot of skills, cut down on the obesity that keeps getting pegged on the US public. Also, there are many countries on earth where millitary service is required, and it hasn't hurt them. It would also toughen up a frankly soft America. Plus, what is so wrong with serving your country when it needs you? I say if we need troops, and can't recruit enough of them, then draft them.

Now before you blast me and say that I should join the millitary, I plan to when I am done school. I also understand that this is a free country, and any people either objet to the war or millitary service in general. This is why there won't be a draft, and why no politician in his right mind would implement a draft - it would be career suicide.

Overall though, I think a draft could be a good thing.

i'm with you American Mad Man.

Briefly stated, there are at least four exceptional reasons for mandatory military service of at least two years of active duty or a Reserve or NG equivalent.

1. It requires all able-bodied men to serve their country and thereby have a personal stake in the cause of freedom.
2. You have a populations of men who are already trained in the event of a national emergency.
3. The society benefits from having a population of men who have benefited from the discipline and sacrifice inherent in military service.
4. The military would have to depend less on women, thus enabling the military to raise physical standards and freeing more women for essental non-miliatary roles at home in the case of mass mobilization.

Not to mention that a two year stint for all of Americas youth would IMHO reverse the trend of "blame shifting" and the decline of responsibillity in America.

The US has a massive standing army by modern Western standards.. many of which are in Germany, South Korea etc... Rumsfeld is moving many of them back home or to Iraq anyway, so I think a draft is unlikely for the forseeable future. I knew a lot of guys who served in N.Ireland (as prof soldiers.. not drafted obviously), and they all came back pretty funky, its one thing to go off and fight a war, another to be embedded in long term civil strife. The draft would brutalise and propbably damage the long term health of swathes of the young American population, bad for the economy and society as a whole.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by James the Lesser Again, the onl;y people who support the draft are the ones who are not affected by it.

I for one am FOR a draft, and I am in my early 20's, and thus among those most likely to get drafted. Why you ask? Well, first off, if we need the troops then we need them - it's as simple as that. I also believe it would be good for much of the population at large - it would give people a lot of skills, cut down on the obesity that keeps getting pegged on the US public. Also, there are many countries on earth where millitary service is required, and it hasn't hurt them. It would also toughen up a frankly soft America. Plus, what is so wrong with serving your country when it needs you? I say if we need troops, and can't recruit enough of them, then draft them.

Now before you blast me and say that I should join the millitary, I plan to when I am done school. I also understand that this is a free country, and any people either objet to the war or millitary service in general. This is why there won't be a draft, and why no politician in his right mind would implement a draft - it would be career suicide.

Overall though, I think a draft could be a good thing.

If I may ask, are you for the government taking away guns from american citizans? Do you think it is a good idea that the government remove freedom of speach? Would you spport an admendment that forced everyone in the USA to go to a Catholic church to worship under penalty of law?

Wraith

While there are many good points for a mandatory draft...there is one MAJOR one against it...and that is the simple fact that in this country we stress Freedom above many things...

The current program of incentives (health care, housing assistance, college tuition, etc.) to join is more than sufficient to meet the needs of our armed services in their defensive role. In my personal opinion, if you need more men to do more agressive actions, in lieu of defensive, then you need to increase the incentives. This is the only solution if you are to remain a FREE nation. The solution of a mandatory draft would also meet the need, but by suffocating this freedom we hold so dear.....

The North Korean foreign ministry spokesman said it best when he described Dick Cheney as "mentally deranged".

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Briefly stated, there are at least four exceptional reasons for mandatory military service of at least two years of active duty or a Reserve or NG equivalent.

1. It requires all able-bodied men to serve their country and thereby have a personal stake in the cause of freedom.
2. You have a populations of men who are already trained in the event of a national emergency.
3. The society benefits from having a population of men who have benefited from the discipline and sacrifice inherent in military service.
4. The military would have to depend less on women, thus enabling the military to raise physical standards and freeing more women for essental non-miliatary roles at home in the case of mass mobilization.

I agree 100%...I think also it would create a more intelligent and diverse military too (not knocking the current one in any way)...Im in my 20's...work in LE...and if I got drafted...I'd go....

Well, if this was like WWII then I wouldn't mind being drafted either, but this is another Vietnam, which is something Bush has no clue about because he never went to war or reads. In WWII we free a country the people greet us with open arms, give us a place to stay if we need to, food, clothing, so forth. In Vietnam/Iraq, we "free" the country and we are killed and piss off the world.

In WWII it was to protect America for the Japanese and Germans had been attacking us with their navy/air force. It was also to defend our allies who were either under siege or already lost. In Vietnam/Iraq they never got within 1000 miles of us. Remeber, 9/11 was the Afgani's and Saudi's, not Iraq.

In WWII it was an honor and millions signed up for the army so they could become the American Hero. Vietnam/Iraq is us going somewhere to be the worlds corrupt police force.

Sorry, if this was like WWII I would probably have signed up already. But this is a Vietnam, and we all know how that ended don't we? Also, this is not even a war anymore, Bush declared the war over a few months ago. So how can i be drafted in a non-war? It isn't a war, it is just Bush/Cheney/Haliburton/Oil companies wanting to make that extra buck at the cost of the people who don't get a voice because they aren't billionaires.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Well, if this was like WWII then I wouldn't mind being drafted either, but this is another Vietnam, which is something Bush has no clue about because he never went to war or reads.

With all due respect, James, did you serve in Vietnam or WWII. If not, how do you know more than the President. During the Vietnam war I heard many young men say that if the enemy were only here, storming the beaches or marching up the Mississippi, they would volunteer in a heartbeat.

Well, guess what they're here and we still hear the same lame excuses. In many ways, this is like Vietnam, in many ways it is like WWII, and in many ways it is like no other war.

I'm really sorry that so much of the population still cannot understand Vietnam and how important it was to the eventual defeat of the ever expanding threat of communism. If nothing else could convince you of the importance of saving S. Vietnam from communism, it should be the incredible mass exodus of Vietnamese from the communist regime. If anything should convince you of the evil of communism it should be the massacre a million Cambodians.

There are probably a considerable number of Cambodians and Vietnamese in your community. You should seek them out and find out from them what those regimes meant to them.

Deny ignorance.


[edit on 04/8/16 by GradyPhilpott]

There is no such thing as a back door draft. When we signed up for the military, we knew it was a six year commitment. Even if only 4 years were served full time, the military would have a right to recall or keep us in for 6 years. A 'back door draft' doesn't exhist. It's just spin by those who don't want to serve the full commitment they signed up for, or spin by those who don't understand what the volunteer Army (and airforce, marines, etc.) agreed to.

Cheney isn't a coward, but he isn't the best choice for the 2004 Republican
Ticket either. Guiliani is. Just a Cheney fact for everyone ... he is AGAINST the constitutional amendment that described marriage as being for a man and a woman only. I used to think that he was really the president until G.W. came out with the constitutional amendment thing. If Cheney were really in charge, he never would have allowed that to happen.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Just a Cheney fact for everyone ... he is AGAINST the constitutional amendment that described marriage as being for a man and a woman only.

I'm against that too. There are better ways to address that issue that to screw with the Constitution. I'll get back to you on that. I've got to run now.

Harkin was right. Cheney is a coward. It's all good to send other people's flesh. When it came to him. He did EVERYTHING in his power to keep himself OUT of harm's way. Let him send his own children to Iraq. That'll never happen. He's also a hypocrit of the highest order. And to think I once respected him (when he was in my chain of command).

oh let me guess what Cheney response will be, "Go **** yourself."
Just like he said on the senate floor.

[edit on 16-8-2004 by TheBigD]