Things are getting bad.

Just remember, we are still better off than we were 100 or so years ago. We don't have to worry about the Indians! Now if all this goes to hell we can invade the elite and take back what is ours. What is it like 1,000,000 to 1?

Look at it this way, there will be lots of vacant mansions laying around for occupation! You might just get the home of your dreams after all.

I say screw paying for things with money, the barter system sounds WAY better anyway. And all the work you will be putting into your home, food, etc. will have a direct impact on your quality of life rather than working long hard laboring hours with little to no pay. You can work for yourself and not ANYONE else if you simply want to. I see this as an opportunity. SURVIVAL skill classes self-taught are free folks!! Learn them now.

ATS is a great place to start. Let's get ready.

we are still better off than we were 100 or so years ago. We don't have to worry about the Indians!

Yeah you do!! except now, they are ACTUALLY in India!! hahaha

I am reminded of some old adages:

"Money doesn't buy happiness"

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

No, f*ck that, I'm calling out the elite. Money may not buy happiness but independence bloody well does! Most people on this island Earth don't want to be rich, they merely want the ability to provide for their family and themselves. They want their basic needs provided for by their own hard work and fair pay. May you all be damned corporations, where you pay shareholders more than you pay your own staff, the people making money for the leeches with more money than they know what to do with.

We live in a world where the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many but mark my words and mark them well, the many are fed up.

camaro68SS,

Find some of those illegal immigrants that got mortgages. In 2005 Banks started giving mortgages to illegal immigrants. Find some of them, call Immigrations and get them deported. After they are hauled away get a crew and take their home apart.

Use the free material to build garages/homes and sell them.

They were a tool the Federal Government allowed in for you to use. Use them.


Here's another business idea for you since you are in construction. Build some guillotines. They will sell like mad.

Also look into the bomb shelter business. They are backed up until 2013, they have plenty of work. Anything agriculture is booming, everyone needs food.

Make large ponds and grow catfish. It's going for +$8 a pound. Why work when you can fish...be your own boss. First year would be hard before littleone's got big enough to sell, after that your rolling in money.

In California they are poisoning lakes that have Northern Pike..stupid California. Offer to the State a greener way to get rid of those fish. Get a boat and use one of them shocker devices they put in the water that stuns the fish. Scoop out just the stunned Northern Pike that California considers a nuisance....take it and grind them up for catfood. Start your own catfood company. California would pay you to take those fish away with a contract....its better than California's current method of poisoning entire lakes and ponds.

reply to post by flexy123

Sounds great..I realize there will be a cultural difference and I am trying to communicate with as many people as I can. I have some family there in Hildesheim and some other areas. I have a minor in German language and literature so I can understand a little..(that's been 10 yrs ago without conversing with anyone since..)

About the recycling/healthy eating/etc, we are totally that way now..to the point we are made fun of. So I'm not one of the "typical" Americans that is obese - eating fast foods..gross, I actually HATE fast food. We aren't TV watchers and would rather get out of the house to walk around town or go out to dinner. We are pretty private people and really keep to ourselves. I have two children 5/3, and hope that things will work out for them too. The weather will be welcomed too. We are sitting here sweating to death with this heat wave in the midwest..

I hope we get to go, but have some concerns over the whole process. We moved to southern Illinois from SF California and just moving here was a pretty big ordeal. I think our plan will be just to pack our personal belongings (pictures/some clothes/and important papers) and just go..smart idea or not?


If you have any other suggestions feel free to tell me!

reply to post by camaro68ss


If you have been studying economics, maybe you noticed how this happened in the first place? First -- massive deregulation allowed banks to gamble with tangible assets. Allow me to illustrate:

A man like you takes out a loan for 100K for a house.

That loan is valued at 350K. It is sliced and diced and sold off to dozens of different parties but the end result is that somebody buys a relatively safe 150K with the original asset as collateral. After all -- that asset is going to generate 350K over the next 30 years, right? Now the second party slices and dices the 150K loan into numerous parts which are worth 200K. It's still a great deal because the whole shebang is worth 350K over the next 30 years, right?

This keeps going on until there are 20 or 30 separate notes on the original 100K mortgage. Everyone has made money so far. Suddenly -- the homeowner defaults. What have they lost? They have lost the aggregate value of ALL of the notes. In many cases, this will amount to 1 million or more for every 100K originally financed.

Most of this default is on "funny money." It never existed. It represents a put and is still only secured by the original 100K piece of property. It is the economy of scale that turns 300 billion dollars worth of bad mortgages into 15+ trillion worth of "bad debt."

Now spin this around and take it back to the original bank bailouts in 2008: If I give a bum on the street 1 dollar, and he buys a hamburger, who gets paid? The burger joint takes a slice, the butcher takes a slice, the farmer takes a slice and the distributor takes a slice. At every step in this chain, someone is getting "paid" and they are using the money to pay their employees and grow their businesses. Along the way, something magical happens: A chain reaction from that original dollar makes its way through the economy at (or just above) street level, which feeds retail, construction, insurance, police and fire, doctors and hospitals, travel agents and so forth. All because 1 man received a dollar and bought a hamburger.

Now imagine I give this dollar to a billionaire. Where does it go? It goes straight into the bank. In the old days, the bank might have noticed their balance sheet had increased and loaned more money out accordingly. Today? They hold on and the dollar finances nothing.

At ground level, that dollar does 200 times its worth in work. At the top, it is just another dollar, unspent.

What have we learned? Banks preach free markets and capitalism, while their money does little or no work. Meanwhile -- its NOT socialism to bail them out of bad gambling debts, but it is to provide health care for the people who do all the work: Me and you.

You have been had. In reality, all economic movement occurs at or near street level. Very little is generated in the real economy at the very top. This is why the Bush tax cuts bought us 9 years of jobless recoveries.

The only thing that can save your construction business now is a lot of hamburger at the bottom, and much tighter regulations (closing loopholes) at the top. That can't happen, of course, because your elected reps are paid for in the tens or hundreds of thousands per man, by those at the top. Look up your rep on www.opensecrets.org... and ask yourself: In a crisis, who does he / she take a call from? You, or the law firm that represents the local mega corporation who donated 65K to his re-election campaign.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


yes i know how this started in the first place. Alot needs to be done to fix it but its not going to happen. we will kick the can down the road one more time. After this i think we have 1 to 2 more kicks left before the road ends.

I have read the last nine pages with a heavy heart, and I feel for all of you who have suffered because of America's inability to make a decision.

By that I mean you cannot simultaneously preach 'free market capitalism' AND bail out businesses, big or small, because they screwed up.

Either you believe the market will 'fix' itself, ie the lousy businesses die and the innovative businesses prosper, OR you believe that the taxholders should bear both the risk and the profit.

Neither has happened.

DO NOT GIVE UP.

Life, and this amazing country we live in, have a way of surprising us.

We have to be diligent, and remember that we are the world's marketplace, meaning that everyone stands to take a huge destructive downturn if we fail.

We are Americans, ladies and gents.

We can do anything we set our sights on.

We have a perspective and a deeply ingrained ingenuity that WILL save the day.

Perhaps we need reminding of how much we can accomplished when the chips are down: Russia beat us to space, we beat them to the moon. Japan ate our lunch in the 80's with state of the art electronics. We invented the internet. Germany took over Europe. We spanked them and stole their best thinkers.

Do not count yourselves or this great country out just yet.

When we hit a wall, we knock it down, and build a piece of art from the rubble.

Keep your heads up, we can and will overcome.

Those at the top make nothing.

They bet on the things we make.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
its sad to read everyones storys. it makes you really think about how well the MSM is covering all this up. Now that i think about it, i cant think of one person i know that is not stressing out about all this. Its sad

Well, I am sorry for your troubles.

I am personally not stressed out at the moment. I am on my second month on my new job. I just graduated a two year college welding course. I am not even welding. I went and took an unamed union test and scored high on the list.

The money sdoes not last though. I am currently buying a silver eagle, or bar, a week. For the hard times or retirement. Which ever comes first........I cannot lie though, I am a little worried because, like you I work for a "construction" contractor. The two jobs I have been working on are gov't funded buildings.....I hope the money does'nt dry up.

Everybody says the government needs to quit spending...............The problem there is, is that there are literally hundreds of workers on the site........No funding = no jobs........I believe that people do not know what they are talking about when they say, "quit spending".......We need a "little" spending for employments sake.

But anyways, all I can suggest is schooling and/or relocation. It is alot cheaper to live here in the midwest, If you can find employment.......One thing I have learned in my 32 years on this planet is..........Brain power works....
Oh and you really do not need three phones, internet, cable, 40,000 square foot home, car payments, truck payments, etc.(........not necessarily talking about you)

Anyways I am rambling on here. not trying to sound all crazy.......

I hope things turn around for you........Oh and by the way, Camaro.....Before I got this job, I had a 82 Camaro with a lumpy 350 and 295/50's on it. I had to sell it because of the oil situation(gasoline)...She got 9 miles to the gallon......What a bummer, one month later and I would not have had to sell it....

I have been in a hole, broke my whole life. I am definitely going to live within my means with this new job. No new payments......

Peace and be well....LJ01


ETA: After reading my reply again, I would like to make it clear that I am in no waly gloating about my current position. I would only like to add, ....

Life is what you make it....If you want to live like you have a few dollars to compete with the Jone's(neigbor and friends) then that is what it costs, a few more dollars......Well them, few more dollars adds up fast these days.......I am thankful for everybody's insight here on ATS (except for the local trolls...lol) And I am using what I have learned here to my advantage.(Or giving it my best damn shot anyways).....Thank you all......

i started a small scale prepping deal for myself. basically my goal is to keep stuff on the cheap and able to fit into my back pack. i have 2 magnesium fire starters and a flint stick firestarter thing. i have a 2 rat traps to catch small game if it comes to the point that is the meat source i will need to have to sustain myself. i grabbed a hand crank flashlight and 2 mylar blankets. i also got a 12 pack or ramen noodles and a bunch of clothes in my backpack. everything listed previously is in my pack. o and i got an assortment of seeds so if i need to i can grow my own food for survival or trade. i mean this is extremely small scale and everything i have bought has been under 50 bucks. the most expensive thing i have is my flashlight and it was like 15 bucks or so. and i live in illinois but my family and where i grew up is in indiana. i dont do it all the time but i run scenarios through my head. if shtf today what would i do would run here to pick this up and get what i can then head to the family farm? to i grab this or do i go to this store for this? what scenarios i run are when utter chaos hits the country and people are looting the stores for anything they can get to survive and what i would get is things i dont have right now that i would need or would make it easier on my family to survive. i feel that this debt crisis is the begining of the end of this economy. and the president knew it was going to happen and this debt deadline is just the catalyst to get it going. i would rather if it is going to happen let it happen right now. i will take this burden and i will survive through this so that when i have children they can grow and prosper and never have to live through this like i had to. let it happen let me deal with it and lets get this collapse over with!

Hang in there OP.

They arent going to stop until people stand up and say something,we need everyone to realize this,that actually cares about our future and well being.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
But I want them to live a “normal life” as long as they can because we don’t know when this “normal” will be taken away from us. That’s why I like to get it all out here.

THIS is what TPTB completely forgot to factor in. The catastrophic disconnect that has occured within the individual classes. Those people that you "shield" from the realities of the world are so used to living in the excess and we (I say we because I'm only 21 and am a part of this generation) have become the ME generation. Filled with thoughts of entitlement.

I NEED the newest cell phone
I NEED the newest cable package
I NEED the newest computer
I NEED a degree
I NEED this $5 coffee from Starbucks

All the while our parents have been taxed up the behind like no tomorrow and conditioned through the most ridiculous policies, taxes, penalties etc. etc. into accepting these atrocious practices of "Authority", "Law", and "Government" (yes, all 3 are VERY different though they overlap on many parts) as acceptable reality just because "it's the law" or "the status quo".

New's flash, "Laws" equate to fallacy in the end.

There's a serious confrontation on the horizon... and the scary part is the kids who are 18... 16.... 12.... are FAR worse than people my age and a few years older who are trying to assimilate into "the real world". The younger you go now the more narcissistic and self centered the generations have become... even going down to children in jr and sr kindergarden.

Think about it...

reply to post by camaro68ss


I'm sorry this is happening to you. I work in an accounting office and am part Office Manager, part staff accountant. MANY of our clients were in the construction industry. Needless to say, we lost a lot of clients because they were going through many of the same things you are.

Our business has shrunk considerably. I started here four years ago with 10 people in the office. All but me were accountants. There are now 5 of us and one is a human resource manager for a new venture my boss went into. Essentially, our firm went from having 9 accountants to just 3 (and a 1/2 if you count me). This is indicative of how much our business has shrunk. The VAST majority of our clientele is small business. They can't seem to stay afloat.

One of our clients just told me the other day that he went from bringing in over a million a year to barely tens of thousands a year. How sad is that?

Personally, I am not experiencing financial hardship. But I am single with a live in boyfriend and roommate who split rent and utilities with me for the last 3 1/2 years. I have no children and am an amazing saver. So I don't have many factors that would have made me susceptible to the crash. My ONLY saving grace is that I am not only amazing at my job (to toot my own horn), but I also have taken many steps to advance my knowledge about the world of accounting compared to knowing ZIP when I first started so my boss couldn't really afford to replace me.

Anyway, our friends, who are a couple with a 3 year old, have not been living in Boise for the past few years. Scratch that, until recently, he has been the one traveling the country with a business that renovates historical buildings. He would be absent from his family for months on end. There's just no work where we are. He can't pass up making over $30/hour only to come home and be lucky to find a job making $10/hr. She finally moved with him to Kansas because she couldn't stand the distance relationship anymore. This means they have both removed themselves from their support structure (family and friends) all for the sake of staying afloat in these hard times.

Originally posted by lostsock
Rough times are everywhere it seems and its easy to let them get to you.

About 3 years ago my father bought a mobile home and we put it on our property and he and my cousin share the expenses. To cut costs even more we share internet and the water. We ran our own pipes and wires all under ground. Then we use Vonage to save even more. I cook for both households.. all 7 of us! My husband our 2 sons, my father, my cousin and my brother. No dinner costs more than $10. or $12. to prepare thats the only rule we have. We have a big veggie garden for fresh produce and chickens for laying eggs. Ive learned every possible way to stretch a dollar when it comes to preparing food!

Here comes my venting part. I am the only one working and it drives me crazy sometimes. My father gets his social security as well as my cousin (she is Autistic) so they have a small cash flow, just enough to pay for their lights and car insurance and some necessities. My brother has been looking for work since he moved here in February and my husband has been looking for 2 years. There are just no full time jobs or part jobs or part time jobs to be found. So we cut lawns and collect scrap for recycling and cut out ALL spending for non essential items. Accept for the internet. That is everyone's main joy. I just get so stressed out carrying the burden of 6 people on my shoulders day after day, and if they do stop social security I have no idea what we are going to do since there is nothing left to cut out of our lives. My job is crummy but Ive been working for 4 years at an old country store 3 miles from my home, its not much when a family of 4 has to survive on $15,500 a year but we manage,but if it gets any worse I don't know what we will do.

My hat is oiff to you!! For what its worth you have my respect and admiration.

What I don't understand is why the people that are out of work, don't just storm their state capitol and demand that their government stop doing business with multi national global corporations. There are 20-25% unemployed, scare the politicians. People won't take it anymore. Any company that wants business in their state should also hire in their state. Get all their money out of the Chase, Citigroup, BofA, etc.. banks and put it in a state managed bank with requirements for investing in their state. Like north Dakota. Why is it that we continue to support and give business to companies that are destroying America?? The people need to start asserting themselves. Don't blame the government, the government is just a tool used by the largest of corporations to wield control over the economy. It seems as if every politician that getrs elected always turns to the dark side. So hit the corporations where it hurts, that is all they understand. As this country gets poorer and poorer, our money and business becomes less and less relevant to those companies. people need to get started now. Boycott big business!!

reply to post by Nastradamus


Good post, especially from someone only 21 years old. Yeah I have considered that in light of a SHTF scenario. The thought of how such a selfish generation (and not just the young either) tha tis used to only living in excess as you pointed out, is beyond disturbing. Think how can so many people living like royal compared to rest of the world, in what manner of reactive behaviour they will exhibit at a real collapse and depression. I see things on the brink currently, so conditions are deteriorating but still reasonably normal. Credit, QE, easy money and so on have allowed the artifically inflated economy to continue, but a day of reckoning is at hand, and it's not only the US.

maybe things are different here in canada but I never knew there was a financial meltdown happening. Im far from elite, cant afford a house here in BC, but i work pay my bills, save what i can, eat damn well and on and on it goes. Are people complaining their social assistance will run dry? wouldnt be the first time welfare and leftist ideals bankrupted and country, so ya yur gonna see a conservative trend towards providing for those that make an effort to provide for themselves. Re education is key, no more high paying jobs for those without diplomas thats for certain

reply to post by JakiusFogg


These day's moreso than ever, it is about Big business and Big Corporations seeking the maximum profit wherever it may be in the world. Since their allegiance is not to any host nation, but the almighty Dollar, Peso, Chinese Yuan etc, whereever their business brings them, then why should any citizen hold allegiance to any country either?

Why should we American's pay any taxes whatsoever toward the military in this country when it only goes to protect the financial and economic interests of these treasonous titans in their trade adventures across the world?

The answer is we shouldn't and we should bring all troops back to safeguard our borders. Not to make Wall Street and Big Corps Bigger and richer at the expense of everyone else.

The only way things are going to change, is if governments collapse, because those same titans along with politicians are in bed together.

The irony though, is that is their plan, as has been evidenced by their policies for the past 30 years, so they can reshape the world in their view and gain even more power.

I'm not a practicing Christian, but do remember a quote that sticks out in the bible from my younger years. "Do not become attached to the people or governments of this world" With that in mind, I don't need to care nor worry about what happens since its the same old same # that has been happening for thousands of years.

History repeats itself over and over, with no lessons ever learned. From the corrupt Egyptian Government, Roman Government, Great Britian etc to today, we have not evolved as a better species but stuck in the same grade. Stuff does not make you a better human being, but the media and corporations would tell you otherwise.

For those into esoteric theology and astral projection, I think the Earth is a fixed dimension where you graduate after many incarnations when it is time.Which explains why nothing has ever changed on this earth and the lessons get repeated over and over for everyone until they learn and move on when it is time.

The Earth and its inhabits are stuck at a fixed grade level, or dimension an this is where you stay until you break free.

I think this crisis may one day redefine America.
We have been a very selfish country for so long.
I live in North Carolina and we are probably one of the hardest hit states in the Union.
In the short term if the worst case happens people will act selfishly and possibly violently.
But maybe long term this is what we need.
Something needs to wake us up.
On another note.
Chickens and goats.
Both are self sustainable.
And give eggs,meat, and milk.
And can use very little space.
But know this country boy loves each and every American.
And i will fight for you, and beside you.
God speed.

It's nothing but propaganda. Something will be passed the day before the deadline or the day of. Same case scenario as when they pulled the "Government shutdown". They will pass something at the last minute.

Even so, if nothing get's passed we are allowed to keep asking for "extension's" on payback for a 10 year period.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


This is correct and I believe intentional.

The actions seen so far involved blowing a huge bubble (increasing the velocity of money in the world economies) and they did that by using real estate and phoney financial documents as the means to deliver, not just in the USA, but all around the world. Then they pulled the plug as they said they were going to do in late 2007 at the Bilderberg meeting.

So now they blew the bubble so they could take everything everyone has and as a consequence, the velocity of money at the bottom 90% has evaporated. Currency is the lubrication of functioning economies and they have taken that away which is why we are where we are today. Banks and Big Corporations are holding on to the money and not lending nor investing, whom accounts for the majority of the wealth in the world.

They are being played like a finely tuned orchestra and the outcome down the road is not going to be pretty for them either.