Things are getting bad.

You are basically seeing Henry Kissinger's foreign policy finally showing for what it is. CRAP. The Communists took, they revamped in both Russia and China. They modernized at Western expense and manipulation and now we have no factories, no intellectual property that hasn't been stolen, and barely have our agricultural and natural resources. That is where I have drawn the line in the sand. IF the communists think they are going to steal our land, after draining our bank accounts, they are going to have to fight for it. I could care less about peoples homes including my own. That has always been an illusion since most people's homes are not paid off and then you still have taxes. But once the invasion begins, then also conscription begins. At some point, all things must fight to survive and Americans have been lulled into wasting resources on Iraq and Afghanistan as the real commercial and industrial power houses (India, China, Russia and their pawns in Iran and elsewhere) have flourished un challenged. What good is your Chinese LCD TV part of the profit of which went into the Chinese Red machine? It is of no use. What is of good use is the millions of acres of resources we have in the United States. Come and get it over our dead bodies. And I know that is what they plan to do but will ultimately fail.

Soon you will be given a choice. Conscription into the field army, or starvation. If you have bought into the US Government/ Wal*Mart way of getting fat, getting a check, getting a motorized scooter, not knowing anything about how to cook and live off the land, and how to organize your families and friends, and how to fight for every piece of dirt we call home, then I am sorry for you. The best you might get is a government box as well. But a lot of us are not going down without a fight. If the government wants to lead that charge by doing things the right way and according to the Constitution fine. We have always supported that. If they choose to lay down for the communist invasion, we won't support that. Our lands have all the resources we need to eventually come out on top. In the event of a total melt down, will a lot of people get hurt? Sure they will. We all came into this world with not even a shirt on our back or a guarantee we would breath. Ultimately, that body became the only thing housing your spirit. But the body and the spirit became dead and is dying all around us. The body became polluted and the spirit polluted both in turn dragging each other into a coma.

The best thing you can do is ANYTHING to break out of that coma. ... and if you lose that struggle in the end, are your prepared to meet your maker? If not, why not? Your maker sent you here without any guarantees, without any clothes on your back, without anything more than an idea in a skull of mush and a spirit to guide you. You might want to get back to the basics anyway no matter what your level of wealth and comfort.
The social compact is not a motorized scooter. We were designed to live until we one day die in our sleep or are killed in battle. We were never designed to use a Wal* Mart scooter. You fell for that, and it is going to kill you the immoral way and the undignified way.

Question:

Is this true, or deception of some sort (TPTB hoping to benefit from seeded optimism)?

www.reuters.com...

I am always skeptical when I see articles like this claiming that things are improving (I don't see it).

I have been preparing for a possibe economic fall. My government is not out for the people therefore they are anti american in my opinon, realizing my government is anti american I have been stock-piling can goods,seeds for my garden, some medical supplies, water reserves, ammunition, next I will get gas, . I started a little late preparing so if the SHTF within the next couple months I will ba lacking a few things. Otherwise Im mostly ready. Good luck to everyone, stay indoors if civil unrest should occur, let the chaos ride itself out, then watch out for the military, because martial law will be inforced if revolt should happen. Good luck my fellow brothers and sisters across the globe we are entering a very trying time in present times.
You know something I havent heard mentioned, if the SHTF and after the chaos and things start to settle, how would the survivors, or the rebells against the Cause(nwo?) unite together? Like us here on ATS, bringing like minds to gether in bad times brings better outcomes.

reply to post by zatara


Oh crap. I had to read your post twice to make sure I hadn't imagined it, but are you attempting to imply in a subtle way that this is (the WORLD financial crisis) or was put into motion on purpose? I have enjoyed reading this thread not because of the sad stories but because of the level of support and assurance you folks have lent to each other. But this observation by Zatara is interesting. It might be a bit off topic, but you made me think of movies such as Deep Impact and Contact where world governments coordinated in secret and spent vast fortunes of money on projects (doomsday for one, research for the other) that were kept out of public knowledge by the careful use of cover-ups and misdirection. Pretty thought, that......

I think all this talk of an economic collapse is just scaremongering, It will never happen, and even if it did, civil unrest? give me a break. Sheeple are too meek and scared to stand up to the authorities.

If it happened people would just whine like they always do, complain endlessly like they always do, and we will put up with whatever crap they choose to feed us. There will never be riots in the streets of America no matter what happens. People just dont have the collective balls for it. Most people talk big but are very small on actual action.

As for all the people who cannot cope with their debts, this is caused by either their own bad judgement or by irresponsible lending. Just because a large amount of people have ended up in this situation doesent mean its some kind of injustice or somehow the governments fault. Too many people lamenting and pointing fingers instead of trying to actually do something to help their situation.

Are those of us who are doing fine supposed to fork over more taxes so that the jobless, morbidly obese mullet crowd can contnue to sit around whining about their debts in comfort and at our expense?

Originally posted by stevooo
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

try to keep your guys busy man. run adds on craigslist for pressure washing & painting. send your better looking guys door to door if you have to. good luck man... i run a pretty decent sized retail store(home game room, (bar supplies), we are pretty busy, i hope it stays that way 4 the next couple of years.

You by chance looking for any experienced retail salespeople? If so, I'll forward my resume! No joke.

I like the avatar, by the way!

I feel your pain. I use to work offshore as an engineer and made good money doing it. Back in 2009 I lost my job and it took a few months to find another one. The one I found was only 15 miles from my house but it was doing security. To adjust from 86k to 22k was a kick in the nuts. I continued to apply with companies offshore then the Oil spill happen. Now offshore is dead. So back in 2010 I applied for a job as a Painter at a shipyard that deals in only Government contracts. I got the job in January 2011 and its about twice what I was making dong security and about half what I was making offshore.

My wife left me the day before I got my painting job. I am to blame for most of it but the Economy has played a huge part in it.

Now the job I have now is in Jeopardy if they don't raise the debt limit many more will lose their jobs real soon but if they do it's just putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.

I have been awake since 2004 and preparing since 2007.

I think most here see the writing on the wall. The sad part is most wont subscribe to what must be done to restore this republic.

We have to be more engaged in all levels of government. We must hold them accountable and keep their feet to the fire.

If we the people cannot get this country back and end the fed we may be left with no other choice to abolish our current forms of tyranny and institute a just form of government that is bound strictly by the principles laid out in our constitution ( with some minor changes of course ).

To just summarize the 2 clauses in the constitution that has led to this tyranny that needs to be modified:

1. the commerce clause.
2. the general welfare clause.

Those 2 clauses have lead to the tyranny that we now have. How?

Well the Commerce Clause let's the federal government (corporation) control all forms of what ever the consider to be commerce.

The general welfare clause has created an dependent nanny state where we readily trade our Liberty for Security.

I have been thinking about running for US Senate as a Libertarian winning would be nearly impossible but just maybe the people would have awaken by then. Personally I don't think this country will be stable much longer.

We have mob lootings at walmarts and soon it may be happening in your neighborhoods.

Hungry people will do very desperate things. So we had all better be preparing.

I will be writing a thread soon about the 5 pillars of preparedness until then you may visit: www.mspreparednessproject.org... you can click on the Learning center link to learn more!

So keep your heads on a swivel and check your 6. Rough times lie ahead...

Good post OP and we all could use a helping hand. There are still rich people out there and the way i see it we havent bled them dry yet.Offer any services they need landscaping, washing cars, oil changes,walking pets, house sitting..... think outside the box do things that you normally would'nt do. I am a electrician by trade actually i just about do everything im more a Tradesmen I can do it all. When the housing market bubble burst a few years back ever since then finding work in my trades has been difficult.I have a part-time job at a local drug store for a mere 150 bucks a week at about 35 hrs which is where my hatred of big corp comes from. I Hate that it but its guaranteed something.If i dont find myself working 30-40 or more hrs doing building landscaping washing cars or something a week im in the hole and cant eat.Ive been doing this for over a yr now and living the south east usa. Not many people nor very much money in the local economy thats why we gotta favor the rich for work.

As for credit and debt and such people are talking about....... Hello whats credit or debt going to get you when the banks collapse ?!?!? Why struggle to pay your credit cause they loom bad credit over your head and threaten you with that.... get the bills in needed to keep a roof over your head screw the credit card companies and such. I cut a lot out of my everyday luxuries like cable tv , a cellphone , and yes its hot but hell tell the power companies to shove it too. The sooner you can stray away from what our masters have gotton us used to the better off your going to be. My debtors are constantly coming after me looming bad credit over my head and threatening me. As i talk to their phone operators in most times seems like another country india or something...
The last phone conversatiion with a 2nd or 3rd party debt collection went kinda like this. Soo we see you owe 300 dollars on this detbt through this company in an indian accent. Hey let me ask you a quick question what country are you operating out of. I am in Orlando Florida sir in an indian accent. yeah ok whatever you say buddy. So are you going to pay for this bill of 300 dollars. No i actually am not going to pay that. Well sir you really have to pay that, what can we do to make it easier for you. How much do you make a week. Sir i only make 120 dollars a week and im not about to live out of a box to pay you off and i still have to eat and you know the prices of food now. Well how about you give us 20 dollars a week . No im sorry thats not possible either. Well sir how would you like to handle this. Frankly id like you guys to leave me the hell alone. Well we cant do that either sir. OK well let me ask you a question im sure you working for a multimillion or a multi billion dollar corporation what are they paying you ? no answer starts backing off slowly come on answer me what is your compensation. Sir i cant tell you that living is very difficult right now yes i know this. I say soo Are you out to destroy my credit cause if thats the biggest threat you got make sure this is recorded cause you can play it back to everyone.I do not intend on paying back this debt cause its not worth my heartache over it the usa economy is in the toilet the banks are falling apart and living has gone through the roof what in the hell makes you all think im paying this amount of money to you. Are you going to throw me in a debt prison if soo bring it. NO sir laugh well i see you will not be paying this let me put down cant pay do to financial hardship.


How could these companies loom bad credit over your head when its an imaginary thing. Yes its very much interwoven with the current system but honestly people grow a backbone and tell them to shove it. The more people that dont pay these scumbags the faster they fall as well. Ive been saying for awhile now start researching ceos execs and such of big corporations there is just as much corruption there as the gov if not more. I wish when people riot too they go to the headquarters of these big corporations a few thousand strong and start banging on their doors..... how come this has or does not get done ? Gotta scare the piss out of all these people..... we have to get the point across to them that without us they are nothing we the people run the show from every aspect from gov to corps to just about everything. Grow your own food kill the food stores.... Use letters or mail again kill the cellphone companies....... catching my drift

Believe the problem with people is they cant say no... JUST SAY NO to everything. When we grow a pair the faster they will get the point. Credit and debt is nothing when it comes down to survival it has nothing to do with nothing soo start telling credit companies debt collectors NO means NO.

First thing is to understand, The Why,, and what is behind these things that are happening, so i will leave this in your hands to connect the dots, www.archive.org...

Download the PDF, and read and understand

good post.

I am in a wierd situation. I have a decent job that is actually fairly stable. We are currently with my in laws. Tried to buy a house last year, got screwed by the agent/seller after getting out of our rental. Since then we have started building a house, seemed like a good idea at the time, but not so sure now. the payment is going to be pretty high. I can afford it (currently) and it is on good property, but the future has me really worried. Also we haven't been able to save much. Had several health issues with the kids and wife, car breakdowns, etc. So moeny is going to be tight. Should close at the end of Aug....assuming that the entrie thing doesn't fall apart in the next 30 days.

Dude

We are seeing the end of times (Biblically).

I know a lot of anti-Jesus posters will come at me, but the Bible clearly states that these things that are happening and are about to happen are the birthing pains before the Lord God Almighty allows Jesus to return to take his children home.

I'm not crazy.

The wars in the Middle East, YES, they have been going on for hundreds of years; but watch Syria. The Bible clearly states that one day Damascus will be there and the next day it won't. Let that be a MAJOR sign for you.

Loong story short. Get yourself and your family into the word (the Bible). Pray, Repent, Live for Jesus!

Will things get better? Not immediately (financially anyway) but If God be for us who can be against us!

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul!

Good luck, stay strong and God Bless!

If any of you own a lawn, I would start up a gardening hobby right now. Learn how to grow vegetables. Eat them and give the extra to your neighbors.

Also, if your country allows it, the next hobby I would take up is how to keep and fire a pistol and rifle.

My dad is back on the range every week. He also knows what may come.

Me, I'm in Japan. All I have to worry about is the next big earthquake, flooding, or radiated beef because the government accidentally allowed the cows to eat radiated straw.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Perhaps people in the construction industry should have maintained their U.S. citizen employees, rather than laying them off in favor of less than minimum wage illegal aliens. By replacing the citizens, your industry helped to unemploy Americans, who's income became welfare, and you replaced them with criminals who subsequently send a large portion of their money to a foreign nation. How long did you guys think you could get away with this? Did you think your short term profits wouldn't have consequences? I find it funny that the cost of housing continued to increase, yet the labor force was mostly illegal slave labor. No "illegal alien" discount for homes build by illegal labor.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone in your industry. In fact, I hope it burns, and the guys at the top, who laid of Americans, starve in the streets. You people put your short term profits ahead of the country and the culture, and you've helped with the destruction of this once great economy. You're no different than an American company that outsources its jobs to India, China or wherever. Maybe you guys at the top should have taken a pay cut, or less bonuses, or perhaps, kept your U.S. citizens employed.

To be honest,

i am baffled how people propose a "possible economic fall".

Here is my story:

I used to live in the states for a about a decade, i have seen 9/11 happen etc...although "at heart" i am European and are now living back in Europe with my wife which is American.

What baffles me is the fear of people about a "possible economic fall".....because the economy was already SHIATE back 9 years ago....basically right around 9/11 when it got REALLY bad.

I have lived in Illinois and i have seen people laid off left/right...all the really big companies like Motorola, United Airlines etc. Working at temp agencies for SHIATE wage, health insurance was a luxury many did not even have.

Computer programmers and software engineers who studied for years..ended up in warehouse jobs, working for $9/hr without health insurance and were HAPPY they had this job....commuting from Wisconsin and other near states for a warehouse job w/o health insurance.

Later on i moved to TN which was way, way worse...while in IL a job for $10/hr was still kind of reasonable...in TN you were lucky if you GOT a job at all....and of course wage was way lower, $6, $7 per hour.

What i am saying: The economy collapsed LONG AGO with 9/11 a major trigger...so what else is there to fear? If anything, you probably were just lucky that it just got you recently..and not already 10 years ago.

As for Europe.....economy here not that MUCH better, still quite ok eg. in Germany....(if you found a job, that is)...but eg. really, really shiate here in Spain. But this also already for quite some time...not "in the future".

* What is the "solution"?

Well i am not really competent to give solutions for an economic crisis...i can only tell from my own experiences where the VERY HARD time while we were in TN, unemployed, did something good. Because i started to get into "internet marketing" (with all that free time on hand)....basically i am now being my own boss and not working for someone else. Not rich by a LONG SHOT...but it pays our bills.

They key is ADAPTION. Dont fool yourself and think that "employment" is a guarantee for anything, because it is not. In this economy things change from one day to the other. IF you are unemployed, use the time and see that there is something positive to it because it enables you to learn things you couldn't do before in a 9-5 job.

The worst thing you can do is sit back and "cry" because it is not constructive - or spend time crying about "the great job you had"..while not looking forward and DO something. Also, think about alternatives, maybe something you never did before...heck it could be something odd as writing a book or making a web site etc...which is better than sitting and whining about the past.

This would go too far now...but short: If you have a computer and internet you CAN make money....there are freelancer sites and similar....you can write articles etc....web design, data entry..offer services..you can hire really cheap people from countries like India/Pakistan which make web sites for ridiculously cheap...resell them..basically you can establish a whole business and make sh*tloads of money.

Heck you could call up business from the yellow pages up and down and offer them cheap web sites etc..etc... LOTS of opportunities out there.

reply to post by camaro68ss

Our current problem is rather simple. Since we have a very small manufacturing and innovation sector, the entire country is lacking the capability to grow.

Even though I hate NASA's new 'slow' direction, compared to the last, Obama actually did something relatively right. Space technology research and development is now being done by both the government and private sectors. Research is being done on technologies such as propulsion, thrusters, gravity control, reusable energy sources, defense weaponry, etc... Once the private and government sectors make necessary breakthroughs, the lost industrial sector will be replaced by an American exclusive space technology sector.

Within a matter of ten to twenty years, we will be looking at new forms of technologies that will evolve transportation, medical treatments, communication devices, information gathering, information sharing, and energy resources. All brought to you by American ingenuity, and based upon technologies and innovations discovered through the privatized space sector.

Irony, Obama will not be in office when the really good stuff arrives. Thank god.

While the Russians are celebrating the end of the space shuttle, they fail to realize the chain of events that will break open an entirely new American revolution.

Our future is quietly happening behind closed doors, and the world will be envious of what we are on the verge of accomplishing.

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Perhaps people in the construction industry should have maintained their U.S. citizen employees, rather than laying them off in favor of less than minimum wage illegal aliens. By replacing the citizens, your industry helped to unemploy Americans, who's income became welfare, and you replaced them with criminals who subsequently send a large portion of their money to a foreign nation. How long did you guys think you could get away with this? Did you think your short term profits wouldn't have consequences? I find it funny that the cost of housing continued to increase, yet the labor force was mostly illegal slave labor. No "illegal alien" discount for homes build by illegal labor.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone in your industry. In fact, I hope it burns, and the guys at the top, who laid of Americans, starve in the streets. You people put your short term profits ahead of the country and the culture, and you've helped with the destruction of this once great economy. You're no different than an American company that outsources its jobs to India, China or wherever. Maybe you guys at the top should have taken a pay cut, or less bonuses, or perhaps, kept your U.S. citizens employed.

Well thanks for throwing me under the bus and generalizing me. Here where I work we do full back ground checks and E-verify every person to make sure they are US citizens. Thanks for the support and wishing good on my well being.

Good luck

Originally posted by JakiusFogg

The last time this crap happened it took the second world war to kick start everything. But would that work now in this saturated market? I don't think so. but would it stop then from trying? hmmmm

I've been thinking about this too. These cycles are built in to transfer the wealth from the poor to the rich. "They" won't keep the cycle down too long because then the masses won't be creating wealth they can later take. There's not much left to take. They managed to take homes through the housing bubble and retirement.

"They" don't want a total collapse. It wouldn't serve the elite if people resorting to growing their own food and hunting.

The OP thinks cutting spending will kick start everything - no it won't. They only thing it will do is cut the small social service programs for the poor. These programs didn't create the massive debt. Defense spending and bank bailouts created the debt.

I don't see a WWIII happening. With bombs and jets, it's just not something labor intensive as it was during the great depression. Something else is going to happen which will increase economic activity while at the same time making a large portion of the population "unavailable". I could see a major natural disaster happening which would wipe out China/India. But who knows?

I feel for you, I was a subcontractor in construction. Got out before prices dropped to near min wage. I am only 40 but have been through many many downs...and ups. And no matter what...i still wake up the next day. I have learned money means nothing, its not an easy lesson. But once you hit "bottom" you will realize its just a perception. Material things will mean nothing...

I know in your position you feel guilt and fear, i wish i could tell you not to worry. But i can tell you one way or the other...you and your family will be fine. What will be will be.

In some regards surrendering is not a weakness but a strength.

reply to post by camaro68ss


I hear you brotha!

I also work in construction management, and although our company as a whole is blessed to be busy as ever, we're at the point at the project I'm working on where we have to start doing lay offs. We probably lay off roughly two to ten people a DAY!

Its sad because many of these guys I've come to admire, either for their hard work, their skill, or their ability to be an exceptional person.

I feel guilty, because I sit here in our nice air conditioned trailer, while these guys work tirelessly in the dirt or high up on a lift in the summer heat, only to hear at the end of the day that there is no more work for them.

It saddens me to have to lay off men twice my age, with families, struggling to pay their bills, while I make good money and go to a nice home, a hot chick and a dog.

I dont take it for granted for one second. Its nothing personal, and things could easily reverse. I suppose I shouldnt feel guilty for achieving this station in life, and neither should you OP. I have a feeling you're like me: a hard working man, who can thank himself for his success, but feel for your co-workers who aren't so lucky.

I wish there was some quick fix, but we all know there isnt. I hate to say it, but for the construction industry to take off, we need a massive natural disaster to give us a reason to re-build.

Good luck to you OP, and all of us who are weathering this storm. Let's also take a moment to be thankful for the good things as well

Originally posted by Daughter2

Originally posted by JakiusFogg

The last time this crap happened it took the second world war to kick start everything. But would that work now in this saturated market? I don't think so. but would it stop then from trying? hmmmm

The OP thinks cutting spending will kick start everything - no it won't. They only thing it will do is cut the small social service programs for the poor. These programs didn't create the massive debt. Defense spending and bank bailouts created the debt.

No cutting spending wont kick start anything but its what must be done. would you rather take a hair cut today or 6 months from now get beheaded and get nothing. the math is imposible and we will defalt if not next month it will happen a year from now when we have to raise the debt again or through hyperinflation to inflate the debt away