Why are kids taught in public schools to believe in next to impossible chance, rather than God?

Originally posted by darkredfish
first: hi anne!!

2nd: Ok, I am a hardcore evolutionist and I am catholic. *omg gasp*

Well I'm not gonna discuss my actual belief here. Wrong thread.

But to deny the theory of evolution - - is ridiculous IMO.

No, the poster has a good point. Why shouldn't alternative theories of life be taught in our educational system?

Actually the state of kanasas has made this a law. All schools must show the scientific theory of life (Evolution) and the Religous theory of life (Creationism)

Originally posted by darkredfish
Actually the state of kanasas has made this a law. All schools must show the scientific theory of life (Evolution) and the Religous theory of life (Creationism)

Which story of Creation?

Ya see - that's just it - - - they mean Christian Creation. Which is designating a specific religion - - which is against the Constitution IMO.

There are thousands of Creation stories. They could only be discussed and compared in an elective class of comparative Creation stories.

How many fact based theory of Evolution "stories" are there?

How about we teach the Terra Papers? That we are a Creation by a more advanced off planet race of Reptilians? Just as valid as any other story.

I do believe that all possibilities of how life was created should be taught. Just the basic theory that people believe God created Earth and mankind and leave it at that point only. it is easy enough to state it like that, and if the children have questions about it, to discuss it with their parents or local church for any further explanation.
The theory is just as plausible as any other.

reply to post by Annee


How many fact based theory of Evolution "stories" are there?

Thats easy zero!!!

As far as tour other question as to what type of creationism should be taught , that could easily be worked out .the point is that this is just as credible and more so than evolution.

reply to post by darkredfish


I would agree that just because there is controversy does not mean that the theory of evolution is wrong. No does it mean the theory of God is wrong. I think the two can coexist to many degrees. I think both views should be taught but to be objective they should be taught with the dissenting arguments as well. Not just for creationism and evolution but all subjects should be taught in a fair and balanced way so that all manner of thoughts on the subject are accredited. I would go further and say instead of just telling our kids they could be say the next president- teach them exactly how government is run instead of detailing who runs them. Teach them how to lead so they won't become followers.

Originally posted by mugger
Just the basic theory that people believe God created Earth and mankind and leave it at that point only..
The theory is just as plausible as any other.

Lets go with that...

reply to post by Annee


Yes, If we really wanted to be equal we would say the theory of evolution, along with the other 4000 orgin stories.

I can imagine it now:

Origins of life 1-2
Origins of life 3-4
Origins of life 5-6
AP Origins of life

*Must take 2 credits of Origins of life*




Yeah taht would work out great

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I choose to believe in Jesus, if i were to leave this world today, i would be happy to go home. I could spend the rest of eternity at Christs feet worshipping the one who saved my soul, and gave me a love and a friendship that i would never have known otherwise. One day brothers and sisters, we will all go home together, we will open our eyes there and this world will be as a dream.

Why can't God heal amputees?
The other day I watched a video of a little boy who looked about 4 years old suffering to death, bullet riddled...
I've seen a video the other week of a little girl with her jaw shot off crying ... bleeding... do these kids not deserve God's love? Do these children somehow deserve what they got?

Let me enlighten you and everyone else of "God's plan"....

Originally posted by MikhailBakunin

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I choose to believe in Jesus, if i were to leave this world today, i would be happy to go home. I could spend the rest of eternity at Christs feet worshipping the one who saved my soul, and gave me a love and a friendship that i would never have known otherwise. One day brothers and sisters, we will all go home together, we will open our eyes there and this world will be as a dream.

Why can't God heal amputees?

edit on 27-10-2011 by MikhailBakunin because: (no reason given)

God can, just he has too choose to do so.

He's very picky, or maybe he is just taking a very long nap.

reply to post by MikhailBakunin

Why can't God heal amputees?

He can. The question is would it bring him glory and would it bring souls to Jesus Christ? If the answer is no, then that is why he doesn't.

Some people think God doesn't hear your prayers, but that isn't right. You may want to talk to God but the question is. Does he want to talk to you? What do you do for him? Do you volunteer your time to help others freely and with a glad heart? Or do you pray for selfish reasons, for money or good health when you could pray for other people? If it is the latter then you know why he doesn't hear your prayers.

People blame God for all the evils that go wrong in the world. They say "if God exists then why doesn't he put a stop to all the bad stuff?". The answer to that question is: He gave man the free will covenant, if he stepped in to put a stop the all the evils in the world (most perpetrated by people) then he would break his covenant with man, and he isn't ready to do that just yet. Soon, but not yet. The soon being when Jesus Christ returns to put a stop to all this bs going on, his second coming, the first judgement day. Mankind is proving that he cannot be left alone or he will destroy himself.

Originally posted by Noey777
How many fact based theory of Evolution "stories" are there?

Thats easy zero!!!

You are wrong.

Originally posted by PhyberDragon
I think both views should be taught

Yes - - let's teach Theory of Evolution and the Terra Papers.

But there are a lot of animals that can regenerate limbs. Crabs can, but man can't.
So basically, God loves crabs more than man. No. Wait. Aren't shellfish an abomination?
So abominations get the 'gift' of regenerating limbs, but man - the chosen - can't?
God hates things that 'he' gave a gift of regeneration to?
Is this the 'working in mysterious ways' thing again?
God loves us, but wants us to not have the abilities of stuff he hates?
I'm very confused.

[Sarcasm] As for Darfur, Sudan, Eritrea etc., they probably aren't catholics. That's possible. Or Jewish. Or presbyterian. Or seventh day adventists. Or episcopalians. Or (gasp) evangelists (the current chosen people, apparently). Or whichever cult you subscribe to. Let 'em starve. They weren't giving any money in the collection plate anyway. [/sarcasm]

Darwin notices that finches who thrive on different foods have different beaks that are perfect for their chosen foodstuff, and they all have a common ancestor. Is it possible that these finches developed these beaks over time, adapting to their lifestyle and diet? Could they adapt to fit their surroundings?
No. A magical invisible thing with infinite knowledge and love just caused them to appear before/after (depending on your chosen cult) 'he' created man out of mud, and woman out of rib-cage. The scientifically minded among you will be taking notes.

If you're a thinking man or woman you're probably going to take a look at the first option and discuss the possibilities.
If you go straight for the second option...well, I did say thinking, didn't I?
You could ask that guy (unless you really are an episcopalian) with the dress on to read it from his book about bronze age stories. Very scientific, logic and fact based?

Books written in the third to sixth centuries, about stuff that might have happened 300-600 years earlier in lands far, far away, can't really cope with the logic of evolution.
Where are the koalas in Genesis? Noah builds an ark, and somehow also manages to get himself seeds to grow the right eucalyptus tree for koalas to eat whilst aboard. He gets those trees to maturity and then harvests the leaves and keeps them fresh. The koalas manage to get themselves to the ark - crossing massive oceans and land-masses (without getting eaten or leaving any fossil evidence) - wait for the waters to die down, then get all the way back to Australia without being predated, or making any fatal mistakes, while still managing to keep up their diet (which is very specific 'gum trees'). Kiwis probably made it from New Zealand too. A great feat. They don't fly, can't swim, and can barely walk properly.
But giants managed to live on regardless...Perhaps they were on the ark too... But wait, they were an abomination too. This God is very clever and sneaky. If giants lived in those days, and after, wouldn't they have to have been on the ark? I'm confused now. Didn't god flood the earth and kill everything? (This obviously isn't the time to get into waterfowl and aquatic animals - which were obviously sin-free).

God loves you, and he wants you to suffer because 'he' works in mysterious ways. This will be evident once you've died and then you'll then be assessed for all the 'sins' you've committed (and there will be many). Then you'll either go into a lovely place full of something nice, or you'll be committed to go to the pit of hell where one of his ex-minions (omnipotence didn't see this coming) will torture you for eternity.

I've got this right? I'm just trying to paint a very scientific and logical scene here. Why do naked mole rats have no hair, no eyesight, and live in holes? Because god loves man.

So. Where were we? Oh yes... God is all loving, but knows exactly what you are going to do and he'll judge you on what you did without preventing you from doing it. Even if it harms you.

Try telling a nine year old that dinosaurs don't exist...

Originally posted by darkredfish

Originally posted by mugger
Just the basic theory that people believe God created Earth and mankind and leave it at that point only..
The theory is just as plausible as any other.

Lets go with that...

NO can do.

Have you read the Terra Papers. If some omnipotent force is going to be taught - - - I want - we were created by repoid off planet beings taught.

Evolution is based in actual science.

Religion does not have a place in school. Period.

People are free to believe what they want, they can go to church every fricking day and worship their Gods as long as they want. You have that freedom in America, last time i checked!

So..instead of "bitching" how outrageous it SUPPOSEDLY is that in school (!) they don't teach a belief system like Creatonism...why don't you take your own children to church in your free time and teach them? But leave your religious beliefs out from school and try to convince others what YOU believe is right.

Originally posted by flexy123
Religion does not have a place in school. Period.

No - they don't.

Public school is for everyone - - - including Atheists - - - Native Americans - - - Wiccans - - and every other belief/non-belief.

When people here in America talk Creationism - - - NO ONE is Fooled by what they mean. They mean Christian Creationism.

If you want your kid to learn a specific belief - - - put them in a religious school that teaches it.

the fact that they do teach evolution in science class should be an answer in itself. its real science based upon the evidence we've found whereas there is no basis for teaching intelligent design. its too arbitrary.

why not also teach reincarnation? or that we may have come here from a comet? or anything else anyone wants to claim?

simply because teaching creationism is teaching a part of religion and religion does not go with education.

in a perfect world no child would be indoctrinated with religion and at the age of 18 they should have the freedom to learn about ALL religions and make a choice.

i bet you if that is the way you were raised you would think the whole story of the bible and creationism was a little wacky too

Originally posted by mugger
I do believe that all possibilities of how life was created should be taught. Just the basic theory that people believe God created Earth and mankind and leave it at that point only. it is easy enough to state it like that, and if the children have questions about it, to discuss it with their parents or local church for any further explanation.
The theory is just as plausible as any other.

Evolution is backed by evidence. Not a single religion on earth is. Maybe a general religion class would be a good thing, but how are you going to cram 100 different religious ideas into one class? It absolutely should not be taught tin a science class next to scientific theory that's proven to be true. Religion is pure speculation and should be taught as such. Evolution is science and should be taught as such. Religion is not knowledge, it's guidelines to live life.

Just the basic theory that people believe God created Earth and mankind and leave it at that point only.

So what's the point of having a class then? You could teach that in 5 minutes on one day. "Some people believe that god created the universe". End of story. There is no evidence or anything behind. It's just random beliefs that certain people have. It's not anything to do with learning or knowledge.

i bet you if that is the way you were raised you would think the whole story of the bible and creationism was a little wacky too

I couldn't agree more. The reason most people are religious is because their parents taught them as a kid and didn't give them a choice. It's selfish, if you ask me. They do it because they think their personal beliefs are more important than anyone else's. Kids should not be forced into any religion. They should be given the choice to follow what they want. Too many terrible parents out there teaching conjecture to kids as fact, and as a result they grow up doing the same thing. The smart ones will break the cycle and think for themselves, but the bond between parent and child forces most people to just go along with it. If mommy taught it to you it has to be true, right?

Flying Spaghetti Monster
"The Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) is the deity of the parody religion[1][2] the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Pastafarianism. The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" first appeared in a satirical open letter written by Bobby Henderson in 2005, protesting the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to permit the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to evolution in public school science classes.[3] In the letter, Henderson parodied the concept of intelligent design by professing belief in a supernatural creator that closely resembles spaghetti and meatballs. Henderson further called for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism to be allotted equal time in science classrooms alongside intelligent design and evolution.
After Henderson published the letter on his website, it rapidly became an internet phenomenon and a symbol for the case against teaching intelligent design in public schools.[5] Pastafarian "beliefs" are generally satires of creationism. They are presented both on Henderson's Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster website, where he is described as "prophet", and in The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, written by Henderson and published by Villiard Press in 2006. The central belief is that an invisible and undetectable Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. Pirates are revered as the original Pastafarians (a portmanteau of pasta and Rastafarian),[6] and Henderson asserts that the steady decline in the number of pirates over the years has resulted in global warming.[4] The FSM community currently congregates at Henderson's website to share ideas and crafts devoted to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Because of its popularity and exposure, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is often used as a contemporary version of Russell's teapot – an argument that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon those who make unfalsifiable claims, not on those who reject them. While generally praised by the media and endorsed by members of the scientific community, the Flying Spaghetti Monster has received criticism from the intelligent design community. Self-described Pastafarians have engaged in religious disputes, including in Polk County, Florida, where they played a role in dissuading the local school board from adopting new rules on teaching evolution.[7]"

So in a nutshell, if any of you believe it is okay to teach intelligent design then you're also saying it's okay to teach in school of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I rest my case