Need Help - Completely Ruled By Fear

reply to post by Cinquain


You have mail.

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

reply to post by Cinquain


Thank you too, since i always felt i wasn't understood or even understood myself, even by psychics, but reading your story and others make me feel not alone and gives me hope as well.

Anyway i'm going to try to give readings soon to other people, this doesn't evolve meditation, but merely a trust in what you are getting from spirit/your source or however you wan to call it. I decided that i don't have nothing to loose by trowing myself into the deep end, that is doing readings for others i only will loose my fear, you have to experience your fear and feel it in order to let it go.

People always keep telling me that i'm a very gifted medium, healer etc but to afraid to trust what I'm getting, that is fear of being ridiculed, persecuted etc. Maybe by doing that, the fear of going to a altered state will diminish and will bring me closer to reunite with my spiritual self. I know in reality there is no division in the self, but i guess what we are doing is clearing the window or removing the separation brought on by previous experiences.

A good exercise to do without having meditation involved is having conversations with yourself, At first it may sound stupid, but you might be surprised with the answers you are giving yourself back. Then you start to wonder, how do i know that, well it could be you are talking to your own inner self or guides. This might leed you to have less fear of yourself and might bring you closer to opening up to your inner worlds without going into altered states. Just try several things out that might work for you, exercises that don't involve meditation. I am starting to do this now, and like i said, i am starting to get surprised by my own answers.

Anyway i hope you get there, the more souls wake up and the more we help each other the more we bring a better reality to birth.

reply to post by erick1967


I have conversations with myself all the time! Not necessarily a full-blown conversation, but I'll think of something that has me stressed, and I'll go for a walk and talk about it quietly. I find that you're right - often I will come to a conclusion that I couldn't quite reach beforehand. Sometimes I attribute that to just having cleared my head enough to get the thoughts organized verbally.

I really wish you luck with trying out your psychic abilities, and I'm proud of you for being willing to lose your fear. Maybe one day I'll get to that point?!?!

Still putting off meditation

Friend:

I hope your day 14-7-11 was beautiful and full of insight from many areas of life.

The U2U's have been a great opportunity to know each other and converse, thank you!

For you, and the others that are "fearful", as stated in this thread you started. This thread may be of assistance:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I reply on...posted 12-7-2011 @ 05:00 PM. Page 38 for reference (my layout/settings).

To others who read and go further in search of...Please discern what is intuitive or resonates with you. Reject and do not judge what I present, or others... absorb and move forward. Please leave "EGO" out of how you respond to me. "I AM" not here looking for arguments.

Together we can come to a path that is good!

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

Your feeling sounds like the feeling of standing at the edge of a pier, ready to dive into water that you know will be very cold and take your breath away.
You have spent valuable time preparing, by meditating, and the like.
Decision time!
If you can swim - no problem!
That you know it will be cold - probably not as cold as you think!

Your imaginings of what will occur are outweighing your ability to just JUMP.
I say...DIVE!

You will not regret it.
Fare thee well
Akushla

Oh yeah...
Good to remember that 'fear' and 'excitement' have the same physiological reactions!
Are you afraid? Or holding off, because of excitement paralysis?
Akushla

Originally posted by akushla99
Oh yeah...
Good to remember that 'fear' and 'excitement' have the same physiological reactions!
Are you afraid? Or holding off, because of excitement paralysis?
Akushla

I like that, thank you.

I understand what you're saying, and though it's something I want, I still equate the feeling to fear - almost close to terror. You know the feeling when you're watching a horror movie, and the good guy's walking into a room you know the killer is waiting in - you feel like screaming at the screen "Get out! Don't go in there!!" - it's kind of exactly like that

Originally posted by Cinquain

Originally posted by akushla99
Oh yeah...
Good to remember that 'fear' and 'excitement' have the same physiological reactions!
Are you afraid? Or holding off, because of excitement paralysis?
Akushla

I like that, thank you.

I understand what you're saying, and though it's something I want, I still equate the feeling to fear - almost close to terror. You know the feeling when you're watching a horror movie, and the good guy's walking into a room you know the killer is waiting in - you feel like screaming at the screen "Get out! Don't go in there!!" - it's kind of exactly like that

Still the same physiological response.
You cannot ride a bicycle when it is standing still for fear that you will crash!
Keep moving and all your movement will be forward. You cant afford to waste time in what you percieve as fear, because everything you do and see will be filled with this fear. Embrace adventure...your 'trip' has been well 'planned'...not alot can go wrong...dive, dive, dive...
Akushla

reply to post by Cinquain


Why sit down to meditate when it seems like meditation just happens for you? You said in a previous post that your mind is empty while walking or doing chores, so why demand meditation?
Meditation is your natural state!
When we force ourselves to be a certain way that is when fear comes up. You most likely prepare yourself, cushions, sitting correctly and say now is the time to meditate, lol.

If you really want to sit and meditate and put time aside for this practice, when fear arises see that there is a knowing of the fear. The fear is seen, what is seeing the fear can just see the feeling, experience the feeling, the energy. Do not run from any feeling, where are you going to go to escape yourself?
The feelings and thoughts are like clouds appearing in the sky, if you watch them, just watch, do not resist or try to change them, they will pass by like clouds in the sky.
What you are is the clear open space like the clear sky.
Everything else is like the clouds that come and go.

Do not try to reason with the thoughts or feelings that arise, do not talk back to them, if you have to respond just say, yes ok, i see.
Then you can look for the thinker, look to see where the thoughts are arising from.
You will see that you are not making the thoughts or feelings appear, they just bubble up from nowhere.
They really have nothing to do with you at all, the only power you have is to see that they are not your fault.
When you really see this, you will not be bothered by the thoughts and feelings that appear.
And remarkably the thoughts and overwhelming feelings start to subside because they have lost power.

You will know yourself then as the still space in which the whole world appears.

reply to post by Cinquain


The fear is the fear of annihilation.
There is no one to annihilate.
There was no one there in the first place.

What you imagine yourself to be is just that, imagination.
What you really are is this ever present now.
You are the experience of life itself.

When we imagine the past and the future we don't imagine them empty we always have ourselves in the picture (the scene), we are the star of all our imaginings. But the past and future are stories about what is not happening, they are fantasies (nightmares, a lot of the time).
Right now is the only 'thing' that is real.
And you are always slap bang in the middle of that.

Its just like taking the build up to the drop on a roller coaster, only that you can't turn around on a roller coaster, just keep going and enjoy the fall (:

reply to post by Cinquain


Nothing unusual about fear drawing you back, but to hold onto the fear, to say "I am afraid", will leave you helpless and floundering in all areas of your life. You are not your fear.

It's like dying from an ego perspective. The sense of Separate Self is lost completely in the moment as the Universal Self is realized.

Don't worry though. You won't float away or anything. You'll be right back to separation but with a greater awareness of what lies at the heart of creation. It's a wonderful place to be.

Also you need to learn to face your fears now and let go, because when we start approaching more rapid spiritual awakening going on and you try to fight it out of fear and not let it happen you may effect yourself from ascension.

Friends:

Peace be with each and all of you this evening.

Here is another thread that may shed some "Light" for those that are in "fear".

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am open to U2U's as stated in the thread above. I just ask that you are open and operating from a base of LOVE.

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

Originally posted by Cinquain


Which brings me to this. Thank you for your additions to my thread, you've been a big help. I've been told by a few close friends who are fairly experienced with meditation that I need to embrace the fear. This is the thing I find most difficult to do but having heard it so many times now maybe it's the only thing I can do. The way you put it though really helped to ease my mind and I appreciate that. To be honest I've never really given a good attempt at pushing through my fear, or accepting and embracing it. I've always thought that if the fear gets too much, maybe I should stop as I may be doing something wrong for me - I thought meditation was supposed to be peaceful, not something that would bring me to the verge of a panic attack

Thank you!

The Ego is Fear. Fear is the action of separating oneself from oneself, or
the Avoidance of Relationship.
Meditation isnt about becoming nothing, it is about becoming Love/Bliss.
Yet even though Adi Da has explained it Perfectly it still remains nearly Impossible.

www.beezone.com...
TRANSCENDENCE OF SELF KNOT OF FEAR

Adi Da Samraj
2006

"as long as there is a self-contraction and presumption of separateness there is fear and there are no two ways about it".

Devotee: I've always been a fearful character

Adi Da: Well who isn't? It's very reasonable. Anybody who is in this situation, who is not afraid, doesn't have any awareness of what's actually going on. What you do about it is another matter. There is every reason to be afraid and if you weren't aware enough of the potential suffering in the states of conditional existence, then you wouldn't be motivated to transcend them. So as bizarre as it seems, there's a kind of grace in the sufferings that are imposed on us through experience.

Devotee: I always have a sense of fear both in the mind and body

Adi Da: You fear that?

Devotee: Yes.

Adi Da: Fear is inherent in the body in its separateness. The fear isn't yours at all. The fear is IN the self-contraction. It is its characteristic mood. It is inherent emotion. You could be feeling fear now and yet there's nothing dramatic happening at the moment that would seem to justify being afraid.

If you somehow or other bring to mind the potential of life difficulties in this moment or remind yourself of traumatic experiences you have had by remembering them and so on you can be remembering fear right now for no apparent cause which are entirely obviously subjective but nonetheless it's still the same thing.

It is the mood of self-contraction, the mood that is inherited in self-contraction in the presumption of separateness in the presumption of identification with the body as the position of existence. If you presume that it is THE position of existence, then you start puzzling over what do you do about this instead of some way to escape this. There hasn't appeared to be any apparent way to escape it and so fear becomes a confixed sensation. It becomes a chronic sensation in fact potentially. It's very disabling sometimes.

So everyone has experiences of one kind or another, just the mere fact of being alive and what had to occur in order for you to be alive, birthing and so on, plus all the experiences of a lifetime in fact as you suggested imbed fear in the body or the psycho-physical mechanism. This is fundamental to the condition of everyone here, of every human being here, of every living being although everyone is in a different disposition or sense of circumstance or state of mind in the present moment.

Nonetheless, all are sitting in a situation and everyone is in the midst of an activity in fact right now that is generating fear. Although generally speaking, people use various psychological devices to keep it subliminal or to generate diversions that keep them from feeling fear. They try any kind of intoxication to avoid feeling this. They even use intoxicating means as diversions of life, experiential means to divert attention through circumstances of different states of mind of emotion of body that de-sensitize themselves at least temporarily to the fundamental fear that is at the root of this bodily sense of separate existence.

This is not therefore merely a characteristic it is the actual state of everyone and it is therefore something that is right there, right in front of you. Everyone is always sitting in it and how much of your life you want to waste diverting yourself from it or consoling yourself and so forth or how much you want to intoxicate yourself is up to you. But you can't really get rid of it because it's inherent in the presumption of identification with your present situation. The state of separateness and brevity, change and inevitable death of this body.

You cannot escape that....you cannot escape fear unless something fundamental changes about your understanding. Through the experiencing of existence itself you cannot get rid of fear. There is no intoxication, no diversion, nothing that will de-sensitize you that is anything but temporary. In the long run any diversion is ultimately destructive the the process of understanding and any kind of balance and well-being or clarity. So you rightly if you consider the matter clearly have to address this fundamental matter directly. There is nothing you can do about it except whatever it is that utterly transcends the root presumption that is the cause of it.

Is there an understanding and a realization of existence that is free of the root conditions that you are experiencing fearfully? Of course there is and I'm telling you what it is. But don't misunderstand me. There is something about fear that has a practical value. Without it you wouldn't do what was necessary to protect the body under various natural circumstances that require an immediate reaction. For the sake of safety you wouldn't want to be so benumbed in the midst of daily life that you couldn't react to something dangerous and get out of the way. So, there is also something very practical and useful about fear in its moment.

Take cats for example. Cats are very sensuous creatures, walking or rubbing themselves, purring away and so forth. They look like they haven't a care in the world but (finger snaps) just like that, something comes up that requires a reaction - a mouse that they can enjoy tormenting (audience laughter) or anything requiring a sudden reaction they are immediately sensitive to the situation. The situation, which has a fearful characteristic and so much sudden energy and chemical changes in it. They're always ready. Zap! (Finger snap). They do it and then in the next moment they're perfectly calm again.

So this kind of capability for fear is certainly not something you would want to have tranquilized to the point where it was no longer available to you or you wouldn't be able to function safely in the midst of ordinary things. That's not a kind of fear that one would rightly want to get rid of unless one is just an addict of some kind who wants to be totally dysfunctional.

But apart from that practical usefulness of fear, the fear you're describing is a kind of philosophical of philosophically significant condition. It's the noticing of the fundamental condition in which you are living. The Way I have given you all is the way and the means for transcending just exactly that. It's not a diversion or a way of being addicted to some manipulation of the body mind that just makes you feel good.

Take the practice of meditation and the common practice of it. You think that's bliss. That's no more bliss than an orgasm is bliss. It's that kind of bliss if you want to use the word for it. In other words, it's a temporary state of pleasure in the body. It has nothing to do with transcending fear.

It is simply an experiential diversion that covers it, so the kind of self-manipulative games people play that have the look of meditation or religion about them are devices, techniques. It is by these techniques people divert themselves from experiencing reality. Reality in the conditional sense is inherent, fearfulness, it's inherent danger, it's inherent mortality so the common form meditation isn't worth squat.

It's nothing more than relaxation. It's just another form of self-pleasuring. It's a technique and it's temporary and if (Adi Da exhibits and blissfull meditation pose...laughter from audience...and says....) everything is just so sweet..... you know and you were suddenly tapped on the shoulder by something with a mouth on it about this big (huge laughter from audience) and you're going to be immediately returned to your inherent sensitivity... too late....to inherent fear.

There are states that are meditative that look like that so I'm not mocking them entirely, but on the other hand, they have no ultimate significance whatsoever you see.

It is only in moment to moment realization, moment to moment practice, moment to moment renunciation, moment to moment realization that understanding takes place. This is all that works and nothing else does. All the rest is a diversion, a hoped-for pleasurable distraction.

Have you had some experiences recently that were traumatic? And this feeling has even created a kind of fear reaction built into the body that you're afraid of now? You're afraid of being afraid of being afraid but it doesn't make any difference whether you're afraid or you're afraid of being afraid or you're afraid of being afraid of being afraid or you're afraid of being afraid of being afraid of being afraid or on and on to the inth degree. It's still the same and you have to do the same thing about it and why add a lot of imagination to it.

Fear is all the same and it is completely justified. You have every right to be afraid. (laughter) You're in a position which is completely justified to be afraid and there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be so. You're quite happy about the fact (audience laughter) of it, behaving and feeling quite normally. You appear quite normal to me. There's nothing wrong with you. You are completely well my son. (Laughter and applause from audience).

But if you're seriously asking the question about fundamental fear itself, I've given you is my address to that question which covers the totality of your life. It's not a bunch of myths or things for you to believe that is somehow supposed to make you feel that fear is justified and everything is just okay you see.

No. Everything is really not okay. See? But that's a fact only from the point of view you are presuming and that is what must be examined and transcended and not by merely thinking about it. You will think about it inevitably but that's not the way.

The way is exactly as I've given it to you. Which is to practice, do sadhana, and that's exactly what you should do about it. This should be done moment to moment. In other words, endeavor to be constantly doing this sadhana and developing the real process of it instead of remaining at the beginning of it forever, simply bound in unsatisfactory states. Enter into the real process whereby they are understood and ultimately transcended by spiritual means.

Sadhana proves itself. Do the sadhana consistently for real instead of doing something else which is like sitting around and hallucinating your fear more and more. Don't waste your time turning the faculties on themselves. Turn to me and practice instead of wasting your time doing what is unproductive about it and trying to get rid of something you cannot get rid of, spend your time doing as I've instructed.

Embrace Me and enter into the process of communion with me whereby you will utterly transcend not just the feeling of fear because it's inevitable in this state here but transcend the very state you are presuming to be in.

The sadhana of this way when rightly and truly understood allows the domain of reality itself, the divine domain of reality, that transcends conditionality, to Shine. That activity which makes all illusions including fear seen for what it is. As long as there is a self-contraction and presumption of separateness there is fear and there are no two ways about it. It's inevitable. It's inherent, so transcend this (raises fist clenched). The way is the way of transcending the self knot, the self-contraction which is not just something somewhere inside the body.

It's the totality of the body mind that is participating in this and that is reflecting this act. This is what must be gone beyond. This knot IS fear, is also separateness. It's the feeling of difference. It's the feeling of relatedness. It's the presumption of being identical to the body, or the body mind limited by, limited to it, limited by and to all of the ordinary appearances of conditional existence all of which pass and all of the grosser appearances of human existence all of which are mortal.

The transcending of this is in fact something you enjoy in some rudimentary sense in sleep. You are not here asleep basically anyway. At the moment you are in the waking state self-contracted as the body mind. You are asking me this question from the point of view and position of feeling identical to the body and its potential, its memory and so on.

But when you are asleep you don't ask these questions and you don't make these presumptions because after that ..there are dream state conditions. In that particular dream state condition the person was not feeling mortal or depressed or afraid and didn't have any problem about it but then in the waking state all of a sudden it's time to ask me a question because of this (makes a clenched fist).

The waking state is habitually bound to the activity of egoity. The dream state is a conditional state. It is filled with conditional appearances positive and negative. Sometimes in the dream state things feel very blissful and amusing even in a very high sense and at other times of course they can be very frightening.

The sleep state never feels any of those things and yet it's not awake in the absolute sense otherwise. It is simply asleep to the binding conditions of the waking and dreaming states. Divine self-realization is to be awake to that which is prior not only to the waking and dreaming state but to the sleeping state as well. It is completely without bondage to any limiting condition inherently so just in sleep you are not inherently bothered by waking state conditions or memories.

You're not bothered by dreams nor diverted by them so in the real state, the state that is already the case, the divine self-condition, there is no fear and nothing to be afraid of. There is no self-contraction. This is worth realizing don't you think?

Apart from that realization, fear is part of the condition you will inevitably experience. You can practice so that you maintain a fundamental equanimity and ability to function without transcending fear absolutely. You should certainly be doing that as a foundational discipline. Instead of worshipping your fear. You must enter profoundly into this process of this Sadhana in order to realize that condition, that perfect condition, that inherently perfect condition in which there simply is no fear, no conditionality, no limiting force of embodiment, no rolling opposites, no opposing states of mind, only the conscious light of divine, inherently divine, of bliss, freedom, the unborn condition which remarkably enough is also the condition now but why isn't it obvious to you, to all here?

It's not merely because you are here. It's because of something you are doing. This is simply a modification of that which is always already the case and only an apparent modification. It's nonbinding and it's unnecessary and does not affect the ultimate condition even now or ever.

It seems to because of a disposition of mind which you are addicted to in the waking state and the entire body mind all its faculties are fixed in the patterning based on that presumption that act. This act is habitual and has patterned your life, controlled your life. Unless sadhana intervenes, not the sadhana of busy self-manipulation. So what truly must intervene is My Very Person Here.

You must recognize me, know I am here being moved to me and have something else to do then rather than all the nonsense of your suffering. To be occupied with the Master is to not be occupied with self, self-contraction, its patterning. Even if.... as I was asked the other evening, you have to go and work on the computer or go on the or count the numbers for the month or whatever. There's nothing about that that you are going to allow to disturb your turning to me.

There's nothing about it that can disturb or limit your turning to me unless you allow it to. So you must find out first of all that I am here and recognize me and must be moved to turn to me and you must by turning to me.... learn the secret of turning to me moment to moment and thereby receiving my constant blessing spiritually you will come to the point where you are immersed in me constantly and ultimately realize me absolutely.

That is the purpose of existence and everything else is suffering.... so do the work necessary that you must do to be my servant and turn to me with all your faculties.... every moment of existence and forget your fear even as everybody else in this room has already forgotten your fear (audience laughter)."

Friend:

Good evening, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti...You have some more mail.

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

I will explain this much - at the ultimate level, if the system alters or upsets a specific biological conduit, the entire ecosystem and life-force of this planet will catastrophically fail and untold evil will be unleashed - there are many souls that are bound to the system, even just a single soul that is enslaved to the matrix will be a cosmic anchor that binds all other species that are related to it, those souls act as slaves for those that feed from the system.

The fear you experience could be another entity that is entrapped in your being, much like the Monsanto Corporation mixed a corn plant with a fish, the result is that fish are incarnated into corn and in essence, another hellish dimension was spawned due to thier ignorance.


For that reason, many whom were hybridised with the system have inadvertantly entrapped countless souls into the matrix dimension.

I recommend that you consult someone who knows about releasing spirits and astral implants.