Oil isn't the problem: at least not a lack of supply: Alt titles: Why oh Why oh Why Not MAKE OIL

Second Version of Article released five years ago
Original article 2003

The History Channel has "Prophets of Doom", everyone talks about peak oil, our country is accused accused (and I don't have a stance on whether the accusation is correct) of invading other countries to control their oil. But we can MAKE OIL.

I did a search and this article has hit here from time to time (last 2008 I think and got zero flags).
A summary:
We have the techonology to create oil out of anything. But, what works best is agriculutural waste. Take the yearly U.S. agricultural waste that is currently a problem filling up landfills and convert it and you come to within 100 barrels of or 2003 yearly demand. The U.S. government was originally a 20 percent founder of the tech company that can do it.

When I first read this article in 2003 I was floored. Oil had just become a renewable resource.
The U.S. could stop filling up its landfills.
The U.S. could accept trash shipped by barge from small European countries that are out of landfill space. We could charge them to take their waste. Then we could sell them back oil. Sweet Texas Crude!
It was truly life changing technology.

And then it seems to have disappeared into the void.
The Butterball plant in the U.S. wanted to charge for their waste rather than have it taken off their hands for free and not have to pay for their trash. That set back the profit margin...but still there's hope right?

Eight years later. EIGHT years. In the world of technology that is eons, and nothing has happened. So who is responsible?
IS it the climate changers who just want us off fossil fuels period?
Is it oil companies that don't want competition?

Somebody is holding back this technology. And I beg all of you to spread the word. Why should we be beholden to foreign countries. From the Middle East to Venezuela, we give money by the barrel (literally) to countries that hate us and snipe at us on every level because of our addiction to oil.

Maybe we should break the addiction.
But in the meantime, why aren't we doing this?

It will take to much oil to produce, you will never get out more than you are putting in.

Think of all the fuel, lubricating oil's, and tires alone that will be used on every vehicle to move just a load of garbage.

If it is from over seas you have vehicles to bring the trash from the dump to the boat the vehicles transfring the garbage to the boat the boat travelling across the ocean under load the vehicles to offload the garbage the vehicles to transport to the facility the vehicles to offlload to the facilty then the huge amounts of energy to transmute garbage to oil.

All of these vehicles take tons of oil.

The tons of oil to make the facility, the tons of oil everyone will burn going to work there and anywhere invovled in the process.

Way to much energy is invested with too little return imho.

I do not know what the solution is, but when you burn energy to make less energy it is pointless.

reply to post by GisfridMaillor


There is energy loss. It is not 100 percent in = 100 percent out. But since the in is trash??? And you can further deduct the energy requirements of the plant from the output, it is still a net gain in oil for the U.S.
Then, let other countries pay us to take their trash and I could see our country's money problems beginning to resolve. Look at the UAE. They went from nomads to seven star hotels and island building in a few decades of oil exporting. It just seems too dumb to me to NOT do this. Even if it isn't perfect and even if it does contribute to global warming, it solves the agricultural waste problem in this country, solves our giving money to other countries, and solves (eventually) some of our financial issues.

reply to post by watcher3339


Because it takes more energy to make the oil than the oil itself would produce. This is physics 101. You cannot get more energy out of something than the amount of energy that went into it. There is always a loss.

In this case we are burning oil to make oil. Which is stupid.

If we had enough alternative energy - say, solar or geothermal - to make this oil, then we wouldn't really need oil, We'd be more efficient just tapping into that alternative source.

Basically the "make more oil" argument amounts to a bunch of yee-haw sorts who just want to "stick it to the hippies" - the same sorts who think we should be drilling for oil in major cities and invading other countries for their oil. Just 'cause the thought of a "Plan B" energy source strikes them as commie pinko hippy faggy bullcrap.

Oil, like coal, is so early 20th century. Ineffective and damaging to the environment.

I wonder why we haven't moved on?

Maybe we should ask Exxon?

reply to post by watcher3339


Ok so what happens when we are halfway through the back up of garbage?

We produce too much and use too much it is a temporary fix.

We will not keep producing oil products to be tossed into the landfill to be made back into oil, that is snake eating itself.

It takes tons of oil to produce a crop too, again to much oil in not enough out.

So you have 100 barrels take it all to make stuff then recycle it, and now you have 80 barrels take it all make stuff now recycle it to oil again now you have 60 barrels get it yet?

Where is this magic oil going to come from that will stop the loss through prodcution and use, you use more oil to make less each time you end up with no oil still.

Originally posted by watcher3339
reply to post by GisfridMaillor

 

There is energy loss. It is not 100 percent in = 100 percent out. But since the in is trash??? And you can further deduct the energy requirements of the plant from the output, it is still a net gain in oil for the U.S.
Then, let other countries pay us to take their trash and I could see our country's money problems beginning to resolve. Look at the UAE. They went from nomads to seven star hotels and island building in a few decades of oil exporting. It just seems too dumb to me to NOT do this. Even if it isn't perfect and even if it does contribute to global warming, it solves the agricultural waste problem in this country, solves our giving money to other countries, and solves (eventually) some of our financial issues.

So the us should gobble up all the worlds supply and let the rest of the world starve and die off, hoping they never think to just hold there oil and garbage and gang up on us?

This is not a political problem this is a problem of the survival of the species, borders, money, none of that matters. We will all die.

You are right oil is not the probelm, our lifestyle is.

Originally posted by GisfridMaillor
reply to post by watcher3339

 

Ok so what happens when we are halfway through the back up of garbage?

.

In 2003 our YEARLY agricultural waste was within 100 barrels or our YEARLY oil consumption.
There is no running through a back up of waste in terms of supplying the U.S. only.
There's plenty of garbage. Garbage that Earth will eventually turn into oil. We just know how to make it happen now instead of a long, long, time from now.

Originally posted by GisfridMaillor

Originally posted by watcher3339
reply to post by GisfridMaillor

 

There is energy loss. It is not 100 percent in = 100 percent out. But since the in is trash??? And you can further deduct the energy requirements of the plant from the output, it is still a net gain in oil for the U.S.
Then, let other countries pay us to take their trash and I could see our country's money problems beginning to resolve. Look at the UAE. They went from nomads to seven star hotels and island building in a few decades of oil exporting. It just seems too dumb to me to NOT do this. Even if it isn't perfect and even if it does contribute to global warming, it solves the agricultural waste problem in this country, solves our giving money to other countries, and solves (eventually) some of our financial issues.

So the us should gobble up all the worlds supply and let the rest of the world starve and die off, hoping they never think to just hold there oil and garbage and gang up on us?

This is not a political problem this is a problem of the survival of the species, borders, money, none of that matters. We will all die.

You are right oil is not the probelm, our lifestyle is.

I agree that our lifestyle is a problem. And, I don't want to sound mean, though I can't think of a really good way to phrase this right now without sounding mean. I am actually a pretty decent person. But, the western world has got to screw its head on straight. We need to start worrying about ourselves.
By this I mean that my heart breaks everytime I see something about a child in another part of the world without medical care or food or whatever. But 20 percent of American children live in poverty. So I start there. I think the western world needs to get over its extremes. We are either invading other people and telling them how to live or metaphorically rocking in a corner overcome with self loathing. The rest of the world is over us and I am over them. Live and let live. It is time to focus on ourselves for everybody's sake!

reply to post by GisfridMaillor
Yes, it would take energy to produce this oil from the waste products, but it would be considered recycling right? So basically your taking a product that would normally be thrown away not to be used for anything and then making it in to oil that would at least relieve some of the pressure on using regular oil. Do you think that oil is just naturally coming out of the ground for the grabbing? Think of all the oil pumps/refineries out there, the boats and trucks required to transport it not to mention the pipe lines, oil rigs (don't forget what happened to the Gulf of Mexico), wars, political turmoil, so on and so forth, all needed for black gold. Think about it.

reply to post by watcher3339


I commend you on your attempt at bringing this topic to light. I too tried something similar a while back and for some reason didn't get much of a response until I basically carried others into the conversation myself. Here is the link to my thread which is full of additional information that may help you in your debate of this subject. Good luck...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by watcher3339


i have downloaded something for everyone that the oil giants really don`t want us all to know.
where is the first quarter profit report that everyone is waiting to see.
most of the big oil companies made 47% more profit in the first 4 months of this year that they did in all of last year.partly due to the fact that they jacked us all around on the price through speculation ,especially when they sold less this year than last as the little 4 banger sales have cost them dearly as to the total amount of oil needed has dropped quite a bit.
and in the daily news 2 weeks ago the head of 1 of these oil giants stood up and said that we would all be paying $1.60 a litre or $6.40 a gallon this summer .

Originally posted by watcher3339

Originally posted by GisfridMaillor
reply to post by watcher3339

 

Ok so what happens when we are halfway through the back up of garbage?

.

In 2003 our YEARLY agricultural waste was within 100 barrels or our YEARLY oil consumption.
There is no running through a back up of waste in terms of supplying the U.S. only.
There's plenty of garbage. Garbage that Earth will eventually turn into oil. We just know how to make it happen now instead of a long, long, time from now.

It takesTONS of oil to produce a crop we cannot prodcue the same amounts forever it is the same problem we use oil to make crops to make oil and it gets smaller everytime. Why? Cause we use tons of oil to make a crop.

Originally posted by GisfridMaillor

Originally posted by watcher3339

Originally posted by GisfridMaillor
reply to post by watcher3339

 

Ok so what happens when we are halfway through the back up of garbage?

.

In 2003 our YEARLY agricultural waste was within 100 barrels or our YEARLY oil consumption.
There is no running through a back up of waste in terms of supplying the U.S. only.
There's plenty of garbage. Garbage that Earth will eventually turn into oil. We just know how to make it happen now instead of a long, long, time from now.

It takesTONS of oil to produce a crop we cannot prodcue the same amounts forever it is the same problem we use oil to make crops to make oil and it gets smaller everytime. Why? Cause we use tons of oil to make a crop.

But then I have to agree with Wanagi: is it somehow better to just bury the waste and get nothing back out of it?
I don't disagree that our lifestyle in general requires changing. It does. But that will take time. This would buy us some.

Originally posted by Wanagi
reply to post by GisfridMaillor

 

Yes, it would take energy to produce this oil from the waste products, but it would be considered recycling right? So basically your taking a product that would normally be thrown away not to be used for anything and then making it in to oil that would at least relieve some of the pressure on using regular oil. Do you think that oil is just naturally coming out of the ground for the grabbing? Think of all the oil pumps/refineries out there, the boats and trucks required to transport it not to mention the pipe lines, oil rigs (don't forget what happened to the Gulf of Mexico), wars, political turmoil, so on and so forth, all needed for black gold. Think about it.

Same problem, how may times can you recycle that bottle and use oil to do it and still get back enough to use.

Think about what? Your last part is what im saying, we are running out of oil and cannot recylce it to keep going, we need to change and ignore the politics and borders.

And for the record I do not think anyone is mean or anything of hte sort here, this has been a pleasent intelligent convo.

We do not have time, we will die out trying to maintian our lifestyle.

We need to just change our minds and try something different.

I do not want to be like the smokers in waterworld or the bandits in the madmax films.

reply to post by GisfridMaillor


This IS a change and is a difference in our lifestyle. This IS an option and a step in the right direction.

Believe me I understand where you're going here, but expecting everything to change so dramatically is NEVER going to happen. Look around you. Do you see people becoming Enlightened at such a rapid rate that a total transformation of lifestyle is even possible??? Does it not seem a little more logical that such a change is going to have to happen in stages???

You can't just hold on to one idea and throw all others away. We need options here and as many as possible at that. Besides, at least what we have here is an actual working idea that is a step in the right direction. Maybe it isn't the single idea which will take care of everything, but it is better than what we're doing now. Plus, what exactly is your plan on how to reach your goal??? I mean we all have ideas about what we'd like the final end result to be, but how many of us can also show the steps to achieving that result???

Do yourself a favor and read this thread...It deals with many of these arguments already....

Thermal Depolymerization is the Energy Crisis Solution by Turning Trash into Treasure
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Wanagi


Which is why peak oil is a concern. Basically all this oil-burning-to-get-the-oil has only been feasible because of how much oil already existed. it's wasteful on a large scale, but the sheer amount being pumped out of the ground kept us in the black (so to speak)

Once the wells start going dry, all of this will become less and less cost-effective. Most governments already subsidize, if not outright own their nations' oil production, thereby keeping the cost deflated, so as the oil levels get lower, the subsidies will have to get higher; demand and supply drives up commercial prices even with subsidies, and eventually the market crashes and the whole enterprise ceases to be even marginally profitable in terms of both energy and wealth.

Making oil from recycled trash is (as has been previously pointed out) nonsense if you are considering burning the oil for energy release.

The worlds energy demands wont be solved by oil. It needs a balance of renewables and nuclear fusion (my money is on the Polywell version but there are other irons in the fire).

However, oil is essential in production of innumerable things in the modern world. Pretty much everything plastic you own needed oil or natural gas as a raw material. With the energy costs solved by another means it allows oil reclamation from previously manufactured products. Extending our ability to manufacture.

It could potentially have a part to play if the energy problem is solved before advances in chemical engineering render petrochemical oil redundant in manufacture.

Using a 1920s process we can turn trash into oil at a cost of about $60 a barrel.
also we can use any organic like sewage. Ag waste ECT ECT.
en.wikipedia.org...

The problem is not that it cost to much BUT it cost to little and would undercut the oil industry.

The oil industry OWNS too many politicians that would block any attempt to set these plant up large scale around the country.

The cost in feeding the trash to these plants would be a lot less then the cost of running landfills.
landfills now have to be lined and have methane collection systems this cost money that goes on for years after the landfill has closed. just like nuclear waste storage.

In many cases cities and towns would just truck there trash to the nearest rail line and the trash would have metal and other items of non organic material removed and compressed and the trash would go to the plant as compressed bails and be dumped for feed.