It's Official: Experts says Barrack Obama's Birth Certificate is a Forged Document

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posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


I know that here in NY a birth certificate is basically worthless in terms of using it to verify one's self. You cannot get a drivers license with a birth certificate. It's actually worth 0 points of ID. Social Security will not accept it either. Even the oroginal with the raised seal. A doctors note on their stationary has more weight than a birth certificate.

Just throwing that in because you're addressing Maya's need for one. I don't think a birth certificate is as valuable a commodity for verifying one's self as much as it used to be. The Social Security card or Drivers License or Passport are the three main points of ID. BC simply shows where you were born, but one cannot get anything done with it.

When my driving privileges were revoked I wanted to get another drivers license when allowed. This was about 5 years ago. I took my old license which had expired, my original BC and a few bills showing my address. DMV told me the old license was worthless and they didn;t want the BC either. The woman told me I needed my SS card, which I'd lost years ago. When I went to SS for new card, I needed a drivers license for a new SS card. They too wanted nothing to do with the BC. I was in a hole as if I didn't exist. The SS office did accept a doctor's note on their letterhead stating I was who I claimed. I found it odd that a note from Dr. Whoever was more valuable than a birth certificate. I was very surprised.
edit on 10-7-2011 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by spinalremain
 


sounds strange.

i have heard of the same problem in other states.

a friend of mine was told the same thing in Nevada by one employee.

He went back the next day and a different employee accepted everything !

New York does state something about BC's;


www.nydmv.state.ny.us...

[color=limegreen]With the increase in requirements for public security, the DMV frequently updates the list of acceptable proofs of identity and date of birth. Carefully read the forms referred to below. Make sure that you have the proof required before you apply for any DMV document.

With the introduction of enhanced driver licenses and enhanced non-driver photo ID cards on September 16, 2008, it is especially important to read and understand these forms. Get complete information about the NYS Enhanced Driver License EDL and Enhanced Non-Driver Photo ID Card (ENDID).

You must have a version number of 7.0 or later of Adobe Acrobat Reader® installed on your computer to use the DMV forms listed on this page. The latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader® is free at the Adobe web site.

Proofs for enhanced driver license (EDLs) and enhanced non-driver photo ID cards (ENDIDs):


Proofs of Identity, U.S. Citizenship and NYS Residence (ID-44EDL)

Certification of Residence (MV-44NYR)

Proofs for regular driver licenses and non-driver photo ID cards:


Proofs of Identity for Learner Permit, Driver License, and Non-Driver ID Card (ID-44)

Other forms used for proof of identity:


Statement of Identity and/or Residence by Parent/Guardian (MV-45)

Statement of Identity and/or Residence for Applicants Represented by Government or Government-Approved Facilities (MV-45A)

Note: If you were born in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Staten Island or Queens, [color=limegreen]you can order a copy of your birth certificate from the Web site of the New York City Office of Vital Records.


makes ya wonder how to get the chicken or the first egg ?



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Yeah It's strange. When I went the woman told me my raised seal original was worthless. She said the DMV does not place any points for BC.

When I first got my license 15 + years ago or so, I did use my BC. The same original one with the seal. At that time is was worth the most points I believe.



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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It's OFFICIAL.

Any post that begins with Its Official

Is anything but OFFICIAL



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
It's OFFICIAL.

Any post that begins with Its Official

Is anything but OFFICIAL


Good stuff! I'd like to think we can add that to death and taxes.
- second line



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by aptness

Your source is right in saying the 14th Amendment didn’t “extend the meaning of natural born citizen,” but fail to understand why that is not significant to their argument, on the contrary, because they fundamentally don’t understand Wong Kim Ark, or don’t want to.

Or, they simply interpret the law differently than you do.


Wong Kim Ark was a citizen, not because of the 14th Amendment, but because of the birthright citizenship principle, of which Section 1 of the 14th Amendment affirms. And by that common law principle Wong Kim Ark was a natural born citizen as well.

Respectfully, again I disagree. I believe this interpretation contradicts the intent our Founders to explain why "natural born" was specifically placed in our Constitution regarding eligibility to be POTUS. This has yet to be ruled on by the U.S. Supreme Court. I am not arguing the majority opinion. I believe that if this case had been Obama (or should I say Barry Soetoro) instead of Wong, the ruling may have had a different outcome. But that is just a semi-educated guess.

I appreciate all of the time you are spending researching, providing the excerpts and educating/enlightening me from the cases we both are using for argument, (as you probably have before to someone else) but it still does not change my opinion. I am not a lawyer. I do not feel qualified to argue the technical legalities and other aspects of law. Shouldn't these legal arguments be discussed on a different thread for those with a better education in law? Are you an attorney? What is your expertise in law? Just curious.

Lets get back on track and stick to the discussion of the legitimacy of the .pdf documents examined by the Adobe professional experts as the OP intended. I have come across a new video that is very interesting. I don't recall it being posted elsewhere. I am neither admitting I am wrong about anything nor am I purposely trying to be deflective, evasive, ignorant or any other adjective you care to choose from.

Most people still are ignorant to the details of this discussion. I am thankful to ATS and hope many are enlightened with the information we have presented in this thread. I don't know how long it will take before the truth prevails and puts an end to this discussion.

Again you will probably argue that a You tube video doesn't provide credible information...

edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: word omission



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by spinalremain
 


Your post was kind of surprising. I checked a site I'd passed to Xuenchen and found you're absolutely right. Apparently, NY uses a points system that sums the individual's ID up to reach an "acceptable" score. However, the BC *is* acceptable as proof of DOB which is another requirement for a NY DL - so I guess there's that...
www.nydmv.state.ny.us...



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by ontarff
This has yet to be ruled on by the U.S. Supreme Court. I am not arguing the majority opinion.
Then I don’t think you understand the majority’s opinion.


I believe that if this case had been Obama (or should I say Barry Soetoro)
You shouldn’t. That was never his legal name. Unless someone has record of this name change?


Are you an attorney? What is your expertise in law? Just curious.
I am lawyer, yes. If you’re really interested you can U2U me about this.


Lets get back on track and stick to the discussion of the legitimacy of the .pdf documents examined by the Adobe professional experts as the OP intended.

The argument by the "experts" suggest the long form posted by the White House was was not the 1961 original document. See forms in right margin HERE
What’s the source of that long form birth certificate, that I assume that blog is claiming is a real original long form certificate?

I remember a time when birthers claimed the Nordyke sisters’ birth certificates were “real and original” 1961 birth certificates. But they don’t look like anything like the form on the blog you linked. The Nordykes’ certificate, in fact, looks exactly the same as Obama’s. You can even see the bent margin on the left as you do in Obama’s.


Again you will probably argue that a You tube video doesn't provide credible information...
I’ve seen that video before. I don’t agree with the analysis. For instance, you can’t really compare the image of the Nordykes’ birth certificates with Obama’s birth certificate because (1) the image is of low quality and resolution and (2) it wasn’t processed as a PDF file.


edit on 10-7-2011 by aptness because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by userid1
 


I understand what you're saying and what the actual site states. That said though, DMV around here is a pretty grueling ordeal. If the woman behind the counter says she isn;t going to accept what you're presenting, then you're SOL. I actually remember specifically almost "losing it" at her window and asked for management or someone above her. That didn't fly well. I was told almost verbatim "Your birth certificate means nothing to us. It's merely a piece of paper which neither proves who you are (no picture), nor shows your current address. You cannot use it as it is worth 0 points." Oddly enough and off topic, I laughed because even though the old license was expired, it was issued by them and did prove who I was. I wasn't intending to use it as a legal document to drive, but it did prove who I was. The expiration date did not magically turn me into a different man. The entire ordeal made me sick to my stomach. My prints are on record and the law can verifiably know who Iam, but for 2 days I couldn't get my license back or a new SS card because according to NYS I wasn't who I said I was. Something is radically wrong with that.
edit on 10-7-2011 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-7-2011 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by spinalremain
 


Ain't bureaucracy grand?



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by userid1
 


Needless to say, my SS card is now under lock and key within a titanium lined crate 60' under my house, hermetically sealed, in a cliamte controlled environment.



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by aptness
 


What’s the source of that long form birth certificate, that I assume that blog is claiming is a real original long form certificate?

The source states

The standard, federal NVSD "Certificate of Live Birth" is the longest standing form of birth documentation in American history. It first appeared after the establishment of the official birth data regions created for vital statistics study by the U.S. Department of Health, Welfare and Education in 1915...

Only the standard, federal NVSD "Certificate of Live Birth" contains the essential data confirming the natural-born status of civilian, vintage Americans. Throughout the entire century of its preeminence, it has always contained the birth place of the parents and the birth place of the bearer along with the name of the facility of birth, the name of the registrar at the time of birth, the name of the director of the state Health department at the time of birth and, most importantly, it contains the identity and signature of the licensed professional qualified to attend, review and provide a medical verification of the characteristics of a "live birth" event, (The latter of these requirements were established during the early 1900's when fetal death would often occur during birth, or shortly thereafter, and require confirmation and recording of a "live birth" before the completion of a "Fetal Death Certificate", which is treated differently than a normal "Death Certificate" in which the vital event (death) is not always witnessed by a licensed professional). Without these components, along with the complete identity, information and metrics of the birth, no alternative form of birth documentation, including the Hawaiian "Certification of Live Birth", is qualified to verify the natural born status of the bearer.

thedailypen.blogspot.com...

I do not have access to the original 1961 DoH BC template, but I would surmise it hasn't changed much since it's inception in 1915. The point that was being made on this source's comparison was that the Hawaii DoH selectively omitted all of the information required on the .pdf that was released from the White House.

I will retract the "kearning" video. I have just seen this


This is corroborated HERE

IBM announces the Electromatic Model 04 electric typewriter, featuring the revolutionary concept of proportional spacing. By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.

edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: additional video added
edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: corroboration
edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: additional off-site text



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by ontarff
 
You do acknowledge it is different from the Nordykes’ certificates? And the Nordykes form is the same as Obama’s?



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by ontarff
 


Is Obama's LFBC a copy of the "microfilm" on file,

or a "produced" copy from "known" information "on file" ?



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by aptness
reply to post by ontarff
 
You do acknowledge it is different from the Nordykes’ certificates? And the Nordykes form is the same as Obama’s?

The forms released for both Obama and the twins are the Hawaiian long form. The NVSD form requires more data. The forms in the earlier link were a comparison of the Hawaiian long form to the NVSD long form (The one we haven't seen). The differences are identified in the Hawaiian long forms are HERE


Still, it remains remarkable that the Hawaii Department of Health and the White House released the Obama birth certificate without the type of authenticating information that appears at the bottom of the Nordyke twins' birth certificates. The SmokingGun.com website notes several additional irregularities with the Obama birth certificate that do not appear on the Nordyke twin's birth certificates.


On another thread you state


The birthers don’t even understand these ‘anomalies’ on the PDF file they discuss ad nauseam have no bearing on their ultimate objective — removing Obama from office. These ‘anomalies’ the birthers cling to are raised by those behind the “delegitimize Obama” movement to keep the birther fire going and sell more Corsi books, but are absolutely irrelevant and immaterial to a legal case. If birthers had their chance in court, or in Congress, to present their ‘evidence,’ do you think any court would look at photos or digital files of a document and not the actual documents themselves? And this why the people that are ultimately behind the birther nonsense don’t hire actual lawyers, but, instead, clowns like Orly Taitz — they just want to keep making noise, and hopefully plant the seeds of doubt in some people, because if a court actually indulged the birthers and decided to rule on the merits, the moment the court evaluated the actual documents that would be the ball game. On one side you have physical certified documents issued by a state of the union and the federal government, and on the other side, as supporting evidence for the forgery claims, the birthers have the self-proclaimed ‘experts’ that upload their ‘analyses’ to Youtube. The fact that some birthers truly believe that with what they have is proof, and they can remove the sitting President of the United States from office, if a court just listened to them and looks at their ‘evidence,’ tells you a lot about their delusion. And the fact that they keep discussing irrelevant and immaterial non-issues tells you how easily fooled, distracted and manipulated they are.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What you fail to state is that the documents in question were released as "proof". Isn't that contradictory to your argument that a court or Congress would not evaluate this discrepancy? Would you agree that forgery is a crime?
edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: additional text
edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: new information
edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: additional information
edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: additional information
edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: additional information
edit on 7/10/2011 by ontarff because: text omitted



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by ontarff
 


Is Obama's LFBC a copy of the "microfilm" on file,

or a "produced" copy from "known" information "on file" ?


I don't know. You would have to ask the Hawaiian DoH who is keeping it a secret.



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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What additional info is required of the released long form that does not appear to conform to NVSD requirements?
What did NVSD do with regards to Hawaii's supposed non-conformance?
edit on 10-7-2011 by userid1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by userid1
What additional info is required of the released long form that does not appear to conform to NVSD requirements?
What did NVSD do with regards to Hawaii's supposed non-conformance?
edit on 10-7-2011 by userid1 because: (no reason given)


That information is identified in the points labeled in the right hand margin HERE

I would surmise that the original hard copy typed 1961 LFBC is the NVSD form. Agree?



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by ontarff
 


Yes, I would *tend* to agree. However, the question still remains - does the typewritten form still in Hawaii's possession conform to NVSD standards or not? If not, then wouldn't the NVSD have forced compliance on Hawaii? Is there any record this ever occurred?

edit on 10-7-2011 by userid1 because: spelling



posted on Jul, 11 2011 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by UcDat
 


Well "That's Easy" revoke all the legislation he signed including the extension of the Patriot Act. Step down let the other guy in "I have for got his name" he is never in the media or even mentioned. We might want to skip over him.....





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