Q and A. Dispelling The Myths And Misnomers Of Christianity.

reply to post by Klassified


Please explain to me how it is possible to clear up misconceptions when I as a fundamental, literally-interpreting Christian believe in a certain manner and there are literally thousands of different stances on interpretation within the Christian community. It is impossible to establish a standard doctrine that will encompass all of Christianity. And as long as this is so, it will appear to the non-Christian community as contradictions and fallacies in our doctrine.

reply to post by Klassified

Because christianity is not based on whether you are a good or bad person.

How about this teaching of Jesus?

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’

Wouldn't this seem to contradict what you said about being good or bad?

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

surly this means - unless they eat the other kind of magic fruit they wouldn't live for ever - so there was death before the fall

edit on 1-7-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)

This verse does not prove death before the fall. In reading it one can see that man now knew good from evil ( the fruit was already eaten). The fall happened the moment they ate. Now, they could not eat from the tree of life.
here is the reference for when death came about;

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

reply to post by jmdewey60


In context, we'll also have to look at verses 15-18 of Matthew 7, which speaks about False Prophets.

I kind of spoke about this already a few posts up - Lukewarm Christians.

Many today will claim to know Christ, yet they will continue in sin because they love this world too much. They will prophesy in his name, and do good deeds, but they are under the impression that grace gives them the right to sin, that they are saved no matter what, and anyone who falls under that impression never repented to begin with, and is not saved.

reply to post by micmerci

You know. You're right. How dare I think that christians such as yourself might want to correct some of the erroneous garbage that gets spewed on ATS about christianity on a regular basis. It was a stupid idea to think maybe I could help dispell some of those wild ideas, and give people at least a slightly better understanding of what you folks actually believe. And what the bible actually says about a given topic. And how arrogant of me to think christians might want a say in a thread like this. But instead, you'd rather shoot it down than to take advantage of it.

Well, you've convinced me to shutup. It's an error I won't repeat. I'm happy to let people continue believing those errors if you are.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Scripture seems to have many contradictions if one does not "rightly divide" it. The answer to this seeming contradiction is dispensations. The dispensation at the time of the writing of Matthew was the Law Dispensation. Matthew was written to the Jews to prove that Jesus was in fact the Messiah. So, in short that verse is not directed to Christians under the dispensational period of Grace.

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Klassified

 

Please explain to me how it is possible to clear up misconceptions when I as a fundamental, literally-interpreting Christian believe in a certain manner and there are literally thousands of different stances on interpretation within the Christian community. It is impossible to establish a standard doctrine that will encompass all of Christianity. And as long as this is so, it will appear to the non-Christian community as contradictions and fallacies in our doctrine.

This is a reasonable point. But there are still a lot of erroneous ideas out there that noone that I've ever known believes.

reply to post by jmdewey60

No. Because the will of the father first and foremost is that you receive eternal life through Christ. Which can be neither earned nor purchased. It is the gift of God.

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I don't think most people understand what OP is getting at here. There may be thousands of different interpretations of the Bible, but when you come down to it, many of these interpretations contradict something else in the Bible.

Some will say, "Well I believe in most of everything in the Bible, except that I think everyone goes to Heaven, there is no Hell"

That's an interpretation, it's also a contradiction, because the Bible also clearly states that only those who accept Jesus will go to Heaven, the rest will perish.

This, "universal" stance (if you want to call it that) that OP is taking, is simply the most literal, non-contradictory stance anyone can take.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Wouldn't this seem to contradict what you said about being good or bad?

The "that Day" Jesus is speaking of is the day of judgment, those in Christ do not go to that judgment. There is no condemnation for those in Jesus Christ who are the called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:1) there are two judgments, the "Great White Throne Judgment", which Christ is speaking of. And the "Judgment Seat" or "Behma Seat Judgment of Christ". Christians go to the Bhema judgment for the reward or loss of crowns for faithful service as a Christian.

Secondly, EVERYONE will bow to their knee and affirm Jesus is Lord at the Great White Throne Judgment. EVERYONE will call Him Lord on that day, from Cain to the last man who dies prior to the Judgment. Lastly, the person Jesus is prophesying about only lists what he did, he mentions nothing about what Christ did for him, only lists his own works.

reply to post by Klassified


1 Thessalonians 5:21
PROVE all things; hold fast that which is good.
Please forgive me for following this commandment from God rather than just taking you at your word. Maybe I should not have tested your position or true intentions and possibly allowed false teaching to lead some astray. Not that I am saying that this is what you are doing, but isn't it a possibility? How can an atheist enlighten others on Christian principles? Satan comes as an angel of light. All heresy contains some element of truth. It would be irresponsible of me as a Christian not to test your doctrine.

reply to post by micmerci

. . .that verse is not directed to Christians. . .

That is the strangest answer I have heard about that. Did you even read the verses I quoted? He is talking (this is Jesus, you know that, right?) about people who believe in Jesus and in his name preach and do miracles. How could he not be talking about Christians? So, now there are no standards whatsoever in how we need to conduct our behaviour? Jesus pointed out that there was a standard and in fact it was much higher than what was being taught by the Pharisees. Did that all go away? Jesus said, Heaven and Earth will pass away but my words will endure beyond them.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Matthew’s intended audience was his fellow Jews, many of whom—especially the Pharisees and Sadducees—stubbornly refused to accept Jesus as their Messiah. In spite of centuries of reading and studying the Old Testament, their eyes were blinded to the truth of who Jesus was. Jesus rebuked them for their hard hearts and their refusal to recognize the One they had supposedly been waiting for (John 5:38-40). They wanted a Messiah on their own terms, one who would fulfill their own desires and do what they wanted Him to do.
Unless you understand dispensationalism of scripture, you will find many answers to be strange and seemingly contradictory.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY dividing the word of truth.
Why would there be a verse in scripture talking about dividing the word? Because of dispensation. Some parts of scripture are written to Jews, some to church age Christians, Some to tribulation time people, some to millennial people, etc.
I suggest a brief study in dispensationalism; it will clear up many seemingly contradictions.

reply to post by Klassified

No. Because the will of the father first and foremost is that you receive eternal life through Christ.

What does this mean?

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Is it the main duty of those in heaven to accept salvation, or is this referring to something else, which involves doing something other than just a mental assent to a concept?

reply to post by Lionhearte

Thank you. You got the idea.

reply to post by jmdewey60

How could he not be talking about Christians?

Because Christians are not present at the Great White Throne Judgment. That occurs at the end of His 1,000 year reign on Earth. Christians appear before the Behma seat judgment for the reward or loss of crowns.

So, now there are no standards whatsoever in how we need to conduct our behaviour?

The "standards" are the two commandments Jesus gave, love God and love all people. Romans 6:1-2 clarifies the false notion that we can continue to live in unrepentant sin. Rewards are on the line with the life of a Christian, justification is not, that's granted by grace on the merits of Christ.

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Klassified

 

1 Thessalonians 5:21
PROVE all things; hold fast that which is good.
Please forgive me for following this commandment from God rather than just taking you at your word. Maybe I should not have tested your position or true intentions and possibly allowed false teaching to lead some astray. Not that I am saying that this is what you are doing, but isn't it a possibility? How can an atheist enlighten others on Christian principles? Satan comes as an angel of light. All heresy contains some element of truth. It would be irresponsible of me as a Christian not to test your doctrine.

The problem is that it is being allowed everyday. Right here. And it should have been christians that started a thread such as this. Not an old rusty ex-christian who has to think harder these days to remember verses I used to rattle off easily.

But as I said. I saw a need, and thought maybe some christians might jump on board, and even correct me if need be. As well as answer some questions I may not know. I do not fault you for doing what a good christian should do. But I do feel the thread was derailed in the process. No biggy though. Peace.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by Q:1984A:1776

 

How I personally would respond is not the topic of the thread. How a christian would respond might be that God created all that exists, and can do with it as he pleases. In other words, even christians don't completely understand why God chose to do some things.

That is exactly the answer I assume I would get from any Christian even willing to ponder the question. Any person who has knowledge of the verses of which I spoke, and still supports Judaism and/or Christianity, is in effect saying that they condone rape. It is as simple as that. There is no other way to interpret those verses. God says that the punishment for raping a woman who isn't owned by another man, is to have to marry her and never be able to divorce her. Either your god is evil and hates women, or a bunch of woman hating men wrote the book without any divine inspiration. Choose one. If you still believe what you believe, you sicken me.

Edit to add: By "you" I didn't mean you, Klassified, I was referring to the hypothetical Christian answering that question.

reply to post by micmerci

Because of dispensation.

And this is found where . . in the Bible?
There was an old system which involved animal sacrifice, and the instructions on how to do the rituals was spelled out in the greater body of what was called "the law". That system was replaced by a new system which looks to Jesus and his work as a propitiation for our sins, to replace the blood of goats and bulls.
There is a fundamental code of moral behaviour, written or unwritten which is based on a universal law which applies to things above and things below, which is not affected by the change in covenants or dispensations.
As for "dispensationalism", I believe it to be the work of Satan and the place to look if one was to wonder who or what the "false prophet" of Revelation is referring to.

reply to post by Klassified


As much as my heart wants to team up with you-
2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not UNEQUALLY YOKED together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

This tells me I cannot.